Will God Save Us from Ourselves?

[Gary Childress]

Christianity isn't a bad thing. I see a lot of young people today getting a lot of fulfillment out of going to church and being involved in community that comes with going to church. My generation, of course, grew up watching and listening to Carl Sagan and reading Sartre, Camus, Nietzsche and other influential atheist intellectuals. So we're kind of the lost generation, I suppose. There is a bit of a revival going on in Christianity. Heck, even a lot of the best music these days is coming out of Christian radio stations. There are a lot of very uplifting, invigorating songs out there to listen to in the contemporary Christian genre. In some ways I envy today's youth in that young people are finding meaning and satisfaction in life. However, I still fear that maybe Christ wasn't God and that God is not the sort of God that would intervene on humanity's behalf to save us from our own self-destructive industries and ways, as we kill every other living thing on the planet in the pursuit of water, food and fossil fuel.

I'm reminded of what recent anthropologists pieced together of what may have happened on Easter Island. Basically, Easter Island seems to have been a vibrant society for a long time until their practices killed all the trees on the island, rendering the construction of boats and buildings impossible. There's some evidence that the Easter Islanders went through various religious revivals as they changed from building statues for the "Mana" of the gods to creating a worship of fertility gods as the Island's situation became desperate. Of course, European explorers found Easter Island before everyone died off. The explorers found an island barren of trees and people on the verge of starvation. I suppose one can sort of hope that maybe God sent explorers from others culture just in the nick of time to save the day, but who knows, right?

In the back of my mind I liken our own era of Christian revivalism as an attempt to rejuvenate our society which is encountering environmental crises. In the end, maybe "Mana" didn't save the Easter Islanders, getting connected to outsiders did. Will we be able to save our own society today through religious revivalism or will some outside entity, extraterrestrial in nature have to come and save us? And if there are no outside, extraterrestrial beings out there to save us, then what? Do we simply perish unlike the people of Easter Island who got saved in the nick of time from their local environmental catastrophe?

Maybe it comes down to whether or not there is a benevolent, loving God. I hope there is, but the skeptic in me who watched Carl Sagan religiously on PBS growing up has his doubts.

[Age]

Christianity isn't a bad thing.

This is like saying and claiming that "americanism" or "americanity" is not a bad thing. But, what is "christianity" and "americanity" to you, exactly?

And, is your own personal version of the those things the exact same as what everyone else has or holds?

I see a lot of young people today getting a lot of fulfillment out of going to church and being involved in community that comes with going to church.

Has there ever been a time throughout human history where a lot of young people did not get fulfillment out of what they were to to accept and believe was true?

My generation, of course, grew up watching and listening to Carl Sagan and reading Sartre, Camus, Nietzsche and other influential atheist intellectuals. So we're kind of the lost generation, I suppose. There is a bit of a revival going on in Christianity.

What part of the planet do you live and how great an area do you have a perspective of and from here?

Heck, even a lot of the best music these days is coming out of Christian radio stations.

Says who?

There are a lot of very uplifting, invigorating songs out there to listen to in the contemporary Christian genre. In some ways I envy today's youth in that young people are finding meaning and satisfaction in life.

So, to you, a lot of people of 'your generation's, whatever that actually means and entails, did not find meaning and satisfaction in 'their youth', right?

Have you ever considered just how narrowed and small a field your views of things could actually be here?

However, I still fear that maybe Christ wasn't God and that God is not the sort of God that would intervene on humanity's behalf to save us from our own self-destructive industries and ways, as we kill every other living thing on the planet in the pursuit of water, food and fossil fuel.

1. So-called "christ" was called and referred to as 'son-of-God' was it not?

2. Have you human beings ever killed each other over water, food, or fossil fuel?

I know that you have certainly killed over you 'love-of-money', and thus have killed for greed.

I'm reminded of what recent anthropologists pieced together of what may have happened on Easter Island. Basically, Easter Island seems to have been a vibrant society for a long time until their practices killed all the trees on the island, rendering the construction of boats and buildings impossible. There's some evidence that the Easter Islanders went through various religious revivals as they changed from building statues for the "Mana" of the gods to creating a worship of fertility gods as the Island's situation became desperate. Of course, European explorers found Easter Island before everyone died off. The explorers found an island barren of trees and people on the verge of starvation. I suppose one can sort of hope that maybe God sent explorers from others culture just in the nick of time to save the day, but who knows, right?

What is actually known is far, far more Accurate and Correct, than these type of suppositions are.

