What is the difference between Consciousness and Truth?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Dontaskme
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Re: What is the difference between Consciousness and Truth?

Post by Dontaskme »

Age wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:37 pm
Also, WHY do you refer to all persons as 'man' only sometimes? if you referred to all persons as 'man' ALWAYS, then there would be LESS CONFUSION. But AGAIN, if you referred to all persons as 'human' ALWAYS, then there is NO CONFUSION EVER. Although it is STILL a VERY Wrong MISUSE of the words.
No, it's not a wrong misuse of words.

Most people are not confused as you suggest.

MANKIND = human beings considered collectively; the human race.

No need for pedantic sematics Age.
Age
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Re: What is the difference between Consciousness and Truth?

Post by Age »

Belinda wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 2:35 pm
Age wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:37 pm
Belinda wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 3:22 pm Age, I sometimes refer to all persons as 'man'. Gender stereotyping is such nonsense that for practical purposes whatever one's biological sex, each of us is a man.
WHY NOT just call all persons 'human' instead? That way there is NEVER ANY CONFUSION. Or, is it okay with you that I call 'you' a 'man' sometimes also, "belinda"?

Also, WHY do you refer to all persons as 'man' only sometimes? if you referred to all persons as 'man' ALWAYS, then there would be LESS CONFUSION. But AGAIN, if you referred to all persons as 'human' ALWAYS, then there is NO CONFUSION EVER. Although it is STILL a VERY Wrong MISUSE of the words.
I call all persons "man" when I feel like defying the stultifying effect of gender stereotypes. 'Mankind' and 'man' are well within traditional use of English which is part and parcel of how English is a living language which you cannot alter as if you are a language tzar.
'you' speak as though 'language' does NOT CHANGE, or that it would be somehow WRONG to CHANGE, or WRONG if it DID CHANGE.

Contrary to what 'you' CLAIM here 'you' can and DO ALTER and CHANGE language. That is WHY ALL 'men' used to be GAY, but are NOT 'now', when this is being written.

Look, if 'you' want to call ALL human beings, that is; ALL men, ALL women, and ALL children, 'men', then so be it. 'you' are absolutely FREE to say and do whatever you like.

Belinda wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 2:35 pm It would sound silly to call me "a man" when my username is so traditionally feminine. However for all purposes here I am an honorary man like everyone else.
Okay, if 'you want to be a honorary MAN, then so be 'it'.
Age
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Re: What is the difference between Consciousness and Truth?

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 3:32 pm
Age wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:37 pm
Also, WHY do you refer to all persons as 'man' only sometimes? if you referred to all persons as 'man' ALWAYS, then there would be LESS CONFUSION. But AGAIN, if you referred to all persons as 'human' ALWAYS, then there is NO CONFUSION EVER. Although it is STILL a VERY Wrong MISUSE of the words.
No, it's not a wrong misuse of words.

Most people are not confused as you suggest.
I NEVER suggest most people are confused AT ALL.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 3:32 pm MANKIND = human beings considered collectively; the human race.

No need for pedantic sematics Age.
LOL and these people wondered WHY they had STILL NOT YET found and discovered what thee ACTUAL Truth of things IS, EXACTLY.

SPEAK and WRITE however 'you' WANT, but do NOT be too surprised that 'you', adult human beings, CONTINUE to speak OVER "each other" and end up NOT FULLY understanding "each other".

It is the WRONG definitions that 'you' apply to words WHY 'you' STILL do NOT KNOW answers to questions like, 'Who am 'I', EXACTLY?'
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bahman
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Re: What is the difference between Consciousness and Truth?

Post by bahman »

Magnolia5275 wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:38 pm Precisely, what is the definition and meaning of Consciousness and how is it different than the definition and meaning of the word Truth?

My conclusion is that both "Truth" and "Consciousness" mean the totality of experiences. "Truth" just like any other word in language, can only be known through its correspondence to a feeling. In other words "Truth" is simply a feeling we know of, and that has profound implications on what reality actually is. If "Truth" is nothing beyond a feeling (how could it be??), then any statement claiming truth outside of consciousness is linguistically false because no word in language can reference something unknowable.

In other words, the word "Truth" exists because it is known, and only because it is known. A reality outside of "the known" is a reality outside of Truth.
Consciousness is the ability to experience. The truth is a set of statements that explains reality.
popeye1945
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Re: What is the difference between Consciousness and Truth?

Post by popeye1945 »

Magnolia5275 wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:38 pm Precisely, what is the definition and meaning of Consciousness and how is it different than the definition and meaning of the word Truth?

My conclusion is that both "Truth" and "Consciousness" mean the totality of experiences. "Truth" just like any other word in language, can only be known through its correspondence to a feeling. In other words "Truth" is simply a feeling we know of, and that has profound implications on what reality actually is. If "Truth" is nothing beyond a feeling (how could it be??), then any statement claiming truth outside of consciousness is linguistically false because no word in language can reference something unknowable.

