Islamic expansionism does not work the way you probably thinks it works

[godelian]

Of course, anyone that remains a Muslim after reading what a disgusting evil ideology it is, and cannot see through the bullshit from MorHamMad as if he ever had any divine intervention (apart from his death bed - then most definitely God intervened) ---- is an idiot.

You have to learn one thing which will save you a lot of wasted time and energy: Christians cannot convert Muslims (or the other way around). Atheists cannot either. You can spit whatever bullshit out of your foul mouth about Islam, we do not even hear it. Seriously, we cannot hear you. What were you saying? I can't hear you!

You still didn't answer my question:- Again, why do Muslims force non-muslims (such as Jews and Christians and Hindus - ALL of which had DIVINE influence) to indoctrinate their children into Islam?

Teaching Islam to the next generation, is the core of Islamic expansionism. You finally understand how it works. I hope that you finally seem to understand that Muslims are not interested in converting the current generation. It is a waste of time. It does not work. Therefore, expansionism is about the next generation and not about the current one.

Why cannot there be a decision to have a child with a Muslim where the child can learn about love and God rather than hate and war?

No. Out of the question. If you marry a Muslim, your spouse will consistently and decisively out-stubborn you concerning the religion of the children. Take it or leave it. If you don't like that, then why do you even try to marry a Muslim? For heaven's sake, why don't you marry someone else instead? Marriage is a contract. If you do sign up, you already know beforehand what the terms and conditions are concerning the religion of the children. Take it or leave it.

[attofishpi]

Of course, anyone that remains a Muslim after reading what a disgusting evil ideology it is, and cannot see through the bullshit from MorHamMad as if he ever had any divine intervention (apart from his death bed - then most definitely God intervened) ---- is an idiot.

You have to learn one thing which will save you a lot of wasted time and energy: Christians cannot convert Muslims (or the other way around). Atheists cannot either.

You are not too bright are you? Of course people can change their minds about things (both ways). I thought u were an example of that!

You can spit whatever bullshit out of your foul mouth about Islam, we do not even hear it. Seriously, we cannot hear you. What were you saying? I can't hear you!

Muslims do hear, but they hate what they hear...intellectual discussion about their pedophile warlord is not permitted.

You still didn't answer my question:- Again, why do Muslims force non-muslims (such as Jews and Christians and Hindus - ALL of which had DIVINE influence) to indoctrinate their children into Islam?

Teaching Islam to the next generation, is the core of Islamic expansionism. You finally understand how it works. I hope that you finally seem to understand that Muslims are not interested in converting the current generation. It is a waste of time. It does not work. Therefore, expansionism is about the next generation and not about the current one.

"Islamic Expansionism" = ---> world Caliphate. Interesting that GODs divine language English has CalipHATE ending in HATE.

Why cannot there be a decision to have a child with a Muslim where the child can learn about love and God rather than hate and war?

No. Out of the question. If you marry a Muslim, your spouse will consistently and decisively out-stubborn you concerning the religion of the children. Take it or leave it. If you don't like that, then why do you even try to marry a Muslim?

I would never marry a Muslim - they should not be part of a democratic society in my opinion, for very obvious reasons.

For heaven's sake, why don't you marry someone else instead? Marriage is a contract. If you do sign up, you already know beforehand what the terms and conditions are concerning the religion of the children. Take it or leave it.

Er, Islam is NO religion since ALL the major world religions had some divinity involved - your pedophile warlord had NOTHING from God (until his death bed )


Just out of interest, why were you drawn to Islam as a religion?

[godelian]

Of course people can change their minds about things (both ways). I thought u were an example of that!

I first came to the conclusion that the western system of marriage and divorce is a scam. Next, I saw that Christianity used to have a viable system but utterly failed to defend it. Next, I understood that Islam was willing to defend their system.

That was the starting point of my journey into Islam.

