Philosophy Now Forum

Advocate wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:16 pm a persistent pattern of anger, argumentativeness, or vindictiveness

First, it says 1-15% of kids have it. That's not even a statistic, that's a guess. Also, if 15% of kids have it is not a disorder, but a character trait. Onward.

None of those the things is the same or inherently related to the other two. A person may be consistently angry due to external circumstances that force them out of a more authentic calmer personality. To be argumentative can mean as little as that the kid is intelligent and sees how adults constantly lie to each other, quite the opposite of a disorder, except in how intelligence is a dis-ease in an unintelligent society. Vindictiveness implies there's something specific for the person to get revenge for, which could be a search for justice, quite the opposite of a mental disorder, except in how wanting justice is a dis-ease in a complacent society.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:48 pm I assess this new "disorder" and espacially your personal attitude towards it would have made the gulags of Soviet Russia green with envy.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 10:27 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:48 pm I assess this new "disorder" and espacially your personal attitude towards it would have made the gulags of Soviet Russia green with envy.

Keep one thing in mind, Sculptor. You don't know me and you don't know what my attitude is toward oppositional defiance disorder.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 5:18 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 10:27 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:48 pm I assess this new "disorder" and espacially your personal attitude towards it would have made the gulags of Soviet Russia green with envy.

Keep one thing in mind, Sculptor. You don't know me and you don't know what my attitude is toward oppositional defiance disorder.

Keep one thing is mind, the phrase: methinks he doth protest too much.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:50 am Here are the symptoms in children:

https://psychcentral.com/disorders/oppo ... -symptoms/

Apparently it can drag into adulthood too:

https://www.additudemag.com/screener-op ... st-adults/ (My favorite from the symptom questionnaire: "I can’t stand authority figures. Fight the power!")

I wonder, is there a line between being fiercely independent minded and having "defiance disorder"? I also wonder if any of the great thinkers in history would fall into this category; Galileo, for example? What about Anarchist, Noam Chomsky?

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:16 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:50 am Here are the symptoms in children:

https://psychcentral.com/disorders/oppo ... -symptoms/

Apparently it can drag into adulthood too:

https://www.additudemag.com/screener-op ... st-adults/ (My favorite from the symptom questionnaire: "I can’t stand authority figures. Fight the power!")

I wonder, is there a line between being fiercely independent minded and having "defiance disorder"? I also wonder if any of the great thinkers in history would fall into this category; Galileo, for example? What about Anarchist, Noam Chomsky?

The latter is generally pretty polite and rational and few would diagnose him that way. But point taken.
If you define just on behavior and attitude without context you will end up pathologizing healthy behavior, moral behavior, natural reactions, etc.

I can imagine the slaveowners diagnosing african slaves they had to give the whip to more often and considering themselves progressive.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Apr 11, 2022 12:12 am It seems like psychologists, for job security, like to label anyone who doesn't adhere to their program as having some kind of disorder. Not to say that there aren't people with truly bad behavior out there. But I figure if a person isn't committing some great crime, then it's not worth "diagnosing" them with anything other than being human. the regime of "health" makes us all "sick" for its own benefit.