Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue

[seeds]

A "historico-cultural rehearsal" for what?

What the heck is that supposed to mean?

My way of seeing is Jungian. Trump represents a wide, wounded class of Americans. He represents their woundedness, their many lacks (intellectual, spiritual, in comprehension).

You need to get it into your head, once and for all, that Trump only represents Trump and nothing else.

He simply uses the wounded class of Americans to achieve his own selfish goals.

Fate or destiny pulled Trump onto the scene and he •rehearses• his part. It has elements of farce but also of tragedy.

What you are calling "fate," again, I call "necrotizing karma."

Once again, I insist that what's happening to America is the result of the necrotizing karma it is reaping from sowing treachery, death, and destruction across the planet through its imperialistic outreach.

I know I probably use the following example far too often, but it represents an insidiously evil aspect of America that its citizens need to face...

When asked in a television interview about the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children that resulted from U.S. sanctions placed on that country in the 90s, the soon to be Secretary of State, Madeleine Albright said:
“...we think the price is worth it...”
https://youtu.be/FbIX1CP9qr4

Do you actually believe that America can escape the negative karma coming back to it for such actions, accompanied with such a blasé attitude about being responsible for the deaths of a half-million children?

Do you think America can escape the karma coming back to it from the innumerable horrors it committed in the Vietnam war...



...or more recently in the Middle East...





The point is that "fate" didn't call forth a man like Donald Trump to help meet the challenges facing that "wounded class of Americans" you are so concerned about.

No, karma has vomited up the immoral Trump to help lead us into social turmoil and self-destruction by being the perfect representative of America's lack of moral integrity,...

...a lacking that impelled Madeleine Albright to make that unconscionable statement that the deaths of 500,000 children was "worth the price" of obtaining one of our imperialistic goals.
_______

[Gary Childress]

Unfortunately, the Biden administration is not much of an alternative. I'm going to vote Green Party in the coming election. I suggest every American go third party. The Democrats and Republicans have cooperatively destroyed what integrity our country had, and with it, the integrity of every American citizen living here. We've all got targets on our backs and there's only one way out. Fuck both the Democrats and the Republicans. Go third party, the Greens, (or even the Libertarians) would be a better choice in this mess.

[Alexis Jacobi]

I only read bits of what is said in this thread, and I really don't know where he is going with it, but I am getting an impression of a vague picture emerging. I don't think he believes in God, or anything, and he isn't a Catholic himself, but he seems to think the rest of us need to put ourselves under the discipline and moral authority of the Catholic Church, in order to restore our sick society.

I would rather, for philosophical purposes, start with the assertion that We need to put ourselves under the discipline and moral authority of something. But I am willing to say also that we do not know what that is. And there is a great deal of confusion, and misunderstanding, about what *that* should be.

While I do understand, Harbal, the degree to which the ideas here have little relevance for you, and you have never been moved by religious concerns (etc.) what I have recently put out there for consideration is Evola's list. And his question: What does it really mean to be a man? It is a serious question.

Putting it in those terms -- who is and then what is a *man* -- implies defining duties, obligations, and all of that which in former times (less now I think at least in our cultures) was presented to boys and young men as a standard to live up to. When I encountered Evola again just recently, and encountered his question, I realized how important it is.

As one example I do not discount what Seeds is saying about state crimes. And I accept that state crimes will affect a nation and that an afflicted nation will show many *sores* and social problems. yet might not be able to make the connection between *bad actions* and the results *sickness manifest in the culture*.

So it could be said to be a *manly activity* to try to see the destructive war-making especially of the Postwar in a critical light. Formerly only the Left did it. But now, weirdly, the positions are shifting.

I think that Seeds tends to agree with Evola's analysis (which is also mine to some degree) that we *stand among the ruins*. So the question is then What does a man do when he realizes he *stands among ruins*?