I gradually discovered that Islam is very consistent and a correct continuation of the religion of Abraham and Christ, which is in turn, a correct expression of our true nature, our biological preprogramming.

The West will collapse, if only, because anti-natalism is self-defeating. The laws of nature guarantee that anti-natalist populations will get replaced by natalist ones. That is what is currently going on in the UK. Nature is systematically replacing the anti-natalists, because anti-natalists have no long-term right to exist.

[attofishpi]

Of course people can change their minds about things (both ways). I thought u were an example of that!

I first came to the conclusion that the western system of marriage and divorce is a scam. Next, I saw that Christianity used to have a viable system but utterly failed to defend it. Next, I understood that Islam was willing to defend their system.

That was the starting point of my journey into Islam.

So, you liked the 'fight' aspect to Islam.

I gradually discovered that Islam is very consistent and a correct continuation of the religion of Abraham and Christ, which is in turn, a correct expression of our true nature, our biological preprogramming.

No, MorHamMad - 600 years after ACTUAL divinity stole ideas from Judaism and Christianity. He certainly followed NOTHING in the teachings of Christ himself - as a pedophile warlord he is polar opposite to the teachings of Christ.

The West will collapse, if only, because anti-natalism is self-defeating. The laws of nature guarantee that anti-natalist populations will get replaced by natalist ones. That is what is currently going on in the UK. Nature is systematically replacing the anti-natalists, because anti-natalists have no long-term right to exist.

Actually the Christian nations will never 'collapse'. The best you can hope for if ever the power of the West is stretched is for "Communist" Chinese atheism to usurp SE Asia.

You are very sad. Of all the religions on the planet that clearly were inspired in various cultures by the GOD that I KNOW exists - you chose the one of WAR, CONVERSION, HATE --- which clearly had nothing to do with Divine God. Indeed, one that still endorses pedophilia SO contrary to Christ's teaching about care for children. You are clearly intellectually defunct in some way to turn your back on the CREATORS LOVE for us ALL as equals...to base your belief in a 7th Century warlord.

[Age]

Of course people can change their minds about things (both ways). I thought u were an example of that!

I first came to the conclusion that the western system of marriage and divorce is a scam. Next, I saw that Christianity used to have a viable system but utterly failed to defend it. Next, I understood that Islam was willing to defend their system.

That was the starting point of my journey into Islam.

So, you liked the 'fight' aspect to Islam.

I gradually discovered that Islam is very consistent and a correct continuation of the religion of Abraham and Christ, which is in turn, a correct expression of our true nature, our biological preprogramming.

No, MorHamMad - 600 years after ACTUAL divinity stole ideas from Judaism and Christianity. He certainly followed NOTHING in the teachings of Christ himself - as a pedophile warlord he is polar opposite to the teachings of Christ.

The West will collapse, if only, because anti-natalism is self-defeating. The laws of nature guarantee that anti-natalist populations will get replaced by natalist ones. That is what is currently going on in the UK. Nature is systematically replacing the anti-natalists, because anti-natalists have no long-term right to exist.

Actually the Christian nations will never 'collapse'. The best you can hope for if ever the power of the West is stretched is for "Communist" Chinese atheism to usurp SE Asia.

You are very sad. Of all the religions on the planet that clearly were inspired in various cultures by the GOD that I KNOW exists - you chose the one of WAR, CONVERSION, HATE --- which clearly had nothing to do with Divine God. Indeed, one that still endorses pedophilia SO contrary to Christ's teaching about care for children. You are clearly intellectually defunct in some way to turn your back on the CREATORS LOVE for us ALL as equals...to base your belief in a 7th Century warlord.

Lol "attofishpi", it is your very own hero, that is; "British law", which permits and promotes having sex with children.

you live in such 'olden days', and worse still you keep promoting here those very abusive, Wrong, and outdated laws, as though they are the good and right ones.

you have so much more to learn, and understand, here"attofishpi".