In the back of my mind I liken our own era of Christian revivalism as an attempt to rejuvenate our society which is encountering environmental crises. In the end, maybe "Mana" didn't save the Easter Islanders, getting connected to outsiders did. Will we be able to save our own society today through religious revivalism or will some outside entity, extraterrestrial in nature have to come and save us? And if there are no outside, extraterrestrial beings out there to save us, then what? Do we simply perish unlike the people of Easter Island who got saved in the nick of time from their local environmental catastrophe?

Maybe it comes down to whether or not there is a benevolent, loving God.

That you adult human beings do not want to listen to and hear God, and much prefer to just continue on with your never ending desire for 'more money' has absolutely no bearing on the irrefutable Fact that some Thing exists, which can be known as, and has gone by the name and label, 'God'.

I hope there is, but the skeptic in me who watched Carl Sagan religiously on PBS growing up has his doubts.

Okay.

[Gary Childress]

Christianity isn't a bad thing.

This is like saying and claiming that "americanism" or "americanity" is not a bad thing. But, what is "christianity" and "americanity" to you, exactly?

And, is your own personal version of the those things the exact same as what everyone else has or holds?

I see a lot of young people today getting a lot of fulfillment out of going to church and being involved in community that comes with going to church.

Has there ever been a time throughout human history where a lot of young people did not get fulfillment out of what they were to to accept and believe was true?

My generation, of course, grew up watching and listening to Carl Sagan and reading Sartre, Camus, Nietzsche and other influential atheist intellectuals. So we're kind of the lost generation, I suppose. There is a bit of a revival going on in Christianity.

What part of the planet do you live and how great an area do you have a perspective of and from here?

Heck, even a lot of the best music these days is coming out of Christian radio stations.

Says who?

There are a lot of very uplifting, invigorating songs out there to listen to in the contemporary Christian genre. In some ways I envy today's youth in that young people are finding meaning and satisfaction in life.

So, to you, a lot of people of 'your generation's, whatever that actually means and entails, did not find meaning and satisfaction in 'their youth', right?

Have you ever considered just how narrowed and small a field your views of things could actually be here?

However, I still fear that maybe Christ wasn't God and that God is not the sort of God that would intervene on humanity's behalf to save us from our own self-destructive industries and ways, as we kill every other living thing on the planet in the pursuit of water, food and fossil fuel.

1. So-called "christ" was called and referred to as 'son-of-God' was it not?

2. Have you human beings ever killed each other over water, food, or fossil fuel?

I know that you have certainly killed over you 'love-of-money', and thus have killed for greed.

I'm reminded of what recent anthropologists pieced together of what may have happened on Easter Island. Basically, Easter Island seems to have been a vibrant society for a long time until their practices killed all the trees on the island, rendering the construction of boats and buildings impossible. There's some evidence that the Easter Islanders went through various religious revivals as they changed from building statues for the "Mana" of the gods to creating a worship of fertility gods as the Island's situation became desperate. Of course, European explorers found Easter Island before everyone died off. The explorers found an island barren of trees and people on the verge of starvation. I suppose one can sort of hope that maybe God sent explorers from others culture just in the nick of time to save the day, but who knows, right?

What is actually known is far, far more Accurate and Correct, than these type of suppositions are.

In the back of my mind I liken our own era of Christian revivalism as an attempt to rejuvenate our society which is encountering environmental crises. In the end, maybe "Mana" didn't save the Easter Islanders, getting connected to outsiders did. Will we be able to save our own society today through religious revivalism or will some outside entity, extraterrestrial in nature have to come and save us? And if there are no outside, extraterrestrial beings out there to save us, then what? Do we simply perish unlike the people of Easter Island who got saved in the nick of time from their local environmental catastrophe?

Maybe it comes down to whether or not there is a benevolent, loving God.

That you adult human beings do not want to listen to and hear God, and much prefer to just continue on with your never ending desire for 'more money' has absolutely no bearing on the irrefutable Fact that some Thing exists, which can be known as, and has gone by the name and label, 'God'.

I hope there is, but the skeptic in me who watched Carl Sagan religiously on PBS growing up has his doubts.

Okay.

