Heaven and hell are not just "illusory"

[godelian]

How the fuck can you prevent divorce without law.

The Catholic Church does not have a divorce procedure. So, you can part ways, but as far as the church is concerned, the marriage still exists.

Please Google some anthropology.

It is a common term. Other languages have a specific word for it. English doesn't.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_family

A nuclear family (also known as an elementary family, atomic family, cereal packet family[1] or conjugal family) is a family group consisting of parents and their children (one or more), typically living in one home residence.

The term nuclear family first appeared in the early 20th century. Merriam-Webster dates the term back to 1924,[4] while the Oxford English Dictionary has a reference to the term from 1925; thus it is relatively new.

The etymology for the term does not suggest that it originated as a term specific to anthropology.

Please cite

https://www.al-islam.org/women-islam-ve ... zeem/wifes
The Jewish tradition regarding the husband’s role towards his wife stems from the conception that he owns her as he owns his slave.1

This conception has also been responsible for denying the wife any control over her property or her earnings. As soon as a Jewish woman got married, she completely lost any control over her property and earnings to her husband.

Thus, marriage caused the richest woman to become practically penniless.

Christianity, until recently, has followed the same Jewish tradition.

Islam, since the seventh century C.E., has granted married women the independent personality which the Judaeo-Christian West had deprived them until very recently.

The wife’s property and earnings are under her full control and for her use alone since her, and the children’s, maintenance is her husband’s responsibility.12

The three religions share an unshakeable belief in the importance of marriage and family life. They also agree on the leadership of the husband over the family. Nevertheless, blatant differences do exist among the three religions with respect to the limits of this leadership. The Judaeo-Christian tradition, unlike Islam, virtually extends the leadership of the husband into ownership of his wife.

I assume you would prefer a Mad Max workd.
Or you could try and participate in society rather than snipe your uneducated politics from the side lines.

In my opinion, the West is far beyond salvation. It will crash and burn. Therefore, I prefer to stay in SE Asia or anywhere else outside the West, really. Furthermore, no divorce rapes. No income tax rapes. No need to change anything, really. I simply choose to live where I am treated best.

[Sculptor]

How the fuck can you prevent divorce without law.

The Catholic Church does not have a divorce procedure. So, you can part ways, but as far as the church is concerned, the marriage still exists.

Please Google some anthropology.

It is a common term. Other languages have a specific word for it. English doesn't.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_family

A nuclear family (also known as an elementary family, atomic family, cereal packet family[1] or conjugal family) is a family group consisting of parents and their children (one or more), typically living in one home residence.

The term nuclear family first appeared in the early 20th century. Merriam-Webster dates the term back to 1924,[4] while the Oxford English Dictionary has a reference to the term from 1925; thus it is relatively new.

The etymology for the term does not suggest that it originated as a term specific to anthropology.

Please cite

https://www.al-islam.org/women-islam-ve ... zeem/wifes
The Jewish tradition regarding the husband’s role towards his wife stems from the conception that he owns her as he owns his slave.1

This conception has also been responsible for denying the wife any control over her property or her earnings. As soon as a Jewish woman got married, she completely lost any control over her property and earnings to her husband.

Thus, marriage caused the richest woman to become practically penniless.

Christianity, until recently, has followed the same Jewish tradition.

Islam, since the seventh century C.E., has granted married women the independent personality which the Judaeo-Christian West had deprived them until very recently.

The wife’s property and earnings are under her full control and for her use alone since her, and the children’s, maintenance is her husband’s responsibility.12

The three religions share an unshakeable belief in the importance of marriage and family life. They also agree on the leadership of the husband over the family. Nevertheless, blatant differences do exist among the three religions with respect to the limits of this leadership. The Judaeo-Christian tradition, unlike Islam, virtually extends the leadership of the husband into ownership of his wife.

I assume you would prefer a Mad Max workd.
Or you could try and participate in society rather than snipe your uneducated politics from the side lines.

In my opinion, the West is far beyond salvation. It will crash and burn. Therefore, I prefer to stay in SE Asia or anywhere else outside the West, really. Furthermore, no divorce rapes. No income tax rapes. No need to change anything, really. I simply choose to live where I am treated best.

You do not know enough about the rest of the world to know how things work. SO...
So lets cut the crap.
I'm assuming that you either fear marraige for fear of divorce or you have already suffered a divorce.
What would you have?
No marriage?
Marriage, with divorce?
Or Marriage , no divorce?
Pick one, or offer another situation. Then we can trawl down to unpack your problem.

[godelian]

You do not know enough about the rest of the world to know how things work. SO...