[attofishpi]

I first came to the conclusion that the western system of marriage and divorce is a scam. Next, I saw that Christianity used to have a viable system but utterly failed to defend it. Next, I understood that Islam was willing to defend their system.

That was the starting point of my journey into Islam.

So, you liked the 'fight' aspect to Islam.

I gradually discovered that Islam is very consistent and a correct continuation of the religion of Abraham and Christ, which is in turn, a correct expression of our true nature, our biological preprogramming.

No, MorHamMad - 600 years after ACTUAL divinity stole ideas from Judaism and Christianity. He certainly followed NOTHING in the teachings of Christ himself - as a pedophile warlord he is polar opposite to the teachings of Christ.

The West will collapse, if only, because anti-natalism is self-defeating. The laws of nature guarantee that anti-natalist populations will get replaced by natalist ones. That is what is currently going on in the UK. Nature is systematically replacing the anti-natalists, because anti-natalists have no long-term right to exist.

Actually the Christian nations will never 'collapse'. The best you can hope for if ever the power of the West is stretched is for "Communist" Chinese atheism to usurp SE Asia.

You are very sad. Of all the religions on the planet that clearly were inspired in various cultures by the GOD that I KNOW exists - you chose the one of WAR, CONVERSION, HATE --- which clearly had nothing to do with Divine God. Indeed, one that still endorses pedophilia SO contrary to Christ's teaching about care for children. You are clearly intellectually defunct in some way to turn your back on the CREATORS LOVE for us ALL as equals...to base your belief in a 7th Century warlord.

Lol "attofishpi", it is your very own hero, that is; "British law", which permits and promotes having sex with children.

16 is the legal age in British law - that is NOT pedophilia.

UNLIKE Islam where pedophilia IS permitted (idiot).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia
Pedophilia (alternatively spelled paedophilia) is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children.[1][2]: vii  Although girls typically begin the process of puberty at age 10 or 11, and boys at age 11 or 12,[3] psychiatric diagnostic criteria for pedophilia extend the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13.[4] People with the disorder are often referred to as pedophiles (or paedophiles).

[godelian]

Actually the Christian nations will never 'collapse'. The best you can hope for if ever the power of the West is stretched is for "Communist" Chinese atheism to usurp SE Asia.

Christianity has collapsed already. It has failed to defend itself. Instead, it embraced the degeneracy of its detractors.

[attofishpi]

Actually the Christian nations will never 'collapse'. The best you can hope for if ever the power of the West is stretched is for "Communist" Chinese atheism to usurp SE Asia.

Christianity has collapsed already.

Lol! - where is your evidence?

It has failed to defend itself.

As the ultimate DIVINE truth, it never really needed to. REAL_IT_Y is a convoluted apparition of the Truth.

Instead, it embraced the degeneracy of its detractors.

Well, Islam and Muslims that believe in its doctrine are truly the most degenerate form of humans that ever disgraced God's good planet.

[Age]

So, you liked the 'fight' aspect to Islam.




No, MorHamMad - 600 years after ACTUAL divinity stole ideas from Judaism and Christianity. He certainly followed NOTHING in the teachings of Christ himself - as a pedophile warlord he is polar opposite to the teachings of Christ.




Actually the Christian nations will never 'collapse'. The best you can hope for if ever the power of the West is stretched is for "Communist" Chinese atheism to usurp SE Asia.

You are very sad. Of all the religions on the planet that clearly were inspired in various cultures by the GOD that I KNOW exists - you chose the one of WAR, CONVERSION, HATE --- which clearly had nothing to do with Divine God. Indeed, one that still endorses pedophilia SO contrary to Christ's teaching about care for children. You are clearly intellectually defunct in some way to turn your back on the CREATORS LOVE for us ALL as equals...to base your belief in a 7th Century warlord.

Lol "attofishpi", it is your very own hero, that is; "British law", which permits and promotes having sex with children.

16 is the legal age in British law - that is NOT pedophilia.
Here is another prime example.of how and when one tries to 'justify' their obviously Wrong, closed, and/or distorted thinking.

