What is Fact is Intersubjective

[Age]

I can 'read' and 'see' what's going on here just fine.

If only you knew "atla". If only you knew.

We already had millions of you.

And there are billions of you.

But just like them, you are incapable of proving your mind claim, therefore I have every reason to view you as just a delusional liar, nothing more.

Are there really millions claiming my mind claim to you "atla"?

Don't be an idiot. No luck. Similar ones and not so similar ones, and not to me personally. Retard.

Absolutely no one else has claimed there is only One Mind, like I have.

See, no one can refute my claim.

As already proved True. But, like those who believed the sun revolves the earth could not see the actual irrefutable Truth while they were believing otherwise, you "atla" also cannot see the actual and irrefutable Truth here, nor even what is actually happening and occurring here.

[FlashDangerpants]

So the fact is that Pluto is a officially a dwarf-planet and not a typical planet [as defined].
This is a fact that is grounded on intersubjective consensus [thus intersubjective] within the International Astronomical Union (IAU) which is conditioned upon a human-based embodied science-physics-cosmological-astronomy-FSRK.
There is no other way to establish this fact that Pluto is a dwarf planet.
Do you have any other basis to claim the fact that "Pluto is a dwarf planet"?

That's a designation really, and a contingent one at that. Astronomers currently sort objects that orbit the sun into multiple categories with planets being the largest, asteroids the smallest and dwarf planets in between if I am not mistaken. The categorization is a matter of convention, and conventions are not typically thought of as "objective".

What causes Pluto to fall below the current bounds of the conventional definition of a planet would appear to be its size. The diameter, circumference, weight, velocity, displacement and whatnot of the object in outer space that we call Pluto are among its objective properties and those are used to determine that if an object which orbits the sun is larger than X but smaller than Y then it is a dwarf planet. The true size of Pluto is not intersubjective information except in so far as there are other arbitrary conventions for units of measurement etc. The object is the size that it is, and objectively so.

The designation is not the critical issue here.
Before we designate, describe what is known, it must have emerged and realized in tandem with the human conditions.
see:
Reality: There are the Emergence & Realization [of Reality] Processes Prior to Perceiving, Knowing & Describing
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40145

What is critical are the contingent conditions, i.e. the human-based embodied science-physics-cosmological-astronomy [IAU]-FSRK that is further conditioned upon the 3.5 billion years of organic history of evolution and 13.7 billion years of physical history.
These are all the imperative conditions that intersubjectively ground what is designated Pluto as a dwarf planet.
Thus when we assert that it is fact [FSRK-ed] Pluto is a dwarf planet, we cannot ignore all the above necessary conditions.


It is the same for every element bolded above and others above; they are all imperatively conditioned upon all the above imperative conditions, thus intersubjective, i.e. their objectivity is intersubjectivity.

It there are true size for Pluto?
How can you measure the actual diameter of Pluto when its surface is so irregular all over the planet?
Ultimately what is the true size for Pluto is an estimation upon intersubjective consensus, thus intersubjectivity, and that in an intersubjective reality.

Btw, what is fact to you is merely a logical and linguistic fact, i.e. it is not a realistic fact.
That is why you can only insist your what is fact is objectively so; i.e. so empty.
A realistic fact is one that is credible and objective as grounded upon a human-based FSRK of which the scientific FSRK is the most realistic, credible and objective.

You missed the point, so I am just going to make it again and keep it real simple for you.
The properties of the object Pluto in outer space are the properties inherent to that body.
The properties we observe about that body from great distance are our best current description of the properties that inhere to the object itself, they are not the properties of a distant object but of our description of it.
So the real object has a lot of atoms at one level of description, at another it has gelological formations and gasses and whatnot, at another level of description it has speed mass and velocity.
Each of those descriptions is accurate or not, what makes it accurate is not how many people agree about them, but the states of the incredibly distant space object itself.
However, if Astronomers classify that space rock millions of miles away as a real planet one day, and a dwarf planet the next, nobody in the universe would think the planet had changed in order to become a dwarf, they understand that a description has been changed by a process of designation.

The designation is intersubjective if you like. I don't care, nobody else cares either. Have that one.

And not, a human-based scientific FSRK is grounded on intersubjectivity, if not how?