Well, you didn't know how things works in Islam, but apparently, you still believe that you "know enough about the rest of the world to know how things work". Islamic law works perfectly fine for me. I have no problem with marriage or divorce in Islam.

Why men do not want to marry or have relationships in the West, is not a personal problem of just one single individual:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/fabianabuontem ... et-married

Men Are Sharing The Specific Reasons They Don't Want To Get Married, And Several Are Eye-Opening

It creates a contractual agreement between two parties that either party can withdraw from the contract at any time. However, the less well-off party can have the state order the more well-off party to give a substantial amount of income to them just because they decided to void the contract. If you did not describe this as marriage, any lawyer would tell you to run. I have no desire to involve the state in my relationship just to hand someone a tool to ruin my life with.

I've seen marriages fail all around me. My mom is not happy in hers, but she has her own issues. My friend who didn't want to get married or have kids at first got married, had a kid, wife cheated on him with two different men, and they got divorced. He's paying child support and is starting to think his kid isn't his. He's afraid to take a paternity test but knows he should. That alone was enough of a reason.

Most of the women I know seem to view marriage as an opportunity for social media photos rather than a real commitment. Combine that with the family court's hostility toward men, and it's just a recipe for disaster. Plus, I've heard 'forever' from too many women to believe it anymore."

He doesn't even let his girlfriend live with him. Lives on another island to prevent any cohabitation laws from coming into effect for her to be entitled to his stuff. That's how bad marriage can be and his aversion to it. Having gone through it, there is no such thing as prenup in my country, and alimony is life. No fault state, too. How bad can you get? Literally, cheat and be rewarded.

https://www.thefemininewoman.com/why-me ... -to-marry/

Why Some Men Never Want to Marry A Woman

What security is there for men in marriage? If I cheat on my wife, she gets half my s**t. If she cheats on me, she still gets half my s**t. Why the f*** should I get married?

https://discover.hubpages.com/relations ... g-to-Marry

Men Not Wanting to Marry: A Modern Problem

With a 50% chance of divorce, men can get screwed for life with paying alimony, which can take them to the poorhouse. Men often see the statistics and simply shun the idea of ever getting married.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/8-reason ... _b_3467778

8 Reasons Straight Men Don't Want To Get Married

You could lose your kids, and your money. And they may not even be your kids. Lots of men I spoke with were keenly aware of the dangers of divorce, and worried that if they were married and it went sour, the woman might take everything, including the kids. Other men were concerned that they might wind up paying child support for kids who aren't even theirs - a very real possibility in many states.

You'll lose in court. Men often complain that the family court legal system is stacked against them, and in fact it seems to be. Women gain custody and child support the majority of the time, as pointed out in this ABC News article

You'll lose your freedom. At least, if you're charged with child support that you can't pay, you can be put in jail - and if you can't afford a lawyer, you don't have the right to have one appointed because, according to the Supreme Court, it's technically a civil matter, never mind the jail time.

I simply do not want all of the above. This problem does not exist outside the West. So, the simplest solution is therefore to move and to go where you are treated best.

[Sculptor]

You do not know enough about the rest of the world to know how things work. SO...

Well, you didn't know how things works in Islam, but apparently, you still believe that you "know enough about the rest of the world to know how things work". Islamic law works perfectly fine for me. I have no problem with marriage or divorce in Islam.

You do not know enough about the rest of the world to know how things work. SO...
So lets cut the crap.
I'm assuming that you either fear marraige for fear of divorce or you have already suffered a divorce.
What would you have?
No marriage?
Marriage, with divorce?
Or Marriage , no divorce?
Pick one, or offer another situation. Then we can trawl down to unpack your problem.

[godelian]

You do not know enough about the rest of the world to know how things work. SO..

Do you live in SE Asia? I do. So, what exactly is it that you know about SE Asia that I don't know?

[Age]

By the way, so-called 'true arithmetic' is only a tiniest fraction of the Universe, itself.

But, so-called 'true arithmetic' is again nothing at all but only a minuscule fraction of the Universe, Itself, and does not necessarily explain absolutely anything about the Universe, Itself.

True arithmetic is not a part of the physical universe.

How does so-called 'true arithmetic' exist outside or beyond the Universe, Itself. How could it be physically possible for 'true arithmetic', which comes from physical human bodies, not be a part of the Universe? Or, not be a part of the physical Universe? If you physical human are the ones who made 'true arithmetic', then how could 'true arithmetic' not be a part of the physical universe, as you claim it is not?

Do you believe 'true arithmetic' exists/ed without human beings?

if yes, then how and where does 'true arithmetic' exist, exactly?