In other words, the word "Truth" exists because it is known, and only because it is known. A reality outside of "the known" is a reality outside of Truth.
Truth is consciousness of the information of the senses provided by experience, which is always true to the biology that is doing the experiencing. For even where it disagrees with reality, the judgement is not necessarily false, relative to perhaps ill or defective biology. Truth is experience/knowledge and meaning relative to biology.
Belinda
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Re: What is the difference between Consciousness and Truth?

Post by Belinda »

An Example of the Difference Between Consciousness and Truth.
From Wikipedia:
In journalism and mass media, sensationalism is a type of editorial tactic. Events and topics in news stories are selected and worded to excite the greatest number of readers and viewers. This style of news reporting encourages biased or emotionally loaded impressions of events rather than neutrality, and may cause a manipulation to the truth of a story.[1] Sensationalism may rely on reports about generally insignificant matters and portray them as a major influence on society, or biased presentations of newsworthy topics, in a trivial, or tabloid manner, contrary to general assumptions of professional journalistic standards.[2][3]
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Agent Smith
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Re: What is the difference between Consciousness and Truth?

Post by Agent Smith »

Age wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:31 am
Magnolia5275 wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:38 pm Precisely, what is the definition and meaning of Consciousness and how is it different than the definition and meaning of the word Truth?
The word 'conscious' refers to 'being aware' as in when one is 'conscious' of some 'thing', then they are 'aware' of 'that thing', and, 'consciousness' refers to the action, behavior, or state of just 'being aware'. The word 'Consciousness' with a capital 'C' refers to the state of 'being Aware' of ALL 'things' and NOT just some 'things'.

'truth' is reached or obtained through 'agreement and acceptance'. And, 'Truth' capital 'T' is when there is 'agreement and acceptance' by ALL or EVERY 'thing'.
Magnolia5275 wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:38 pm My conclusion is that both "Truth" and "Consciousness" mean the totality of experiences. "Truth" just like any other word in language, can only be known through its correspondence to a feeling. In other words "Truth" is simply a feeling we know of, and that has profound implications on what reality actually is.
So, if I am wonder what 'life' is, EXACTLY, and I am 'feeling' sad, for example, at that time, then 'Life is sad' would be the 'Truth', following this 'logic' of 'yours' here, correct?

If no, then WHY NOT?
Magnolia5275 wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:38 pm If "Truth" is nothing beyond a feeling (how could it be??), then any statement claiming truth outside of consciousness is linguistically false because no word in language can reference something unknowable.
Wow you JUMPED from one ASSUMPTION to ANOTHER ASSUMPTION then to A CONCLUSION here VERY QUICKLY.

Also, WHY do you ask questions here, which you, OBVIOUSLY, have NO interest in HEARING what "another" has to SAY in regards to 'your question'?

What 'you' are doing here is just REVEALING and SHOWING what 'you' ALREADY BELIEVE IS TRUE.
Magnolia5275 wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:38 pm In other words, the word "Truth" exists because it is known, and only because it is known. A reality outside of "the known" is a reality outside of Truth.
Did it NOT 'stand to reason' PREVIOUSLY that ONLY what is KNOWN could ACTUALLY be 'true', and 'True'?
I like what ya said on truth. Points awarded!

As for the OP, s/he seems ta picked up a rather interesting scent. Barring maliciously placed putrefying red herrings, I'd say he'll arrive at his destination sooner thsn expected. As for that which gives us sleepless nights, hypothesis non fingo.

Furthermore, your comment on logic found its mark. An amazing feat given certain presuppositions I've taken the liberty to make.
popeye1945
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Re: What is the difference between Consciousness and Truth?

Post by popeye1945 »

Truth is biological experience until dispelled by other biological sources through their experiences. All meaning is biologically dependent.
Belinda
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Re: What is the difference between Consciousness and Truth?

Post by Belinda »

popeye1945 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 1:55 am Truth is biological experience until dispelled by other biological sources through their experiences. All meaning is biologically dependent.
Yes, but we have here an immediate ethical problem about consciousness and truth. Given : there may be no absolute Truth, and if there is we can't know it.(As you say "biologically dependent".) That being so we have only relative truth.
Consciousness is fickle and prone to seduction by liars and cheats. The practical problem for consciousness is sorting the liars and cheats from honest men.
popeye1945
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Re: What is the difference between Consciousness and Truth?

