Share-Prices are Objective, so is Morality

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Share-Prices are Objective, so is Morality

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Here is how Bard [AI Chat Bot] present its responses based on some sort of criteria and philosophical views;
(It is likely ChatGpt will give the same answer??)
Question wrote:Curious on how Bard-AI [You] rate the truth of knowledge?
If say, a majority of the 8+ billion of people insist the Earth is Flat, how would Bard deliberate on the truth of that claim.
What criteria would Bard rely upon to deliberate on the truth of the above.
Does Bard consider rationality, critical thinking, evidences or anything else.
Bard wrote:As a large language model, [access to up-to-date data] I strive to provide accurate and reliable information based on the data I have been trained on. I rely on several criteria to assess the truth of knowledge claims:

1. Rationality and critical thinking: I analyze information logically and identify potential inconsistencies or fallacies. I consider alternative explanations and seek evidence that supports or contradicts the claim.

2. Evidence: I give significant weight to empirical evidence, such as scientific data, historical records, and expert opinions. I seek evidence from diverse sources to ensure a comprehensive understanding of the issue.

3. Consistency with established knowledge: I compare new information with existing knowledge to identify any contradictions or inconsistencies. I consider the consensus among experts in the relevant field.

4. Transparency and source credibility: I assess the credibility of the source of information and ensure it is transparent about its methodology and data. I consider factors such as bias, funding sources, and reputation.

5. Reproducibility: I prioritize information that can be verified and replicated by others. This helps to ensure the validity and objectivity of the knowledge claim.

In the hypothetical scenario where a majority of people believe the Earth is flat, I would follow the same criteria to assess the truth of the claim. I would analyze the evidence available, including scientific data, historical records, and observations of the Earth's shape. I would also consider the methodology used to gather this evidence and the credibility of the sources.

While the majority opinion can hold some weight, it is not a definitive indicator of truth. In this case, the overwhelming scientific evidence demonstrates that the Earth is spherical. I would rely on this evidence and the established scientific consensus to conclude that the Earth is not flat, regardless of the majority opinion.

It's important to note that the evaluation of knowledge claims can be complex and nuanced. I am constantly learning and improving my ability to assess information and distinguish truth from falsehood. However, the principles of rationality, critical thinking, evidence-based reasoning, and transparency remain at the core of my approach to truth-seeking.
From the above, it appear Bard seem to be scientifically inclined, so I asked;
Question wrote:I note [if not mistaken] you also give the scientific FSK a higher rating of credibility and objectivity.
If a person [most theists] do not trust science highly [but rely on their faith, God and holy text], they will complain using scientific FSK is bias, how would you defend that?
Bard Responded;
(In my previous discussions with Bard, it already readily agreed with the concept of the FSK as objective [as qualified]).
Bard wrote:I appreciate your reasoning and agree that the scientific FSK, with its emphasis on rationality, critical thinking, and evidence-based analysis, currently holds the highest standard for credibility and objectivity.

You're correct; my responses also prioritize the scientific FSK when evaluating information and claims.

Regarding the potential complaint of bias against the scientific FSK from individuals who prioritize faith, here's how I would defend its validity:

Transparency and Openness: Science is inherently transparent and open to scrutiny. Its methodologies are documented, experiments are replicated, and findings are published for peer review. This allows for open discussion and correction of any errors or biases.

Universality: The scientific FSK transcends individual belief systems and cultures. Its principles and methods are applicable to all natural phenomena, regardless of personal faith or cultural background.

Evidence-based: Unlike faith-based systems, the scientific FSK relies on demonstrable evidence to support its claims. This evidence comes from observations, experiments, and rigorous data analysis, making it objective and verifiable.

Predictive Power: The scientific FSK has consistently proven its predictive power. Its laws and theories have successfully predicted various phenomena, from the movement of planets to the development of new technologies. This demonstrates its validity and reliability in understanding the natural world.

Adaptability and Progress: Science is constantly evolving and adapting to new information and discoveries. This openness to correction and improvement ensures that the FSK remains relevant and reliable over time.

While respecting the right to individual beliefs, I would explain that the scientific FSK is not intended to replace faith or religious beliefs. Instead, it offers a complementary approach to understanding the natural world and can even enrich one's understanding of faith by providing a broader context and framework.