Dawson, and those of his generation, faced the actual ruins of Europe after 2 horrifying and destructive wars. But then so did everyone then and all intellectuals. Aldous Huxly's essays in the Interwar Period were just as hard, uncompromising and demanding of *the man* when compared to the spirit of what Evola says. All serious religious paths, all serious philosophical paths, all serious ethical paths, always involve a sort of hardness, a rigor, a discipline. And the same is true of really good educational programs: they are demanding and hard for the student.

[Alexis Jacobi]

....

Thanks for sharing the serial number of your model of Butt-Plug. I will be contacting the manufacturer to try to get some answers about why you, a needy user, have not got the calming results to curb your irksome ire. I promise to get back to you later. So hold the fort till then! No freak-outs, no CAPITALS, and keep your finger off the exclamation-point key! The route to your healing is an odd one, but at least it's a route!

[Harbal]

I only read bits of what is said in this thread, and I really don't know where he is going with it, but I am getting an impression of a vague picture emerging. I don't think he believes in God, or anything, and he isn't a Catholic himself, but he seems to think the rest of us need to put ourselves under the discipline and moral authority of the Catholic Church, in order to restore our sick society.

I would rather, for philosophical purposes, start with the assertion that We need to put ourselves under the discipline and moral authority of something.

We already do; the law.

But I am willing to say also that we do not know what that is. And there is a great deal of confusion, and misunderstanding, about what *that* should be.

I've already told you what it is, and the law should not be influenced by any religious institution.

While I do understand, Harbal, the degree to which the ideas here have little relevance for you,

They have a great deal of relevance to me. While I have no interest in the "ideas" themselves, I am very interested in resisting any move towards their implementation.

and you have never been moved by religious concerns (etc.) what I have recently put out there for consideration is Evola's list.

I have no idea who Evola is, but I suspect I have very little in common with him.

And his question: What does it really mean to be a man? It is a serious question.

Why should I care what he thinks it means to be a man? There are lots of differing opinions on what it means to be a man, and they are usually pretty stupid.

Putting it in those terms -- who is and then what is a *man* -- implies defining duties, obligations,

I've spent my adult life working that out for myself, so maybe I should be telling Evola how to conduct himself.

So it could be said to be a *manly activity* to try to see the destructive war-making especially of the Postwar in a critical light.

If you see that as a good thing, why do you not also think it should be a womanly activity?

So the question is then What does a man do when he realizes he *stands among ruins*?

He moves to a better neighbourhood?

Dawson, and those of his generation, faced the actual ruins of Europe after 2 horrifying and destructive wars.

I assume you don't mean Les Dawson, the well known British comedian; sadly no longer with us.

Aldous Huxly's essays in the Interwar Period were just as hard, uncompromising and demanding of *the man*

You probably think I have little interest in the thoughts of Aldous Huxley, and you would be right.

All serious religious paths, all serious philosophical paths, all serious ethical paths, always involve a sort of hardness, a rigor, a discipline.

I'm not attracted to the idea of subjecting myself to hardness, rigour or discipline, so you won't find me treading any of those paths.

[Dubious]

....

Thanks for sharing the serial number of your model of Butt-Plug. I will be contacting the manufacturer to try to get some answers about why you, a needy user, have not got the calming results to curb your irksome ire. I promise to get back to you later. So hold the fort till then! No freak-outs, no CAPITALS, and keep your finger off the exclamation-point key! The route to your healing is an odd one, but at least it's a route!

Alas! The intellectual yet idiot never tires to parade himself as such. Frankly, your attempt at wit is beyond pathetic. In your case it becomes necessary to remove the W from Wit and add SH to the left of IT...which reminds me of your butt plug fetish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It would be interesting to see your collection!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have you tried any of them???????????????? Likely you have, especially so when your incessant verbal diarrhea infects the nether region in which a butt plug becomes indispensable to seal any leftover leaks.