Post by popeye1945 »

Belinda wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 11:13 am
popeye1945 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 1:55 am Truth is biological experience until dispelled by other biological sources through their experiences. All meaning is biologically dependent.
Yes, but we have here an immediate ethical problem about consciousness and truth. Given : there may be no absolute Truth, and if there is we can't know it.(As you say "biologically dependent".) That being so we have only relative truth.
Consciousness is fickle and prone to seduction by liars and cheats. The practical problem for consciousness is sorting the liars and cheats from honest men.
Relative truth is the only kind of truth there is, and it is not infallible, that is why to the group of biological subjects truth is agreement. We are each the center of our own universe. Experience, perception, meaning and judgment are dependent upon the health of one's biology. Alter your biology with drugs or illness and you necessarily alter all the above.
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Re: What is the difference between Consciousness and Truth?

Post by Belinda »

popeye1945 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 11:39 pm
Belinda wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 11:13 am
popeye1945 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 1:55 am Truth is biological experience until dispelled by other biological sources through their experiences. All meaning is biologically dependent.
Yes, but we have here an immediate ethical problem about consciousness and truth. Given : there may be no absolute Truth, and if there is we can't know it.(As you say "biologically dependent".) That being so we have only relative truth.
Consciousness is fickle and prone to seduction by liars and cheats. The practical problem for consciousness is sorting the liars and cheats from honest men.
Relative truth is the only kind of truth there is, and it is not infallible, that is why to the group of biological subjects truth is agreement. We are each the center of our own universe. Experience, perception, meaning and judgment are dependent upon the health of one's biology. Alter your biology with drugs or illness and you necessarily alter all the above.
Do you not think the biological subject also changes 'top down'? After all, 'top down' change is what education is for. Clinicians too apply mind therapies besides and surgery and medication. A working dog is taught to be conscientious.
We are speaking English here, which with respect to ideas about consciousness is limited, whereas in French 'consciousness' and 'conscience' is the same word.
popeye1945
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Re: What is the difference between Consciousness and Truth?

Post by popeye1945 »

Belinda wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 8:49 am
popeye1945 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 11:39 pm
Belinda wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 11:13 am

Yes, but we have here an immediate ethical problem about consciousness and truth. Given : there may be no absolute Truth, and if there is we can't know it.(As you say "biologically dependent".) That being so we have only relative truth.
Consciousness is fickle and prone to seduction by liars and cheats. The practical problem for consciousness is sorting the liars and cheats from honest men.
Relative truth is the only kind of truth there is, and it is not infallible, that is why to the group of biological subjects truth is agreement. We are each the center of our own universe. Experience, perception, meaning and judgment are dependent upon the health of one's biology. Alter your biology with drugs or illness and you necessarily alter all the above.
Do you not think the biological subject also changes 'top down'? After all, 'top down' change is what education is for. Clinicians too apply mind therapies besides and surgery and medication. A working dog is taught to be conscientious.
We are speaking English here, which with respect to ideas about consciousness is limited, whereas in French 'consciousness' and 'conscience' is the same word.
I simply mean that when biology is altered so too is the experiences of that biology, thus knowledge, judgment and meanings are altered. Alter states of consciousness can be achieved by various means besides drugs or illness, meditation is said to be most effective in this way.
popeye1945
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Re: What is the difference between Consciousness and Truth?

Post by popeye1945 »

Magnolia5275 wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:38 pm Precisely, what is the definition and meaning of Consciousness and how is it different than the definition and meaning of the word Truth?

My conclusion is that both "Truth" and "Consciousness" mean the totality of experiences. "Truth" just like any other word in language, can only be known through its correspondence to a feeling. In other words "Truth" is simply a feeling we know of, and that has profound implications on what reality actually is. If "Truth" is nothing beyond a feeling (how could it be??), then any statement claiming truth outside of consciousness is linguistically false because no word in language can reference something unknowable.

In other words, the word "Truth" exists because it is known, and only because it is known. A reality outside of "the known" is a reality outside of Truth.
Truth and consciousness are not the same thing. Truth is a statement of experience; experience is the function of consciousness.
popeye1945
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Re: What is the difference between Consciousness and Truth?

Post by popeye1945 »

Magnolia5275 wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:38 pm Precisely, what is the definition and meaning of Consciousness and how is it different than the definition and meaning of the word Truth?

My conclusion is that both "Truth" and "Consciousness" mean the totality of experiences. "Truth" just like any other word in language, can only be known through its correspondence to a feeling. In other words "Truth" is simply a feeling we know of, and that has profound implications on what reality actually is. If "Truth" is nothing beyond a feeling (how could it be??), then any statement claiming truth outside of consciousness is linguistically false because no word in language can reference something unknowable.

In other words, the word "Truth" exists because it is known, and only because it is known. A reality outside of "the known" is a reality outside of Truth.
Excellent, truth is a personal experience and always true to the biology of the experiencer. If the biology of a subject is defective, the experience will be true to that defective biology. This is the basis of, truth to the individual is experience; to a collective, it is an agreement/collective personal experience. Biology is the measure and the meaning of all things.
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