Ultimately, the goal is not to promote one FSK over another, but to foster a dialogue and understanding between different perspectives.
By acknowledging the strengths and limitations of each FSK, we can engage in productive discussions and work towards a more informed and comprehensive understanding of the world around us.
Generally Bard or ChatGpt will give only summarized points extracted from what is publicly accessible [those do not need "login"] to them from the whole of the internet.
one will need to dig up the details by oneself.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Share-Prices are Objective, so is Morality

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:42 am Q: are share prices objective valuations?
Bard wrote: Share prices are not objective valuations of a company's worth. They are a reflection of what investors are willing to pay for a share of the company's stock, which is based on a variety of factors, including the company's earnings, growth prospects, and overall market conditions.
Bard will give the above answer if no context and qualification is stated.

However it is undeniable share-prices are objective i.e. defined as independent from a subject's beliefs and judgments.

In the following context, the following qualified FSK-based objectivity cannot be denied.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:17 am Here is the argument on how Share Prices and their market-value are both objective, plus the related advantages to acknowledge the 'objectivity';

From Bard [with reservations];
Bard wrote:Proposal: Qualified Objectivity of Market Value (FSK-Based)
Your proposal to qualify the objectivity of market value as "FSK-based" is a thoughtful approach that addresses the inherent subjectivity within the system while acknowledging the role of the FSK in establishing a degree of objectivity.
............
................
Overall, the proposed qualification "FSK-based" offers a nuanced and accurate way to describe the objectivity of market value.
By addressing the inherent subjectivity within the system while acknowledging the role of the FSK, this approach can contribute to a more transparent and efficient market environment.
I did not said it but Bard commented

"this [qualified] approach can contribute to a more transparent and efficient market environment."

If the qualified FSK-Objectivity of share-prices can have the above advantage, then any rational person should strive to adopt it.

The claim that share-prices cannot be objective at all is from on p-realism which is grounded on an illusion.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Share-Prices are Objective, so is Morality

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:11 am However it is undeniable share-prices are objective i.e. defined as independent from a subject's beliefs and judgments.
There's price, and then there's value.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Share-Prices are Objective, so is Morality

Post by Iwannaplato »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 6:01 am Views??
Let's take the OP seriously. Why not put moral positions ON THE STOCK market? People get to buy in to various moralities and thus give them value. Then society enforces those moral positions with the highest stock values.

Does this produce objective morality?

Objective anything?

It's certainly intersubjective.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Share-Prices are Objective, so is Morality

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Iwannaplato wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:23 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 6:01 am Views??
Let's take the OP seriously. Why not put moral positions ON THE STOCK market? People get to buy in to various moralities and thus give them value. Then society enforces those moral positions with the highest stock values.
Does this produce objective morality?
Objective anything?
It's certainly intersubjective.
Seriously? It is strawman and it is so silly.
I wrote this.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 6:22 am I did not compare share-prices with morality directly.
That is just like insisting Physics and Biology are the same thing.
The point is Physics and Biology has a common denominator in term of the scientific FSK [a generic scientific method and other conditions] and a human-based FSK in general that is universal to all fields of knowledge and the realization of its respective realities.

What I am comparing in using share prices is that
share prices are not depended on physical objects but rather on subjective individuals opinions, beliefs and judgements which are a pooled within of a collective-of-subjects modelled on a generic human-based FSR-FSK; on this basis they are objective as qualified.

Moral elements [the major aspects of it] within morality-proper are not depended on physical objects but rather on subjective individuals opinions, beliefs and judgements which are a pooled within of a collective-of-subjects modelled on a generic human-based FSR-FSK; on this basis they are objective as qualified.

Did you read properly?
ChatGpt stated
"the nature of objectivity in both share prices and morality"
implying ChatGpt agree there is 'objectivity' in both share-prices and morality which is my point.
What is that you don't understand from the above?

My purpose of comparing share-prices with morality is that both can be reduced a generic human-based FSK.
I could have used currencies, crypto currencies and the likes.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Share-Prices are Objective, so is Morality

Post by Iwannaplato »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:34 am Did you read properly?
Absolutely.
Science and biology share a methodology.
Stocks and your way of getting a morality do not.
My absurd suggestion was to precisely show this problem.
Again, what is entailed is not the same thing as what is asserted.
And also, sure you said X. Then later you implied a similarity that did not exist.
You contradict yourself sometimes.