True arithmetic s its own Platonic abstract universe.

Some might now be saying that "godelian" is in its own 'platonic abstract universe', 'now'.

The old Pythagorean idea that I am trying to investigate is that true arithmetic is structurally similar to the physical universe.

True arithmetic consists of a strange cocktail of predictable and unpredictable facts. This is surprising because the natural numbers are otherwise entirely deterministic. There is absolutely no element of randomness in it.

So what?

There is One Universe only, which is certainly absolutely not inside of some so-called 'multiverse'.

The reason why true arithmetic is partially unpredictable has nothing to do with randomness. It is the consequence of the existence of other arithmetical universes that influence it. This could also be similarly the case for the physical universe.

But it cannot be.

you are just trying your hardest to find a way to 'prove' your belief that God exists. And, you trying to use 'mathematics' to do this, which by the way is quite amusing to watch, and observe, from HERE.

[Age]

Your religion [relative to others] as I have shown is inherently evil and barbaric and should be weaned off in the future.

Not before barbarizing the ruling mafia first!

I want barbaric reprisals against any ruling mafia that stick their noses into private family matters. Barbarism is not a bug in that context but a feature.

So, if you are abusing 'the partner' and 'she' wants to complain about this, which ends up in court so 'she' can get a divorce 'from you', then 'you' do not want any outside interference in this matter, correct?

What 'you' want is that 'you' can do whatever you want with 'the partner', right?

And, what 'you' also certainly want is that if 'she' decides that 'she' does not want to be 'with you' anymore, then 'she' certainly not be permitted to get half, or even any, of the miserable 'monetary things' that were obtained, which for all 'we' know could have all been obtained by 'her', true?

One good example is the total elimination of legal chattel slavery.

I don't give a flying fart about that!

I am only interested in solutions that will successfully attack and destroy any ruling mafia that stick their noses into private family matters.

Yes we know you do not care about slavery, because what you want is that 'the woman' does what 'the man' wants, and that there is absolutely no outside of 'that house' interference.

Which, by the way, is a sure sign of just how True weak and insecure 'that type of man' really is.

The Russian Federation is also potentially useful in that context. I do not care who exactly attacks and destroys NATO. Seriously, the only thing I care about, is that someone finally does it.

This one is so absolutely 'self-centered' that it does not care what happens in the 'rest of the world' as long as absolutely no one attacks nor intrudes into what 'this one' calls 'its place', or home.

This one is living proof of just how Truly greedy and selfish some adult human beings had become, back in the 'olden days' when this was being written.

Your views are ineffective because they are not a solution for the problem at hand. They may possibly deal with other issues but who even cares about that?

Yes, absolutely everyone should only care about 'the issues' "godellian" has, and raises here.

[Age]

Your religion [relative to others] as I have shown is inherently evil and barbaric and should be weaned off in the future.

Not before barbarizing the ruling mafia first!

I want barbaric reprisals against any ruling mafia that stick their noses into private family matters. Barbarism is not a bug in that context but a feature.

One good example is the total elimination of legal chattel slavery.

I don't give a flying fart about that!

I am only interested in solutions that will successfully attack and destroy any ruling mafia that stick their noses into private family matters.

The Russian Federation is also potentially useful in that context. I do not care who exactly attacks and destroys NATO. Seriously, the only thing I care about, is that someone finally does it.

Your views are ineffective because they are not a solution for the problem at hand. They may possibly deal with other issues but who even cares about that?

It is true, there are problems in the world everywhere and we need patient while striving to expedite morality proper.

But, there are 'no problems' where "godelian" chooses to live, and call 'home', nor ever 'any problem' in 'the house' "godelian" chooses to live, just as long as 'the woman' does what "godelian" tells 'her' to do, and as long as absolutely no one interferes within 'that house'.

I have given an example of morality-proper at work, e.g. elimination of chattel slavery and it will work for other problems around the world which will take time.

But you are missing the whole point here "veritas aequitas", "godellian" does not want absolutely anyone to interfere with what it does. Although 'the others' in 'the family' are afraid and fear for their lives, and everyone else knows that there are 'issues or problems' within 'that environment' "godelian" certainly does not want absolutely anyone to help change anything there. Exactly like those who kept slaves did not want absolutely any outside interference, nor absolutely anyone telling them how they should 'keep' other human beings.

Do you think it is so easy to rewire the brain of the majority instantly?

Even 'the majority' cannot so-call 'rewire the brain' of one, when 'the one' does not want to change. you "veritas aequitas" are living proof of this Fact.

What you are proposing is driven by evil impulses which are grounded in immutable religious doctrines.