Your argument structure is, again, not very good. You are trying to establish that there are intersubjective facts and then via false syllogism assume that all facts are therefore intersubjecive. Be better than that please.

Nope.

I claim ALL facts [reality, truth, knowledge, objectivity] must be conditioned upon a human-based FSRK which is conditioned upon a 13.7 billion years of history.
Because it is human-based, i.e. collective of human subjects, it has to be intersubjective, if not how else?
Therefore ALL facts are intersubjective.

There are no god-eye-view standalone facts as you are alluding to.
Thus the only other most realistic option are FSRK-ed facts.

Your 'what is fact' is based on traditional language-based analytic philosophy which is now 'dead' as I had presented here;

Rise & Fall of Analytic Philosophy
viewtopic.php?t=41868

Analytic Philosophy emerged to counter Kant Copernican Revolution where reality is leveraged upon the human condition.
It was Frege who started it in attempting to bridge the subject with the object, but destroyed by
Russell who was countered by
Wittgenstein who countered himself via
the later Wittgenstein
later if was logical position that failed
the we have Ordinary Language philosophy which also failed.
Up to this point traditional analytic philosophy has failed in its original objective.

If you are shifting into post-analytic [veering toward pragmatism], then you what is fact [mind independent, value free] is not valid anymore. Putnam's no fact-value distinction, Rorty did away with mind-independent facts.

What nonsense are you on here? Why did you lose the ability to write in sentences all of a sudden? That article you linked is a hyperbolic shambles and you don't even really understand much of it, so why are you getting carried away like this?

You still think the realism/antirealism divide is important, you are a century out of date, you can't accuse me of being behind the times.

[promethean75]

"If you cannot show any way nor prove the existence of a real thing [or reality] independent of perception, then you are merely speculating which possibly could be a falsehood or illusion."

If u 'n me are standing together in a field and i suddenly drop dead, do u cease to exist? Indeed u do becuz it was my act of perceiving u that made u exist, right? Nobody else is around. F.D. Pants is at the pub, IC is at church, Gary is grocery shopping for his mum, Self-Lightening is meditating up in the mountains somewhere and Henry is at the flea market looking at shotguns.

What u have to do to get out of this one is posit the existence of 'god' to be the perceiver responsible for making u exist after i drop dead and stop perceiving u.

Check and mate.

[Atla]

If only you knew "atla". If only you knew.


And there are billions of you.


Are there really millions claiming my mind claim to you "atla"?

Don't be an idiot. No luck. Similar ones and not so similar ones, and not to me personally. Retard.

Absolutely no one else has claimed there is only One Mind, like I have.

See, no one can refute my claim.

As already proved True. But, like those who believed the sun revolves the earth could not see the actual irrefutable Truth while they were believing otherwise, you "atla" also cannot see the actual and irrefutable Truth here, nor even what is actually happening and occurring here.

What the fuck are you on about now, the One Mind is one of the most obvious ideas. The details can vary, but you can't honestly think that you're absolutely the first one to claim it. Maybe you're the first one with your exact minute details on it. How self-obsessed are you?

For the spokeswoman of a transcendent omniscient intelligence, you sure know less than a rock. Like for example the religion of Hinduism is about a kind of One Mind. I considered the One Mind idea a few times too in various forms.

You are incapable of proving your mind claim, therefore I have every reason to view you as just a delusional liar, nothing more.

Edit: I typed "there is only one mind" into Google and got 1.2 million hits.

[Atla]

What are you on about 'now'.

you "atla" were the one who introduced 'infinite regress' here.

When did I say anything, and what did I actually say, which makes you believe that what I was saying, somewhere in this forum, was partially based on some so-called 'faulty handling' of some yet to be known by me wikipedia only definition of the 'infinite regress' term or phrase.

Talk about another prime example of 'deflection' here. But, deflection is what is used by deniers, for deception.


Not that you would ever clarify and answer, but what so-called alleged 'dishonest/dumb trick of mine are you even going on about here 'now'.

More pathetic deflection. I just mentioned (again) what it's called that you misused for your fallacy all these years.

What are you even on about?

There is no 'infinite regress' in what I have been saying and claiming. As all has been, literally, 're-solved' already.

you have just not yet been prepared for this, and so are not yet ready to learn, see, comprehend, and understand this 'resolution' to all of 'your problems' and issues here.

I merely introduced the name, since you are too incompetent to know it.