If you see I suggest something and then think 'But I didn't write that', that doesn't mean what I am saying is a strawman.
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LuckyR
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Re: Share-Prices are Objective, so is Morality

Post by LuckyR »

Share prices are an objective description of the conclusion of a subjectively derived process.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Share-Prices are Objective, so is Morality

Post by Iwannaplato »

LuckyR wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:33 pm Share prices are an objective description of the conclusion of a subjectively derived process.
Like a Disney film
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attofishpi
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Re: Share-Prices are Objective, so is Morality

Post by attofishpi »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 12:17 pm
Skepdick wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 12:05 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 12:01 pm Luckily no one on this Forum cares what you think
You speak on behalf of everyone on this forum?

When were you democratically elected as the Imbecile in charge?
Find me ONE person that disagrees! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Don't be picking on Skeppy, he's the second most intelligent person on the forum. 8)
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Share-Prices are Objective, so is Morality

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Iwannaplato wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:49 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:34 am Did you read properly?
Absolutely.
Science and biology share a methodology.
Stocks and your way of getting a morality do not.
I don't think you get what I am trying to show.

1. Biology [physical] is grounded on the scientific FSK within a generic FSK -thus objective
2. Share prices [mental] is grounded on the economic FSK within a generic FSK- thus objective.
3. Just a 2 Moral elements are grounded on a moral FSK within a generic FSK.
Since 2 is objective, therefore 3 is also objective.

Thus I did not equate share prices with morality directly but reconcile them via the common denominator of a generic human-based FSK.

Not sure if you get the point above?
Iwannaplato
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Re: Share-Prices are Objective, so is Morality

Post by Iwannaplato »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 8:11 am
Iwannaplato wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:49 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:34 am Did you read properly?
Absolutely.
Science and biology share a methodology.
Stocks and your way of getting a morality do not.
I don't think you get what I am trying to show.

1. Biology [physical] is grounded on the scientific FSK within a generic FSK -thus objective
2. Share prices [mental] is grounded on the economic FSK within a generic FSK- thus objective.
3. Just a 2 Moral elements are grounded on a moral FSK within a generic FSK.
Since 2 is objective, therefore 3 is also objective.

Thus I did not equate share prices with morality directly but reconcile them via the common denominator of a generic human-based FSK.

Not sure if you get the point above?
I was responding to this, as made clear in my original post.
That is just like insisting Physics and Biology are the same thing.
I suggested the use of the stock market, which you claim creates objective evaluations and is an intersubjective process, for deciding what is objectively moral.
YOu said, this is like suggesting that Physical and Biology are the same thing. Well, that would be great, because they both, as you then say, yourself, use scientific methodology. They share a methodology.

Your way of creating what you call The MOral FSK does not have the same methodology as the Stock Market. So my saying that was nothing like insisting that physics and biology are the same thing. Further I never insisted that the Stock Market and Morality are the same thing. But if the former is an objective process, then why wouldn't it work for morals. And the weird thing is when I asserted that sometimes it is objective - the stock market - that it can be based on objective, quantifiable changes, you then throw an example of where it has nothing to do with that, but rather with MORALITY. The budwiser campaign's moral positioning and it's effects on the stocks.

IOW you're argument that was aimed at a strawman position - that I had somehow said it was only objective - you then counter with a direct parallel between morality and stock prices. Not even knowing that this supports what I said about deciding moralities via the stock market. My tongue in cheek suggestion.

So, you have been all over the place. It is clear you disagree, but your various approaches to disagreeing don't fit well with each other.

And it seems you have trouble reading both of us.
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Sculptor
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Re: Share-Prices are Objective, so is Morality

Post by Sculptor »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 8:11 am
Iwannaplato wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:49 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:34 am Did you read properly?
Absolutely.
Science and biology share a methodology.
Stocks and your way of getting a morality do not.
I don't think you get what I am trying to show.
Everyone gets what you are trying to do.
It's that you are cimply worng
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Sculptor
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Re: Share-Prices are Objective, so is Morality

Post by Sculptor »

attofishpi wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 6:33 am
Sculptor wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 12:17 pm
Skepdick wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 12:05 pm
You speak on behalf of everyone on this forum?

When were you democratically elected as the Imbecile in charge?
Find me ONE person that disagrees! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Don't be picking on Skeppy, he's the second most intelligent person on the forum. 8)
And you the first??

What are your criteria?
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attofishpi
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Re: Share-Prices are Objective, so is Morality

Post by attofishpi »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 12:11 pm
attofishpi wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 6:33 am
Sculptor wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 12:17 pm

Find me ONE person that disagrees! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Don't be picking on Skeppy, he's the second most intelligent person on the forum. 8)
And you the first??

What are your criteria?
The main one is knowing a silly question and avoiding conversations that evolve from it. :D
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