What you claim here "veritas aequitas" is absolute absurdity, and which some would say is absolute insanity. Just in case you wanted to consider some thing other than what you continually say and believe, within 'that head'.

[Age]

What you are proposing is driven by evil impulses which are grounded in immutable religious doctrines.

There is no problem in the world that the government won't make worse.

So, all of 'the problems', in that part of earth that you are now residing, will be 'made worse' by the government/s.

Or, do you believe that there are absolutely 'no problems', in that part of earth you call "south east asia"?

After 250 000 C14 years of staying out of private family matters, the ruling mafia in the West decided that they would henceforth make problems worse in private family affairs by inventing their divorce-rape system.

So, what are the, exact, reasons why 'the partner' wanted to divorce 'you' for "godellian"?

Would you like to go into every thing here, or just some things, only?

There is only one way to make them uninvent it. This can only be achieved by instituting a blood tax, which must be paid with dead bodies. The only problem that is left now, is to appoint an efficient tax collector.

Is this, really, the 'only way'?

[Age]

What is their "divorce-rape system" exactly?

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... rce%20rape

I will never get married because I watched my dad get divorce raped. He gave my mom the houses, cars, kids, and took on all the family debt to preserve the assets for us. My mom still dragged him through a 3 year court circus and extracted more money than he had in monthly child support. My dad lived in his car, a scum motel, then the worst crime neighborhood in a shit apartment. When he couldn’t make a few support payments the cops handcuffed him and put him in jail. He was a god father and made sure to see us every day. But his life was ruined and it destroyed mine too. Even my mom says she regrets it and is even unhappier now. Yeah, so, there’s absolutely no way I’m having kids. I won’t even get married with an ironclad prenup. Divorce rape happens wayyyy to often and it’s always the man who is starting over again in his 50s. Just when his hard work should have been paying off. Now he’s totally fucked. No thanks, America.

So, absolutely every woman on earth is the exact same as that, supposed, woman, right?

Is this 'the moral' of 'the story' here?

Also, the actual question asked was, 'What is their 'divorce-rape system', exactly?'

What you provided was 'a story', from one human being.

If you are implying that the phrase or term 'divorce-rape system' refers to when a couple gets divorced and one of 'them', 'he' or 'she', gets 'more' than the other, when it may not be deserved, then okay.

But, then again, you might mean something else, entirely. And, obviously, until you explain, What the 'divorce-rape system' is, to you, exactly, then 'we' will never know.

[Age]

What is their "divorce-rape system" exactly?

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... rce%20rape

I will never get married because I watched my dad get divorce raped. He gave my mom the houses, cars, kids, and took on all the family debt to preserve the assets for us. My mom still dragged him through a 3 year court circus and extracted more money than he had in monthly child support. My dad lived in his car, a scum motel, then the worst crime neighborhood in a shit apartment. When he couldn’t make a few support payments the cops handcuffed him and put him in jail. He was a god father and made sure to see us every day. But his life was ruined and it destroyed mine too. Even my mom says she regrets it and is even unhappier now. Yeah, so, there’s absolutely no way I’m having kids. I won’t even get married with an ironclad prenup. Divorce rape happens wayyyy to often and it’s always the man who is starting over again in his 50s. Just when his hard work should have been paying off. Now he’s totally fucked. No thanks, America.

It's an exaggeration.
No one gets "houses" and "cars". They might get one of each.
If the woman keeps the kids then someone still has to ay their upkeep, and that rate is nevver set more than a man's salary - ever.
You should not be so easily led by social media. You might want to collect some facts.

I do agree that marriage tends to favour the woman. Protection of the children is seen as paramount.
There is a solution to that.
Don't enter into a contract with a woman on this basis. And stop delivering your sperm into the furry cup.

But you cannot expact the state to not get involved in a system of contracts that are legally binding. It was not so long ago that the state mandated the women were "owned" by men whom they were married to.

And, this last part is, exactly, what "godelian" wants brought back, right "godelian"?

[Age]

But you cannot expact the state to not get involved in a system of contracts that are legally binding.

That is how it works outside the West. No government involvement. That is also how it used to work in the West before the French Revolution.

Even in the oldest of human tribes/societies I would say 'the elders', (a form of government), would be 'involved' in who is partnered with who, or if not, at least how each treats each other.

you seem to have the tiniest view or perspective of things here "godelian", well from my view and perspective here anyway.

There is no problem in the world that the government won't make worse.

So, you are literally saying and meaning that even the tiniest problems you have in your house, the government will make them worse, right?

The government has to stay out of it because otherwise they will keep destroying the nuclear family and therefore society itself.