People I have encountered at Church seem generally happier to me and nicer to me than most people I encounter. Of course, I'm not in their shoes but the ones that I know seem to be happy and fulfilled in their lives. I mean, I'm past having a "relationship" with Christ or whatever, but they seem to be raising families that are very much connected with other families in the church. I don't know. Again, this is me looking in from outside, so of course, looks can be deceiving. But with little else to go on, from what I've witnessed, Christian congregations seem to be trustworthy communities of people that can count on for help from each other if the need arises. I haven't seen that very much in the secular world which I grew up in. Many of my secular fellows from high school are unmarried or divorced or without kids. Things seem to be different to a large extent in the younger Christian revival happening around me from what I've witnessed. Again, it's just coming from my own perspective. Maybe others have different perspectives, however, I couldn't say who has the overall right perspective and who doesn't.

[Age]

Christianity isn't a bad thing.

This is like saying and claiming that "americanism" or "americanity" is not a bad thing. But, what is "christianity" and "americanity" to you, exactly?

And, is your own personal version of the those things the exact same as what everyone else has or holds?

I see a lot of young people today getting a lot of fulfillment out of going to church and being involved in community that comes with going to church.

Has there ever been a time throughout human history where a lot of young people did not get fulfillment out of what they were to to accept and believe was true?

My generation, of course, grew up watching and listening to Carl Sagan and reading Sartre, Camus, Nietzsche and other influential atheist intellectuals. So we're kind of the lost generation, I suppose. There is a bit of a revival going on in Christianity.

What part of the planet do you live and how great an area do you have a perspective of and from here?

Heck, even a lot of the best music these days is coming out of Christian radio stations.

Says who?

There are a lot of very uplifting, invigorating songs out there to listen to in the contemporary Christian genre. In some ways I envy today's youth in that young people are finding meaning and satisfaction in life.

So, to you, a lot of people of 'your generation's, whatever that actually means and entails, did not find meaning and satisfaction in 'their youth', right?

Have you ever considered just how narrowed and small a field your views of things could actually be here?

However, I still fear that maybe Christ wasn't God and that God is not the sort of God that would intervene on humanity's behalf to save us from our own self-destructive industries and ways, as we kill every other living thing on the planet in the pursuit of water, food and fossil fuel.

1. So-called "christ" was called and referred to as 'son-of-God' was it not?

2. Have you human beings ever killed each other over water, food, or fossil fuel?

I know that you have certainly killed over you 'love-of-money', and thus have killed for greed.

I'm reminded of what recent anthropologists pieced together of what may have happened on Easter Island. Basically, Easter Island seems to have been a vibrant society for a long time until their practices killed all the trees on the island, rendering the construction of boats and buildings impossible. There's some evidence that the Easter Islanders went through various religious revivals as they changed from building statues for the "Mana" of the gods to creating a worship of fertility gods as the Island's situation became desperate. Of course, European explorers found Easter Island before everyone died off. The explorers found an island barren of trees and people on the verge of starvation. I suppose one can sort of hope that maybe God sent explorers from others culture just in the nick of time to save the day, but who knows, right?

What is actually known is far, far more Accurate and Correct, than these type of suppositions are.

In the back of my mind I liken our own era of Christian revivalism as an attempt to rejuvenate our society which is encountering environmental crises. In the end, maybe "Mana" didn't save the Easter Islanders, getting connected to outsiders did. Will we be able to save our own society today through religious revivalism or will some outside entity, extraterrestrial in nature have to come and save us? And if there are no outside, extraterrestrial beings out there to save us, then what? Do we simply perish unlike the people of Easter Island who got saved in the nick of time from their local environmental catastrophe?

Maybe it comes down to whether or not there is a benevolent, loving God.

That you adult human beings do not want to listen to and hear God, and much prefer to just continue on with your never ending desire for 'more money' has absolutely no bearing on the irrefutable Fact that some Thing exists, which can be known as, and has gone by the name and label, 'God'.

I hope there is, but the skeptic in me who watched Carl Sagan religiously on PBS growing up has his doubts.

Okay.

People I have encountered at Church seem generally happier to me and nicer to me than most people I encounter. Of course, I'm not in their shoes but the ones that I know seem to be happy and fulfilled in their lives. I mean, I'm past having a "relationship" with Christ or whatever, but they seem to be raising families that are very much connected with other families in the church. I don't know. Again, this is me looking in from outside, so of course, looks can be deceiving. But with little else to go on, from what I've witnessed, Christian congregations seem to be trustworthy communities of people that can count on for help from each other if the need arises. I haven't seen that very much in the secular world which I grew up in. Many of my secular fellows from high school are unmarried or divorced or without kids. Things seem to be different to a large extent in the younger Christian revival happening around me from what I've witnessed. Again, it's just coming from my own perspective. Maybe others have different perspectives, however, I couldn't say who has the overall right perspective and who doesn't.