I do admit, however, in admiring the conformity with which your butt plug preoccupations collude with your butt plug philosophy which finds it reasonable to vote for a butt plug president.

But what happened? You told me to no-longer engage with you and since that warning, I happily acquiesced. Why then respond to a post which had nothing to do with you?????????????????????

[promethean75]

"I have no idea who Evola is, but I suspect I have very little in common with him."

U might, but u need to figure out which race type u belong to, the solar, lunar or titanic.

https://youtu.be/XiaSLAPYJMY

[Dubious]

"I have no idea who Evola is, but I suspect I have very little in common with him."

U might, but u need to figure out which race type u belong to, the solar, lunar or titanic.

https://youtu.be/XiaSLAPYJMY

You forgot to include the idiotic.

[Harbal]

"I have no idea who Evola is, but I suspect I have very little in common with him."

U might, but u need to figure out which race type u belong to, the solar, lunar or titanic.

https://youtu.be/XiaSLAPYJMY

So Evola is a crackpot, is he? I should have known.

[Alexis Jacobi]

One thing: for all that my ideas and yours, Harbal, do not at all coincide, still I appreciate you. I say that sincerely.
_______________

Evola was an extremely unusual man and uniquely talented. I know that here you will feel fine dismissing him entirely, but he reslly cannot be dismissed so easily.

A crackpot? Hmmmm. Some might say that. Some would have no other choice. I would say “strange genius’ but (for you it might be the same though).

[Alexis Jacobi]

But what happened? You told me to no-longer engage with you and since that warning,

If you examine that post, you nutjob, you might recognize that I was quoting you by paraphrase! You completely missed it.

What I wrote is what you exclaimed to me on numerous occasions — but you always circle back around!

[Lorikeet]

It could be that these symbolic categories refer to the type of men - spirts - a particular culture, with a particular worldview, nurtures and idealizes.
A particular culture emerging from a specific population, within a specific environment.

A culture is the product of this relationship of a genealogy with environmental and historical circumstances, over time.

Genes to Memes

Hellenes, for example were children of light....of the sun.
Semites are lunar in that they do not create they appropriate, just as the sun creates its own light and heat whereas the moon reflect light and heat.

But nihilists must cynically dismiss anything connected to spirituality grounded in nature, preferring spiritual nihilism, such as the Abrahamic triad, which they can easily dismiss within their binary nihilistic paradigms.
Everything must be reduced to this absolutist binary....including morality/ethics, spirituality, free-will, race/ethnicity etc.
1/0.
If not absolute one, then absolute nil.
If morality, for example, is not an absolute rule a universal rule, or not created by an absolutist god, then it must be absolutely nothing, absolute nonsense, a human fabrication.

[Harbal]

One thing: for all that my ideas and yours, Harbal, do not at all coincide, still I appreciate you. I say that sincerely.
_______________

Evola was an extremely unusual man and uniquely talented. I know that here you will feel fine dismissing him entirely, but he reslly cannot be dismissed so easily.

A crackpot? Hmmmm. Some might say that. Some would have no other choice. I would say “strange genius’ but (for you it might be the same though).

And I would say you are half right; he is definitely strange.

[Dubious]

But what happened? You told me to no-longer engage with you and since that warning,

What I wrote is what you exclaimed to me on numerous occasions — but you always circle back around!

How comforting! It seems we have a working relationship going after all. May it never end. I have to take out my bad disposition on somebody. You seem the ideal choice.

[Dubious]

If morality, for example, is not an absolute rule a universal rule, or not created by an absolutist god, then it must be absolutely nothing, absolute nonsense, a human fabrication.

Values are not without value simply because a universal rule doesn't mandate it; that was never the function of a universal rule in the first place. Morality in whatever format, which can never be absolute or universal, is guided by the rules it creates for itself. Universal ones are not required, the application of which, is more likely to result in nihilism and paralysis.

Morality is an active, organic entity subject to transformation; not a dead zone.