So, you can do absolutely anything to absolutely any one in 'the house', and you want absolutely everyone to 'stay out', correct?

So, it looks like a race against time. Either the society gets destroyed and the government along with it, or the government gets destroyed first and then society may possibly survive, but not sure because a lot of the damage is irreversible.

In my opinion, it is already too late for the the West.

I like it how it works in most of SE Asia.

Why not all of so-called "south east asia"?

Why do you discriminate here as well?

No government involvement. No communal property. No divorce lawyers. In the Philippines, there is no divorce at all. You just go separate ways.

But only through government agreement. Also, until the government has agreed to the 'going of separate ways', the annulment of the marriage, it is still a crime and punishable by imprisonment for having an extramarital affair in that part of earth.

So, what do you mean by 'no government involvement'? It appears you are just 'seeing' only what you 'want to see' here.

It was not so long ago that the state mandated the women were "owned" by men whom they were married to.

That was only the case in the West.

Really?

Are you absolutely 100% sure of this?

[Age]

No it does not. Marriages that are legally instituted involve the law wherever and when ever they were.

No, the Catholic Church was dealing with marriage before the French Revolution. They didn't allow divorce. So, the situation was like in the Philippines today.

If something is 'not allowed', then that is 'the case' because of 'governments'. So, again, how can you say and claim that governments are not involved?

Before the Church took control over marriage in Europe, it was handled by both families, just like in Africa still today. Even Christian Africans still rarely marry in church.

Without government people would be free to dump their shit in the street.

It's a private company that collects the garbage here. If the government did it, that is when things would start going wrong.

you missed 'the point' completely, once again.

If 'the government' did not make 'the law' that 'it is illegal to dump one's shit on the street', then the claim is that some people would just 'dump their shit on the street'.

By the way, in some parts on earth private companies may well collect garbage, but who organizes them to do it when private companies do not?

The "nuclear family" is an invention of Western culture.

It just means "both parents and children". It exists everywhere.

In 'your world' "godelian" can the so-called 'nuclear family' be made up of two same sex or same gendered 'parents', or is this never a possibility?

It was pretty much universal.

Completely wrong. Wives in Islam have their own property and are not slaves in any way. There used to be female slaves but they were not wives.

So, to you, there is not one 'husband' in the whole of "islam" show 'slaves" 'the partner' around, correct?

Again, I like it the way it is in SE Asia and I want to keep it that way.

So, once again, the 'selfishness' of, 'What I want, I want to keep', 'shows and rears its ugly head', as some say, once more.

This one felt 'hurt' in one situation, puts absolutely every one in that part of earth where it 'felt hurt' as being the exact same, and so this is all it can 'see' now.

Therefore, decoupling is in my opinion necessary. The global south continues together with Russia and China on our side while the West, mostly Europe and North America, form their own separate block. I think that it is time to put the iron curtain back in place.

Okay. Would you like to draw the exact line, 'for us', where 'you' would like 'us' to construct and build the 'iron curtain', 'for you'.

Or, would 'you' like 'us' to just guess where 'you' want it, exactly?

[godelian]

Okay. Would you like to draw the exact line, 'for us', where 'you' would like 'us' to construct and build the 'iron curtain', 'for you'.

In the meanwhile, Vladimir Putin and the Russian Federation have emerged as the leader of the free world.

We should turn BRICS+ into a fully-fledged military alliance.

To this effect, it would be useful that China first restores their sovereignty over their rebellious province of Taiwan.

In Europe, NATO must retreat westwards behind the 1945 Yalta demarcation line as originally negotiated between Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin. Either they retreat or else they will be made to retreat. The choice is theirs.

Seriously, we must have zero tolerance for any further NATO shenanigans.

[Age]

Okay. Would you like to draw the exact line, 'for us', where 'you' would like 'us' to construct and build the 'iron curtain', 'for you'.

In the meanwhile, Vladimir Putin and the Russian Federation have emerged as the leader of the free world.

Who cares if this actually could even occur?

Also, have you ever considered that the term and phrase, 'leader of the free world', is a contradiction of itself?

We should turn BRICS+ into a fully-fledged military alliance.

To this effect, it would be useful that China first restores their sovereignty over their rebellious province of Taiwan.

In Europe, NATO must retreat westwards behind the 1945 Yalta demarcation line as originally negotiated between Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin. Either they retreat or else they will be made to retreat. The choice is theirs.

So, you cannot really say where 'you' want 'your iron curtain' built around the earth.

Seriously, we must have zero tolerance for any further NATO shenanigans.

Okay.

But meanwhile.