"attofishpi" is now saying and claiming that it is perfectly all right and okay for adults to be having sex with some children.

Next "attofishpi" will be saying and claiming that this, totally distorted and Wrong, law and custom, of theses "british people", should be accepted and followed by other countries, and cultures as well.

UNLIKE Islam where pedophilia IS permitted (idiot).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia
Pedophilia (alternatively spelled paedophilia) is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children.[1][2]: vii  Although girls typically begin the process of puberty at age 10 or 11, and boys at age 11 or 12,[3] psychiatric diagnostic criteria for pedophilia extend the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13.[4] People with the disorder are often referred to as pedophiles (or paedophiles).

"attofishpi" is admitting that it is alright for it and other adults to have sex with some children, just as long as "attofishpi" and the "british government" give prior approval first.

Adult human beings, back in the 'old days', when this was being written, would try to go to 'all and any lengths' to try to 'justify' their, obviously, Wrong views and beliefs.

As "attofishpi" keeps showing and proving here

[attofishpi]

Lol "attofishpi", it is your very own hero, that is; "British law", which permits and promotes having sex with children.

16 is the legal age in British law - that is NOT pedophilia.

"attofishpi" is now saying and claiming that it is perfectly all right and okay for adults to be having sex with some children.

I am not saying it is perfectly ok for an ADULT to have sex with a 16 year old. In fact most British people frown up ADULTS partaking in what is legally ok in Britain. However, a 17 year old boy having sex with a 16 year old girl is perfectly fine in MY opinion.

UNLIKE Islam where pedophilia IS permitted (idiot).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia
Pedophilia (alternatively spelled paedophilia) is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children.[1][2]: vii  Although girls typically begin the process of puberty at age 10 or 11, and boys at age 11 or 12,[3] psychiatric diagnostic criteria for pedophilia extend the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13.[4] People with the disorder are often referred to as pedophiles (or paedophiles).

AGAIN:- Where is your EVIDENCE that I am a PEDOPHILE?

[Veritas Aequitas]

On a voluntarily basis, I agree Christianity cannot readily convert Jews or Muslims or vice-versa because of the hatred between them is so doctrinally embedded in their holy texts.

It is not about hatred. It is about the fact that the alternative usually does not bring enough new material to the table.

At present, the conversions by Christians to Muslims and vice-versa is going on, but the numbers are not significant; there is no mass conversions [>50K, 100K] going like the past.

There has never been "mass conversion". It has always been about a small stream. However, over 1400 years, the results are very visible.

There is no immediate 'mass' conversion.
Rather, large number [10K, 50k, 100k] of conversion within 10-20 or 50 years relative to 1400 years is sort of a 'mass' conversions.

When Muslims conquer lands in the past, they strictly follow God's command,
1. Convert, or
2. Be a dhimmi, pay taxes or
3. die [immediately or soon].

During M attacks, many were massacred.
E.g. 700 men of the Banu Qurayza were executed for some reason but fundamentally because the book sanctioned the killing of non-Muslims upon the slightest threats.
This is what happened with the deliberately and intentional massacres of with Oct7, 911. those of ISIS and others which are sanctioned by God in the holy book.

But Muslims are also pragmatic as in the above case, i.e. they want to collect taxes [protection money] like parasites as done in the past, maybe at present as well.

The Ottoman empire collected taxes to pay for its armies. If Christians did not want to pay the military exemption tax, they could join the army, but they almost never did. In fact, the situation became eventually even more ridiculous. The Ottoman empire collected taxes from Christians to pay for other Christians who had joined the army. Another problem was of course that Muslims were also increasingly dodging conscription.

The Ottoman empire collected taxes from Christians to pay for other Christians who had joined the army to kill Christians and others???
Surely those Christians who had no better choices, would not have volunteered freely to join the army.

