Faith: Difficult but Necessary?

[Gary Childress]

I didn't say that. All I asked is how you were going to turn this "want" into something more than a mere wish.

Wishes are free. Solutions are hard.

Then find something better to do that harass me over a post calling for peace. All you want to do is make me look stupid for whatever reason. Knock yourself out if that's what you want. I'm finished with this thread. Congrats on shutting it down.

Some of us are just trying to figure out how to turn your admirable wishful thinking into a practical strategy. Wishful thinking is not stupid.

Thank you. It's nice to come across a reasonable person. Many are, fortunately.

[commonsense]

Then find something better to do that harass me over a post calling for peace. All you want to do is make me look stupid for whatever reason. Knock yourself out if that's what you want. I'm finished with this thread. Congrats on shutting it down.

That doesn't sound very peaceful ...

As I said, no country should be invading another and no country should have troops stationed in another for unilateral purposes. If you're opposed to that, then look no further than yourself for why there are wars.

All I see is a lot of should without any how.

[Gary Childress]

That doesn't sound very peaceful ...

As I said, no country should be invading another and no country should have troops stationed in another for unilateral purposes. If you're opposed to that, then look no further than yourself for why there are wars.

All I see is a lot of should without any how.

How does anything get done that should get done? The first thing is to realize the "should" part. Some don't even see that part.

[commonsense]

Then find something better to do that harass me over a post calling for peace. All you want to do is make me look stupid for whatever reason. Knock yourself out if that's what you want. I'm finished with this thread. Congrats on shutting it down.

Some of us are just trying to figure out how to turn your admirable wishful thinking into a practical strategy. Wishful thinking is not stupid.

Thank you. It's nice to come across a reasonable person. Many are, fortunately.

I’m actually no more reasonable than IC.

[Gary Childress]

Some of us are just trying to figure out how to turn your admirable wishful thinking into a practical strategy. Wishful thinking is not stupid.

Thank you. It's nice to come across a reasonable person. Many are, fortunately.

I’m actually no more reasonable than IC.

OK. Fair enough.

[Immanuel Can]

Apparently, I am. I was hoping to find more reasonable people here. Many are but not all.

Well, that's no doubt true. But I don't think you're right to assume that's what's going on in the present case.

"Reasonable" means "willing to be governed by reason," not "unthinkingly affirming of whatever somebody first posts." If you have reasoning to show how your desire for peace can be translated into practice, great; if not, then it's not actually a "reasoned" conversation you were looking for -- it was only blind affirmation from the unthinking.

Maybe you weren't reasonable to suppose you could get that sort of blind affirmation on a philosophy site.

Good grief. Just go aways, IC.

Well, okay. Just sayin'.

[commonsense]

As I said, no country should be invading another and no country should have troops stationed in another for unilateral purposes. If you're opposed to that, then look no further than yourself for why there are wars.

All I see is a lot of should without any how.

How does anything get done that should get done? The first thing is to realize the "should" part. Some don't even see that part.

That’s the crux of it. The realization is necessary, but not sufficient. How do we find a way to make peace a reality?

[Gary Childress]

Well, that's no doubt true. But I don't think you're right to assume that's what's going on in the present case.

"Reasonable" means "willing to be governed by reason," not "unthinkingly affirming of whatever somebody first posts." If you have reasoning to show how your desire for peace can be translated into practice, great; if not, then it's not actually a "reasoned" conversation you were looking for -- it was only blind affirmation from the unthinking.

Maybe you weren't reasonable to suppose you could get that sort of blind affirmation on a philosophy site.

Good grief. Just go aways, IC.

Well, okay. Just sayin'.

OK. That's fair, then. I do the same thing at times. I can't fault you for it.

[Gary Childress]

All I see is a lot of should without any how.

How does anything get done that should get done? The first thing is to realize the "should" part. Some don't even see that part.

That’s the crux of it. The realization is necessary, but not sufficient. How do we find a way to make peace a reality?

It seems to me that faith that things like military solutions are not necessary is a good start. If we want other countries to be exactly the way we want them, then the only sensible approach I think is to set a good example that they will follow instead of us seeking military solutions. As it stands our leaders didn't set a good example recently with the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq and now we have no credible leg to stand on when we complain about Russia. Peace has to start with us if that's what we want.

[Gary Childress]

I apologize for my early replies. They were not constructive.

[commonsense]

How does anything get done that should get done? The first thing is to realize the "should" part. Some don't even see that part.

That’s the crux of it. The realization is necessary, but not sufficient. How do we find a way to make peace a reality?

It seems to me that faith that things like military solutions are not necessary is a good start. If we want other countries to be exactly the way we want them, then the only sensible approach I think is to set a good example that they will follow instead of us seeking military solutions. As it stands our leaders didn't set a good example recently with the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq and now we have no credible leg to stand on when we complain about Russia. Peace has to start with us if that's what we want.

Yours is a constructive reply here. We’re getting closer to working out the problem.

You are absolutely correct—a good example by our own nation is the way to start. I’m worried that other nations will choose not to follow our example. I suppose that is where diplomacy comes in. Even so, I don’t know how the diplomats will accomplish cooperation.

Thoughts?

[Gary Childress]

That’s the crux of it. The realization is necessary, but not sufficient. How do we find a way to make peace a reality?

It seems to me that faith that things like military solutions are not necessary is a good start. If we want other countries to be exactly the way we want them, then the only sensible approach I think is to set a good example that they will follow instead of us seeking military solutions. As it stands our leaders didn't set a good example recently with the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq and now we have no credible leg to stand on when we complain about Russia. Peace has to start with us if that's what we want.

Yours is a constructive reply here. We’re getting closer to working out the problem.

You are absolutely correct—a good example by our own nation is the way to start. I’m worried that other nations will choose not to follow our example. I suppose that is where diplomacy comes in. Even so, I don’t know how the diplomats will accomplish cooperation.

Thoughts?

Our diplomats are pretty much hamstrung by our own recent behavior with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. As far as I can tell, we're eating a lot of our own shit at this point when we try to negotiate. (We say, "stop the invasion" and the rest of the world laughs.) If we stop using our military for diplomacy, then we'll have less shit to eat and we can have a leg to stand on. We can keep our military at a reasonable level of readiness for truly self defensive purposes, however, we need to stop eagerly using it trying to solve EVERYTHING. Our diplomacy skills will become better with practice as we use it instead of military "solutions".

But for right now. We need faith, faith that we don't need to rely on military solutions. Which, in all practicality, we don't. Military intervention didn't solve anything in Iraq and Afghanistan. Really, it destroyed our reputation and credibility--as it should.

[Gary Childress]

Long story short, the only thing we can all do right now is oppose militarism with everything we have in faith that it won't come back to bite us on the butt like invading Iraq and Afghanistan did.

[commonsense]

Long story short, the only thing we can all do right now is oppose militarism with everything we have in faith that it won't come back to bite us on the butt like invading Iraq and Afghanistan did.

I guess you’re right. The only thing we have for peace now is faith, for whatever that may be worth.

I remember a slogan that was common in the Air Force long ago: “Peace through Strength”. I guess that’s what you’re talking about when you say we should have sufficient military resources but only for defense.

[commonsense]

BTW, I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t‘ve had this same discussion with IC. He/she seems like a very reasonable chap.