Okay, but how that relates to anything here, absolutely no one has absolutely any idea nor clue about.

First things first. You are incapable of proving your mind claim, therefore I have every reason to view you as just a delusional liar, more.

Already proved. you are, literally, just being to STUPID to recognize and see it.

That's the problem, you should have processed that infinite regress instead of employing that utter logic fail, thinking that you're so smart.

First things first. You are incapable of proving your mind claim, therefore I have every reason to view you as just a delusional liar, nothing more.

[Iwannaplato]

This one keeps proving that it just does not know how to actually read, listen, see, and hear here.

This one has no idea how to collaboratively communicate. This one does not know how to move discussions forward.

This one, still, has absolutely no idea nor clue as to what I have actually been writing, saying, and meaning here.

This one is very good at telling people what it isn't saying, but a very poor communicator about what it is saying.

you keep on keeping on 'missing' things here.

Yet another example of this one. not understanding collaboration in communication, even to the level of the average communicator at this time.

Let us see if you can read this, No one has ever asked. Do you understand?

This one is showing its confusion over language - by saying that no one has asked - and only understands part of what is happening in communication. It thinks it no one has ever asked. This may be a side effect of its particular neurological make-up or it may be due to other deficits/confusions. Do you understand?

[Iwannaplato]

OK. So, even though it might help you learn how to communicate better...

If you presented a link to the post(s) where you did this would help you 'learn how to communicate better'.', though practice.

yes it might, obviously.

And would help Atla know where you already proved this...
you are deciding not to link to that proof.
Understood.
It is my view that you will not link to where you proved it.
It is my view that you cannot do that.

Okay. your views are perfectly normal and even understandable. But, you are still missing what is actually happening and occurring here.

Another post that shows this one does not understand how to collaboratively communicate and ends up often at why might be key moments in discussions only giving negative information and judgments. Does it understand?

[Age]

Don't be an idiot. No luck. Similar ones and not so similar ones, and not to me personally. Retard.

Absolutely no one else has claimed there is only One Mind, like I have.

See, no one can refute my claim.

As already proved True. But, like those who believed the sun revolves the earth could not see the actual irrefutable Truth while they were believing otherwise, you "atla" also cannot see the actual and irrefutable Truth here, nor even what is actually happening and occurring here.

What the fuck are you on about now, the One Mind is one of the most obvious ideas. The details can vary, but you can't honestly think that you're absolutely the first one to claim it.

I never said absolutely anything like this. Why do you assume so many Wrong and False things here "atla"?

I will, once again, suggest that you read just the words I say and write, and just them only, from a Truly OPEN perspective, and not from your preconception perspective. Obviously, you keep get led further and further astray here as you keep 'looking', 'reading', and 'seeing' from your previously obtained beliefs and presumptions.

Have you ever considered just 'looking from' the Truly OPEN Mind perspective only, before?

If not, then you should try it sometime. you might find and see things you never have before.

Maybe you're the first one with your exact minute details on it.

So, after some consideration, what you first assumed, and first jumped to the conclusion of, may well not be exactly as true and right as you first believed it was, right?

How self-obsessed are you?

In relation to 'what', exactly?

Also, and by the way, just pointing out a fact, which you also, after some deliberation, came to consider, and somewhat agreed with anyway, is not, exactly, being 'self-obsessed' at all. Well not in the way you are trying to make out and claim here, anyway.

For the spokeswoman of a transcendent omniscient intelligence, you sure know less than a rock.

If you say and believe so "atla".

Also, why have 'you', as a 'non rock', already concluded and believe that 'I' am a 'woman'?

Are 'you' able to explain how you arrived at 'this conclusion' here, exactly, "atla"?

If yes, then great, and will you?

If no, then why not?

Like for example the religion of Hinduism is about a kind of One Mind. I considered the One Mind idea a few times too in various forms.

Okay.

You are incapable of proving your mind claim, therefore I have every reason to view you as just a delusional liar, nothing more.

But It has already been proved irrefutably True. you are just not able to comprehend and see this fact. For the very reason I have already explained here to the readers.

Edit: I typed "there is only one mind" into Google and got 1.2 million hits.

Okay. I got 5.26 billion results. Now, I wonder how many are 'mine'.

How many so-called 'hits' do you get on your device when you type in, 'There are many minds'?