Not paying taxes or join the Army is under the pressure of coercion or die if otherwise.
The religion itself is very oppressive on non-believers and its is preferable they all die if given the opportunity.

But look at what happened to Lebanon now when it is infested with fundamentalist Islamists who obey and rule by the Book to ensure their salvation.

The problems in Lebanon are caused by the proximity of the Zionist occupation. Originally, the Palestinian liberation forces attacked out of Lebanon, which triggered the Zionists into occupying southern Lebanon, which in turn triggered the population of southern Lebanon to set up Hezbollah as to expel the Zionists.

The above is not true?

Christians were the majority in Lebanon.
The stupid Christians majority government took pity on the Palestinian Muslims and accepted a large number of them as refugees, when Jordan and others did not want them.
Later those snakes bit the Christians and they were kick out of Lebanon.
see the Story from BRIGITTE GABRIEL, a Lebanese.

HOW ISLAMISTS OVERRAN MY COUNTRY LEBANON - BRIGITTE GABRIEL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhiytelX6-A

Do you have a counter to the above?

Once there was a large population of Christians in Eygpt

You did not seem to have read what Nassim Taleb wrote on exactly this subject. For 1400 years, the Muslims out-stubborned the Christians with regards to the religion of the offspring of interfaith marriage. That is what turned the Christian Copts into a minority in Egypt.

I understand Nassim Taleb's point, but I do not agree with it.
There are many factors to be taken into account how the Muslims became the majority in Eygpt, Lebanon and elsewhere.

It is because the religions is oppressive, domineering and has a superiority complex [like the Nazi] that it insist the non-believer spouse must convert to many a Muslim without understanding the eventual negative consequences to their original religion and cultures.

That was happened in Egypt, in the early days, the Christians were oppressed, threatened with violence, there was political pressure [to get employed, do business, etc.]; generally they gravitate towards Islam to gain favor and peace, the interfaith marriage effect then took over the next generations to reduce the Christians to 10% at present.

The above effects were based on the fact that the majority of Muslims and non-Muslims [more so] are very ignorant of the true-nature of the religion of Islam.
The religious clerics who studied their religions their whole life is well aware of the whole truth of their religion but merely disseminate what is appropriate for the masses [& non-believers] while subtly pushing forward the hidden agenda in accordance to the commands of God.

The exceptions are the extremists Islamist who follow the exact doctrines in the book.
The evil acts and demands of the extremists Islamists are 99% in accordance to the commands of the ONLY God.
The extremists Islamists are taught by their clerics who had studied the religion their whole life.
No pious Muslims would dare to go against their God's command, else they would have sinned and sent to Hell on Judgment Day.

Show me proofs [in the whole context of the holy book] that the very-evil acts committed by extremist Islamists [911, ISIS, Oct7] are against the words of God?

[godelian]

2. Be a dhimmi, pay taxes or

or join the army.

Nobody wanted to do military service. Not the Christians. In fact, also not the Muslims. So, how to run a state in which nobody wants to be in the army?

Not paying taxes or join the Army is under the pressure of coercion or die if otherwise.

The state needs a military. This problem cannot be solved by merely complaining about it.

I understand Nassim Taleb's point, but I do not agree with it.

Well, I mostly do.

[Veritas Aequitas]

2. Be a dhimmi, pay taxes or

or join the army.
Nobody wanted to do military service. Not the Christians. In fact, also not the Muslims. So, how to run a state in which nobody wants to be in the army?

Not paying taxes or join the Army is under the pressure of coercion or die if otherwise.

The state needs a military. This problem cannot be solved by merely complaining about it.

My general moral position is, there should be ZERO wars.
But due to the current psychological and evolutionary state of the majority of humans, wars will unavoidably happened.

In general, a percentile [%] citizens of a country in the absence of force, coercion or laws are willing to join the army voluntarily upon various reasons [employment, loyalty, patriotism -in a declared war, as missionaries, etc.]

