godelian wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 8:04 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 7:30 am
On a voluntarily basis, I agree Christianity cannot readily convert Jews or Muslims or vice-versa because of the hatred between them is so doctrinally embedded in their holy texts.
It is not about hatred. It is about the fact that the alternative usually does not bring enough new material to the table.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 7:30 am
At present, the conversions by Christians to Muslims and vice-versa is going on, but the numbers are not significant; there is no mass conversions [>50K, 100K] going like the past.
There has never been "mass conversion". It has always been about a small stream. However, over 1400 years, the results are very visible.
There is no immediate 'mass' conversion.
Rather, large number [10K, 50k, 100k] of conversion within 10-20 or 50 years relative to 1400 years is sort of a 'mass' conversions.
When Muslims conquer lands in the past, they strictly follow God's command,
1. Convert, or
2. Be a dhimmi, pay taxes or
3. die [immediately or soon].
During M attacks, many were massacred.
E.g. 700 men of the Banu Qurayza were executed for some reason but fundamentally because the book sanctioned the killing of non-Muslims upon the slightest threats.
This is what happened with the deliberately and intentional massacres of with Oct7, 911. those of ISIS and others which are sanctioned by God in the holy book.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 7:30 am
But Muslims are also pragmatic as in the above case, i.e. they want to collect taxes [protection money] like parasites as done in the past, maybe at present as well.
The Ottoman empire collected taxes to pay for its armies. If Christians did not want to pay the military exemption tax, they could join the army, but they almost never did. In fact, the situation became eventually even more ridiculous. The Ottoman empire collected taxes from Christians to pay for other Christians who had joined the army. Another problem was of course that Muslims were also increasingly dodging conscription.
The Ottoman empire collected taxes from Christians to pay for other Christians who had joined the army
to kill Christians and others???
Surely those Christians who had no better choices, would not have volunteered freely to join the army.
Not paying taxes or join the Army is under the pressure of coercion or die if otherwise.
The religion itself is very oppressive on non-believers and its is preferable they all die if given the opportunity.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 7:30 am
But look at what happened to Lebanon now when it is infested with fundamentalist Islamists who obey and rule by the Book to ensure their salvation.
The problems in Lebanon are caused by the proximity of the Zionist occupation. Originally, the Palestinian liberation forces attacked out of Lebanon, which triggered the Zionists into occupying southern Lebanon, which in turn triggered the population of southern Lebanon to set up Hezbollah as to expel the Zionists.
The above is not true?
Christians were the majority in Lebanon.
The stupid Christians majority government took pity on the Palestinian Muslims and accepted a large number of them as refugees, when Jordan and others did not want them.
Later those snakes bit the Christians and they were kick out of Lebanon.
see the Story from BRIGITTE GABRIEL, a Lebanese.
HOW ISLAMISTS OVERRAN MY COUNTRY LEBANON - BRIGITTE GABRIEL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhiytelX6-A
Do you have a counter to the above?
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 7:30 am
Once there was a large population of Christians in Eygpt
You did not seem to have read what Nassim Taleb wrote on exactly this subject. For 1400 years, the Muslims out-stubborned the Christians with regards to the religion of the offspring of interfaith marriage. That is what turned the Christian Copts into a minority in Egypt.
I understand Nassim Taleb's point, but I do not agree with it.
There are many factors to be taken into account how the Muslims became the majority in Eygpt, Lebanon and elsewhere.
It is because the religions is oppressive, domineering and has a superiority complex [like the Nazi] that it insist the non-believer spouse must convert to many a Muslim without understanding the eventual negative consequences to their original religion and cultures.
That was happened in Egypt, in the early days, the Christians were oppressed, threatened with violence, there was political pressure [to get employed, do business, etc.]; generally they gravitate towards Islam to gain favor and peace, the interfaith marriage effect then took over the next generations to reduce the Christians to 10% at present.
The above effects were based on the fact that the majority of Muslims and non-Muslims [more so] are very ignorant of the true-nature of the religion of Islam.
The
religious clerics who studied their religions
their whole life is well aware of the whole truth of their religion but merely disseminate what is appropriate for the masses [& non-believers] while subtly pushing forward the hidden agenda in accordance to the commands of God.
The exceptions are the extremists Islamist who follow the exact doctrines in the book.
The evil acts and demands of the extremists Islamists are 99% in accordance to the commands of the ONLY God.
The extremists Islamists are taught by their clerics who had studied the religion their whole life.
No pious Muslims would dare to go against their God's command, else they would have sinned and sent to Hell on Judgment Day.
Show me proofs [in the whole context of the holy book] that the very-evil acts committed by extremist Islamists [911, ISIS, Oct7] are against the words of God?