Okay, but within every religion one can see 'good things'.

[ThinkOfOne]

People I have encountered at Church seem generally happier to me and nicer to me than most people I encounter. Of course, I'm not in their shoes but the ones that I know seem to be happy and fulfilled in their lives. I mean, I'm past having a "relationship" with Christ or whatever, but they seem to be raising families that are very much connected with other families in the church. I don't know. Again, this is me looking in from outside, so of course, looks can be deceiving. But with little else to go on, from what I've witnessed, Christian congregations seem to be trustworthy communities of people that can count on for help from each other if the need arises. I haven't seen that very much in the secular world which I grew up in. Many of my secular fellows from high school are unmarried or divorced or without kids. Things seem to be different to a large extent in the younger Christian revival happening around me from what I've witnessed. Again, it's just coming from my own perspective. Maybe others have different perspectives, however, I couldn't say who has the overall right perspective and who doesn't.

Not to burst your bubble, actually in the hopes of doing just that, by and large Christians are what Jesus described as "white-washed tombs" if not "wolves in sheep's clothing". In other words, they work really hard to make the outside look good, in order to hide their corrupt insides.

The underlying reason for their corrupt insides is that the foundation for their system of beliefs is unsound. Fairly recently a buddhist I know told me that he had started to attend some services - which surprised me given his beliefs. I asked him if he knew the core beliefs of Christianity. He seemed unsure, so I told him. His response?: "Sounds like the makings for psychopaths". Not that all, or even most Christians are psychopaths, the makings are still there.

As was once said, "Your Christians are so unlike your Christ".

[promethean75]

Problems with Christianity; it over emphasizes virtues like forgiveness, patience, sympathy and compassion, and in doing so, inadvertently supports a general decline in pathos by being too tolerant, too soft, to passive toward failures and mistakes. It allows people to go to shit becuz it doesn't negatively reinforce bad behavior and habits. It's like a sheltering system for everything that would perish on its own if not for being protected by the system. Even subtly encourages surrendering to failure by constantly defacing the body and the fallen, imperfect material world we exist in. Its wretchedness. It constantly reminds u that you're a sinner. Finally u begin to use this indictment as an excuse to be a slob rather than an official warning against becoming one. This irony is not wasted on our resident christians. IC, how many push-ups can u do right now if u dropped and did some this very instant?

[Veritas Aequitas]

Christianity isn't a bad thing. I see a lot of young people today getting a lot of fulfillment out of going to church and being involved in community that comes with going to church. My generation, of course, grew up watching and listening to Carl Sagan and reading Sartre, Camus, Nietzsche and other influential atheist intellectuals. So we're kind of the lost generation, I suppose. There is a bit of a revival going on in Christianity.

Maybe it comes down to whether or not there is a benevolent, loving God. I hope there is, but the skeptic in me who watched Carl Sagan religiously on PBS growing up has his doubts.

First;
Kant: It is Impossible to Prove God Exists as Real
viewtopic.php?t=42052
New: It is Impossible for God to be Real
viewtopic.php?t=40229

However there is an evolutionary default within all humans to adapt to the concept of externalness and to believe in something powerful [the monotheistic God being the most powerful] to soothe the cognitive dissonance from the inherent unavoidable existential crisis.

The fact that 90% of people in the world are theists confirms the very powerful psychological forces of that evolutionary default that drove them to believe in a God [of varieties].
While the inherent evolutionary default of theism is optimal for the majority at present, it has its cons which must be noted.

To date there are about 10% of people [non-theists] [due to various reasons] who are able to rid themselves of the psychological shackle of that inherent evolutionary default [current resultant i.e. theism].
Even at present while there are non-theists, the fact is the evolutionary default of theism is still inherent within their brain; non-theists are only able to maintain their status depending on their internal ability to modulate [inhibit] the impulses of the inherent 'theism' within them.

So, whether a person is a theist [majority] or non-theist [minority] depends on the state of their psychological self to modulate the inherent theistic forces within them; this power of modulation is managed by certain neural networks.

The fact is the neural networks that modulate or suppress the inherent "theistic" forces are organic thus vulnerable to be under-developed, damaged, weakened due to atrophy of the related neurons due to inevitable aging and other reasons.

The majority of the 90% of theists has an under-developed theistic-modulator [inhibitor], thus their clinging to theism to soothe the terrible 'pains and sufferings' from cognitive dissonances.