But in general the Christians who are conquered by Muslims could not have joined the Muslim army voluntarily but rather are being forced into the situation due to oppressive factors and pressures by the majority Muslims.

I understand Nassim Taleb's point, but I do not agree with it.

Well, I mostly do.

You did blindly and not thinking widely and deeply.

[Age]

16 is the legal age in British law - that is NOT pedophilia.

"attofishpi" is now saying and claiming that it is perfectly all right and okay for adults to be having sex with some children.

I am not saying it is perfectly ok for an ADULT to have sex with a 16 year old. In fact most British people frown up ADULTS partaking in what is legally ok in Britain. However, a 17 year old boy having sex with a 16 year old girl is perfectly fine in MY opinion.

But when does it becomes not fine in your opinion? your hero, the "british government" here says it is perfectly fine for 50 or even 80 year old adults to be having sex with some children

Look "attofishpi" you were trying to claim that "british government and law" was somehow superior to "islamic government and law", so I was just pointing out to you that "your british government and law", in the days when this is being written anyway, permits you adult human beings of any age to have sex with some children, and that by a lot of people this is considered child abuse, not okay, and 'pedophilia'.

So, I will suggest that before you go looking at judging, criticizing, and ridiculing "others", you have a good hard look at "yourself" and your own views first.

you have been here promoting the permitting of adults having sex with sone children as though this is perfectly acceptable and okay.

And, what you have been continually missing here, because you have been desperately trying to fight and argue for your 'currently' held beliefs and views, while trying to denigrate older written words of law, is that your own 'current' views and beliefs are actually very barbaric in relation to a Truly loving and forward thinking society.

UNLIKE Islam where pedophilia IS permitted (idiot).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia
Pedophilia (alternatively spelled paedophilia) is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children.[1][2]: vii  Although girls typically begin the process of puberty at age 10 or 11, and boys at age 11 or 12,[3] psychiatric diagnostic criteria for pedophilia extend the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13.[4] People with the disorder are often referred to as pedophiles (or paedophiles).

AGAIN:- Where is your EVIDENCE that I am a PEDOPHILE?
[/quote]

But in "britian" is where 'pedophilia" IS, also, permitted.

you just use the word 'pedophilia' in relation to a narrower group of people so that then you believe your sexual views, desires, and attraction towards some people does not fall into the category of 'pedophile'.

In other words what you are doing here and have shown is another example of what all of you adult human beings kept trying to do in the days when this was being written, and that was you all keep 'trying to justify' your Wrong thoughts and behaviours.

[godelian]

My general moral position is, there should be ZERO wars.
But due to the current psychological and evolutionary state of the majority of humans, wars will unavoidably happened.

It is not possible to run a state based on unrealistic idealism. Say that there will be wars. Therefore, you need an army. Now you have the problem that nobody wants to join that army. So, what do you do?

In general, a percentile [%] citizens of a country in the absence of force, coercion or laws are willing to join the army voluntarily upon various reasons [employment, loyalty, patriotism -in a declared war, as missionaries, etc.]

The reality of the matter is that not enough men volunteer for military service. In the Ottoman empire, Christians overwhelmingly chose to pay the exemption tax, while Muslims were increasingly spending on a growing phenomenon of corruption to avoid serving in the military. We simply have to understand that most people prefer to pay money instead of serving in the army. This problem cannot be solved merely by being naive about reality.

But in general the Christians who are conquered by Muslims could not have joined the Muslim army voluntarily but rather are being forced into the situation due to oppressive factors and pressures by the majority Muslims.

Jews and Christians could trivially opt out from serving in the military by paying the exemption tax and overwhelmingly did so. Muslims were not supposed to opt out but they still did by paying corruption money which was by the way undoubtedly more expensive than the exemption tax.

Everybody and their little brother was dodging the draft. Your solution sounds as if some naive idealism would save the day. It didn't. From its first day till its last, the Caliphate and later on the Ottoman empire struggled with this problem.