And, was you typing what you have here leading to any actual thing, which you wanted to say and report here?

[Age]

More pathetic deflection. I just mentioned (again) what it's called that you misused for your fallacy all these years.

What are you even on about?

There is no 'infinite regress' in what I have been saying and claiming. As all has been, literally, 're-solved' already.

you have just not yet been prepared for this, and so are not yet ready to learn, see, comprehend, and understand this 'resolution' to all of 'your problems' and issues here.

I merely introduced the name, since you are too incompetent to know it.

Okay, but how that relates to anything here, absolutely no one has absolutely any idea nor clue about.

First things first. You are incapable of proving your mind claim, therefore I have every reason to view you as just a delusional liar, more.

Already proved. you are, literally, just being to STUPID to recognize and see it.

That's the problem, you should have processed that infinite regress instead of employing that utter logic fail, thinking that you're so smart.

But there is absolutely no actual 'problem' at all here. As can be clearly seen and proved absolutely and irrefutably True here, as well.

Anyway, you do not yet understand that 'infinite regress' and what I was saying and alluding to here.

[Iwannaplato]

I merely introduced the name, since you are too incompetent to know it.

Okay, but how that relates to anything here, absolutely no one has absolutely any idea nor clue about.

First things first. You are incapable of proving your mind claim, therefore I have every reason to view you as just a delusional liar, more.

Already proved. you are, literally, just being to STUPID to recognize and see it.

Incorrectly quoting me. Probably this was also perfectly planned by you.
Ken was quite humble. Age used to be humbler.
Now he likes to imply infallibility.
And his posts show a lack of ability to collaborate.
This is a problem many narcissists have.

[Age]

This one keeps proving that it just does not know how to actually read, listen, see, and hear here.

This one has no idea how to collaboratively communicate.

Or, maybe I do. And, it is you who does not recognize that by 'ignoring' others, you have already proved True that you do not 'collaboratively communicate'.

This one does not know how to move discussions forward.

And, this one 'now' appears to not recognize that by 'ignoring' 'the other', like this one does, stops discussions moving forward, absolutely and completely.

This one, still, has absolutely no idea nor clue as to what I have actually been writing, saying, and meaning here.

This one is very good at telling people what it isn't saying, but a very poor communicator about what it is saying.

But, it is 'my intended audience', who I have been speaking and writing to, and for, here, who already know, exactly, what I have been pointing out, showing, actually even proving, and thus 'revealing' here.

you "iwannaplato", however, keep on missing just about all of this here.

you keep on keeping on 'missing' things here.

Yet another example of this one. not understanding collaboration in communication, even to the level of the average communicator at this time.

Just maybe I know far more than you have even imagined "iwannaplato, and, just maybe, also, I have already pointed out, showed, revealed, and proved what is needed for True 'collaborative and effective communication', and am continually doing so. And, with the help of 'you' here, personally "iwannaplato".

Let us see if you can read this, No one has ever asked. Do you understand?

This one is showing its confusion over language - by saying that no one has asked - and only understands part of what is happening in communication. It thinks it no one has ever asked. [/qutoe]

This one continues to share is delusional thinking, which is caused and created by it continually looking at and reading 'my words' from assumptions and beliefs.

I never even thought such an outrageous thing. But, because this one keeps reading 'my words' from its own already obtained preconceptions, it, literally, cannot see things clearly and Correctly here.

So, it keeps on expressing and sharing these clearly Truly False and Wrong assumptions and beliefs that it has, and continues to make up and believe are true.

This may be a side effect of its particular neurological make-up or it may be due to other deficits/confusions. Do you understand?

Who are you asking this question to, exactly?

you 'were' talking 'about me', and not 'to nor with me', remember?

Have you even considered that you could have a reading/comprehension deficit here, or some listening and hearing inability, or are even somewhat confused here?

Or, is any and all 'wrong' here, lay upon 'me' only, to you, here?

[Age]

OK. So, even though it might help you learn how to communicate better...


And would help Atla know where you already proved this...
you are deciding not to link to that proof.
Understood.
It is my view that you will not link to where you proved it.
It is my view that you cannot do that.

Okay. your views are perfectly normal and even understandable. But, you are still missing what is actually happening and occurring here.