However, even some are non-theistic [atheists] they may for some reasons have a weakened theistic-modulator and thus experience the terrible 'pains and sufferings' from cognitive dissonances of the existential crisis.
Note the saying, "there are no atheists in foxholes", is because atheists are likely to revert to theism in the face of death or other traumatic conditions.

Such terrible 'pains and sufferings' can be immediately soothed by adopting theism; i.e. reverting to the inherent evolutionary default position.
This is what happened to the one-time-world's-most-famous-atheist, Anthony Flew during the later part of his life at 81 years old.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antony_Flew
For much of his career Flew was an advocate of atheism, arguing that one should presuppose atheism until empirical evidence suggesting the existence of a God surfaces.
However, in 2004 he changed his position, and stated that he now believed in the existence of an intelligent designer of the universe,[11] shocking colleagues and fellow atheists.
In order to further clarify his personal conception of God, Flew openly made an allegiance to Deism, ....

Flew's case is a good example of the atrophy of neurons in his theistic-modulator [in old age] where he could not naturally modulate the terrible 'pains and sufferings' [subliminal] from cognitive dissonances of the existential crisis, thus naturally reverted to a God [deism] to relieve the subliminal sufferings.

Belief in God rises with age, even in atheist nations
https://news.uchicago.edu/story/belief- ... st-nations#:

There are many who believe in a God even they understand there is no real God, they believe in a God, i.e. a useful illusion, as long as it can soothe their terrible psychological pains and sufferings which is a better option than dangerous opioids.

In the above situation where one's the evolutionary default is weakened or damaged, the most natural & optimal solution is to believe in a God.
The question of which God [theism, deism, pantheism, panentheism] depends on one's state of the theistic-modulator and psychological conditions.

If it has to be theism, then I strongly recommend Christianity, i.e. despite whatever negative, it has its overriding pacifist maxim of 'love all, even enemies' in contrast the supposed 'religion of peace {pieces}' which is heavily evil laden.

[godelian]

However, I still fear that maybe Christ wasn't God

Does he need to have been God? What difference does it even make? He's not around any longer anyway. He died already. We will get to know the true story on the Last Day. So, patience is a virtue.

God is not the sort of God that would intervene on humanity's behalf to save us from our own self-destructive industries and ways, as we kill every other living thing on the planet in the pursuit of water, food and fossil fuel.

I do not believe that we will manage to completely kill off life itself on the planet. Maybe we'll manage to temporarily reduce its carrying capacity from billions to just millions, but so what? In my opinion, that is simply irrelevant.

Seriously, the sky is not falling.

We don't need sixteen year-old girls to tell us what to do, just because she bought into the scare mongering.

[Gary Childress]

However, I still fear that maybe Christ wasn't God

Does he need to have been God? What difference does it even make? He's not around any longer anyway. He died already. We will get to know the true story on the Last Day. So, patience is a virtue.

God is not the sort of God that would intervene on humanity's behalf to save us from our own self-destructive industries and ways, as we kill every other living thing on the planet in the pursuit of water, food and fossil fuel.

I do not believe that we will manage to completely kill off life itself on the planet. Maybe we'll manage to temporarily reduce its carrying capacity from billions to just millions, but so what? In my opinion, that is simply irrelevant.

Seriously, the sky is not falling.

We don't need sixteen year-old girls to tell us what to do, just because she bought into the scare mongering.

Great, you're a genocidal maniac to boot. [/conversation]

[godelian]

However, I still fear that maybe Christ wasn't God

Does he need to have been God? What difference does it even make? He's not around any longer anyway. He died already. We will get to know the true story on the Last Day. So, patience is a virtue.

God is not the sort of God that would intervene on humanity's behalf to save us from our own self-destructive industries and ways, as we kill every other living thing on the planet in the pursuit of water, food and fossil fuel.

I do not believe that we will manage to completely kill off life itself on the planet. Maybe we'll manage to temporarily reduce its carrying capacity from billions to just millions, but so what? In my opinion, that is simply irrelevant.

Seriously, the sky is not falling.

We don't need sixteen year-old girls to tell us what to do, just because she bought into the scare mongering.

Great, you're a genocidal maniac to boot. [/conversation]

I personally do not kill anyone. I merely sometimes benefit from others doing it.

[promethean75]

"We don't need sixteen year-old girls to tell us what to do"

Speak for yourself, pal. I'd love it if sixteen year old girls told me what to do.

Lol a sixteen year old dominatrix. How adorable would that be. It would end up being like a bad caricature tho becuz you'd have this young kid lacking in stature and maturity tryna act all hard and commanding and sado-sexy but it would all be so contrived that it wouldn't work.