Compatibilism is impossible

[bahman]

Let's assume the world is wholly natural/physical, and we are human animals. How is libertarian free will supposed to work?
I would have to be able to cause neurons in my brain to cause decisions/intentions or actions of mine through sheer "willpower"—in such a way that the neural activity in question is initiated by me nonrandomly and independently of everything else that is or was going on in my brain, my body, my environment, and the rest of the world. That is, my (nonrandom) causings of the neural causings of my decisions/intentions or actions are themselves totally uncaused and uninfluenced by anything that happens or happened in the universe. Sounds like magic to me! Libertarian willpower is a supernatural force that doesn't exist in a natural world.

I think the problem runs deeper than an unknown force. Perhaps there are forces we don't know about. But for the sake of argument let's assume there is this force. Why wouldn't it also be determined?

Because libertarian willpower is by definition an absolutely autonomous prima causa or primum movens (first, i.e. uncaused, cause or first, i.e. unmoved, mover).

I can control the matter in my brain. Fine. OK. Why do I decide to control it in the way I do? Wouldn't I control it based on my desires, goals, wants, values, wishes? Wouldn't these all create the state of that force at Time 1 which leads to my controlling my neurons at Time 2? It's just another causal chain.
Or, the contol over the neurons has nothing to do with, is not caused by my desires, values, wants, etc.....
What's the point of that?

From the materialistic perspective, my mental controlling of neural processes in my brain is itself a neural process in my brain; and in order for it to be an exertion of libertarian free will, it would have to be uncontrolled and uninfluenced by any other neural or material processes. The buck stops here according to libertarians, who deny that there is a potentially infinite regress of predetermining causes of our volitions and actions. Libertarians believe that causal determinism is false! They are incompatibilists!
From my anti-libertarian point of view, libertarian volitions qua causae primae are magical causations ex nihilo that just cannot occur in reality.

The bold part leads to regress.

[Iwannaplato]

You must agree, that causal chains have a termination point?

Why must anyone agree with that? What would make a casual chain terminate? I think just the opposite - the butterfly effect - casual chains branch out and multiply.

Every action has an equal an opposite reaction. That means any amount of energy you put into something, that energy will continue propagating through physical reality pretty much forever. Energy can be neither created nor destroyed. The consequence of this is that no casual chain is ever terminated, to my understanding.

Tad busy but entropy n thermodynamics isn't going to support you here. A causal chain such as atto farting will terminate, such that it has no affect on anything happening within the Dog Star sirius system. (i'm probably addressing iwwannap. more than your question here) - gotta go.

Well, it's not really relevant to me. I wrote earlier....

I'm actually arguing that they are limited view constructions. But in that realm, which is quite practical to use, yes, I think even something like gravity doesn't taper off indefinitely but actually has a termination point. At least recent science points to this, I believe. But all that is divvying up the universe into 'separate' parts.

[attofishpi]

Why must anyone agree with that? What would make a casual chain terminate? I think just the opposite - the butterfly effect - casual chains branch out and multiply.

Every action has an equal an opposite reaction. That means any amount of energy you put into something, that energy will continue propagating through physical reality pretty much forever. Energy can be neither created nor destroyed. The consequence of this is that no casual chain is ever terminated, to my understanding.

Tad busy but entropy n thermodynamics isn't going to support you here. A causal chain such as atto farting will terminate, such that it has no affect on anything happening within the Dog Star sirius system. (i'm probably addressing iwwannap. more than your question here) - gotta go.

Well, it's not really relevant to me. I wrote earlier....

I'm actually arguing that they are limited view constructions. But in that realm, which is quite practical to use, yes, I think even something like gravity doesn't taper off indefinitely but actually has a termination point. At least recent science points to this, I believe. But all that is divvying up the universe into 'separate' parts.

So what? wot do U want (in_form_at_ion) from me?

[attofishpi]

A causal chain such as atto farting will terminate

I've never read a physicist saying anything like this, and I've read a lot of words by a lot of physicists. I have a hard time believing that squares with the conservation of energy and momentum.

It 'squares' quite nicely where the causal chain reaches a limit called the attofish point, it reduces to the point of the Planck scale where the 'causal chain' as with anything within our comprehensible reality can be terminated.

[Iwannaplato]

So what? wot do U want (in_form_at_ion) from me?

You said it was really or probably really or something aimed at me. I pointed out that it didn't fit as an objection.
There's no information I'm looking for in that post.

[attofishpi]

..and that may be the case, but anyone with a semblance above average intelligence does not cut off information, fairly certain you'd agree. There are those upon the forum, and indeed those on Earth that cut off information based on their biases.

Pretty certain U KNOW what the wiser choice is.

[Iwannaplato]

..and that may be the case, but anyone with a semblance above average intelligence does not cut off information, fairly certain you'd agree. There are those upon the forum, and indeed those on Earth that cut off information based on their biases.

Pretty certain U KNOW what the wiser choice is.

I don't know if you're saying I cut off information or not. I commented on your post that referred to me. If there's information you want to share, share away.