Another post that shows this one does not understand how to collaboratively communicate and ends up often at why might be key moments in discussions only giving negative information and judgments. Does it understand?

Has this one forgotten that it, supposedly, has 'me' on 'ignore', but then, reads my writings.

Has this one forgotten that it, claimed, that it was never, ever going to talk to me again, but then, did?

[Iwannaplato]

Has this one forgotten that it, supposedly, has 'me' on 'ignore', but then, reads my writings.

This one sees every assertion as permanent. It asserts and these are mere views. Others assert and they are beliefs held to be irrefutable and absolute to this one. It now has shown assumed that it being put on ignore was permanent or was asserted to be permanent.

Has this one forgotten that it, claimed, that it was never, ever going to talk to me again, but then, did?

As you would say. I never said that. Does it understand now?

[Atla]

Absolutely no one else has claimed there is only One Mind, like I have.

See, no one can refute my claim.

As already proved True. But, like those who believed the sun revolves the earth could not see the actual irrefutable Truth while they were believing otherwise, you "atla" also cannot see the actual and irrefutable Truth here, nor even what is actually happening and occurring here.

What the fuck are you on about now, the One Mind is one of the most obvious ideas. The details can vary, but you can't honestly think that you're absolutely the first one to claim it.

I never said absolutely anything like this. Why do you assume so many Wrong and False things here "atla"?

I will, once again, suggest that you read just the words I say and write, and just them only, from a Truly OPEN perspective, and not from your preconception perspective. Obviously, you keep get led further and further astray here as you keep 'looking', 'reading', and 'seeing' from your previously obtained beliefs and presumptions.

Have you ever considered just 'looking from' the Truly OPEN Mind perspective only, before?

If not, then you should try it sometime. you might find and see things you never have before.

Maybe you're the first one with your exact minute details on it.

So, after some consideration, what you first assumed, and first jumped to the conclusion of, may well not be exactly as true and right as you first believed it was, right?

How self-obsessed are you?

In relation to 'what', exactly?

Also, and by the way, just pointing out a fact, which you also, after some deliberation, came to consider, and somewhat agreed with anyway, is not, exactly, being 'self-obsessed' at all. Well not in the way you are trying to make out and claim here, anyway.

For the spokeswoman of a transcendent omniscient intelligence, you sure know less than a rock.

If you say and believe so "atla".

Also, why have 'you', as a 'non rock', already concluded and believe that 'I' am a 'woman'?

Are 'you' able to explain how you arrived at 'this conclusion' here, exactly, "atla"?

If yes, then great, and will you?

If no, then why not?

Like for example the religion of Hinduism is about a kind of One Mind. I considered the One Mind idea a few times too in various forms.

Okay.

You are incapable of proving your mind claim, therefore I have every reason to view you as just a delusional liar, nothing more.

But It has already been proved irrefutably True. you are just not able to comprehend and see this fact. For the very reason I have already explained here to the readers.

Edit: I typed "there is only one mind" into Google and got 1.2 million hits.

Okay. I got 5.26 billion results. Now, I wonder how many are 'mine'.

How many so-called 'hits' do you get on your device when you type in, 'There are many minds'?

And, was you typing what you have here leading to any actual thing, which you wanted to say and report here?

A long, hysterical rant of a sick person who can't prove her delusions to be true. By the way many people are truly open and definitely more open than you, and still don't find this One Mind. Some kind of proof please.

First things first. You are incapable of proving your mind claim, therefore I have every reason to view you as just a delusional liar, nothing more.

[Atla]

What are you even on about?

There is no 'infinite regress' in what I have been saying and claiming. As all has been, literally, 're-solved' already.

you have just not yet been prepared for this, and so are not yet ready to learn, see, comprehend, and understand this 'resolution' to all of 'your problems' and issues here.



Okay, but how that relates to anything here, absolutely no one has absolutely any idea nor clue about.


Already proved. you are, literally, just being to STUPID to recognize and see it.

That's the problem, you should have processed that infinite regress instead of employing that utter logic fail, thinking that you're so smart.

But there is absolutely no actual 'problem' at all here. As can be clearly seen and proved absolutely and irrefutably True here, as well.

Anyway, you do not yet understand that 'infinite regress' and what I was saying and alluding to here.

First things first. You are incapable of proving your mind claim, therefore I have every reason to view you as just a delusional liar, nothing more.