Christianity as Philosophy

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RWStanding
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Christianity as Philosophy

Post by RWStanding »

In the ‘Good Old Days’ this country considered itself Christian.
Removing mythology, it is a good philosophy.
But it barely says anything about ‘rights’ and sensibly concentrates on responsibilities.
Unfortunately, modern rights have ceased to be liberal, and have become a bigoted rule book, with critics Cancelled.
As indeed can happen to responsibilities, transformed as duties to the State, rather than dues to society or the community.
Both of which are forms of authoritarianism that can mutate into outright tyranny.
Impenitent
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Re: Christianity as Philosophy

Post by Impenitent »

do unto others...

Kant adopted and reworded it

-Imp
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LuckyR
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Re: Christianity as Philosophy

Post by LuckyR »

RWStanding wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2023 7:20 am In the ‘Good Old Days’ this country considered itself Christian.
Removing mythology, it is a good philosophy.
But it barely says anything about ‘rights’ and sensibly concentrates on responsibilities.
Unfortunately, modern rights have ceased to be liberal, and have become a bigoted rule book, with critics Cancelled.
As indeed can happen to responsibilities, transformed as duties to the State, rather than dues to society or the community.
Both of which are forms of authoritarianism that can mutate into outright tyranny.
You're aware that the Old Days weren't Good for everyone in the US, right?

Please elaborate on the state of modern rights that you reference.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Christianity as Philosophy

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

RWStanding wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2023 7:20 am In the ‘Good Old Days’ this country considered itself Christian.
Removing mythology, it is a good philosophy.
But it barely says anything about ‘rights’ and sensibly concentrates on responsibilities.
Unfortunately, modern rights have ceased to be liberal, and have become a bigoted rule book, with critics Cancelled.
As indeed can happen to responsibilities, transformed as duties to the State, rather than dues to society or the community.
Both of which are forms of authoritarianism that can mutate into outright tyranny.
In the ancient days from the East to the ancient Greeks, Philosophy was a Way of Life to transform the life of the individuals [therefrom the community and humanity] for the better. There was a progressive trend on this, until;
Christianity with its Absolute Doctrine of God that replaced the transformation of individuals by philosophy-proper.
Christianity during the Middle Ages bastardized philosophy-proper [a way of life].

Here's Pierre Hadot's take on it,
Pierre Hadot wrote: In general, historians of Philosophy pay little attention to the fact that ancient Philosophy was, first and foremost, a way of life.
They consider Philosophy as, above all, philosophical discourse.
How can the origins of this prejudice be explained?
I believe it is linked to the evolution of Philosophy itself in the Middle Ages and in modern times.

Christianity played a considerable role in this phenomenon.
From its very beginnings - that is, from the second century AD on - Christianity had presented itself as a Philosophy: the Christian way of life.23
Indeed, the very fact that Christianity was able to present itself as a Philosophy confirms the assertion that Philosophy was conceived in antiquity as a way of life.
If to do Philosophy was to live in conformity with the law of reason, so the argument went, the Christian was a philosopher, since he lived in conformity with the law of the Logos - divine reason. 24
In order to present itself as a Philosophy, Christianity was obliged to integrate elements borrowed from ancient Philosophy.
It had to make the Logos of the gospel according to John coincide with Stoic cosmic reason, and subsequently also with the Aristotelian or Platonic intellect.
It also had to integrate philosophical spiritual exercises into Christian life.
The phenomenon of integration appears very clearly in Clement of Alexandria, und was intensely developed in the monastic movement, where we find Stoic/Platonic exercises of attention to oneself (prosoche), meditation, examination of conscience, and the training for death.
We also re-encounter the high value accorded to peace of mind and impassibility.
270
The Middle Ages was to inherit the conception of monastic life as Christian Philosophy, that is, as a Christian way of life.
As Dom Jean Leclerq has written: "As much as in antiquity, philosophia in the monastic Middle Ages designates not a theory or a way of knowing, but a lived wisdom, a way of living according to reason." 25
At the same time, however, the medieval universities witnessed the elimination of the confusion which had existed in primitive Christianity between theology, founded on the rule of faith, and traditional Philosophy, founded on reason.
Philosophy was now no longer the supreme science, but the "servant of theology;" it supplied the latter with the conceptual, logical, physical, and metaphysical materials it needed.
The Faculty of Arts became no more than a preparation for the Faculty of Theology.

If we disregard, for the moment, the monastic usage of the word philosophia, we can say that Philosophy in the Middle Ages had become a purely theoretical and abstract activity.
It was no longer a way of life.
Ancient spiritual exercises were no longer a part of Philosophy, but found themselves integrated into Christian spirituality.
It is in this form that we encounter them once again in the Spiritual Exercises of Saint Ignatius. 26
Neo-platonic mysticism was prolonged into Christian mysticism, especially among such Rhineland Dominicans as Meister Eckhardt.

Thus, the Middle Ages saw a radical change in the content of Philosophy as compared to antiquity.
Moreover, from the medieval period on, theology and Philosophy were taught in those universities which had been creations of the medieval church.

Even though attempts have been made to use the word "university" in reference to ancient educational institutions, it appears that neither the notion nor the reality of the university ever existed during antiquity, with the possible exception of the Orient near the end of the late antique period.

One of the characteristics of the university is that it is made up of professors who train professors, or professionals training professionals.
Education was thus no longer directed toward people who were to be educated with a view to becoming fully developed human beings, but to specialists, in order that they might learn how to train other specialists.
This is the danger of "Scholasticism," that philosophical tendency which began to be sketched at the end of antiquity, developed in the Middle Ages, and whose presence is still recognizable in Philosophy today.

The scholastic university, dominated by theology, would continue to function up to the end of the eighteenth century, but from the sixteenth to the eighteenth centuries, genuinely creative philosophical activity would develop outside the university, in the persons of Descartes, Spinoza, Mulehranche, and Leibniz.

Philosophy thus re-conquers it autonomy vis-à-vis theology, but this movement - born as a reaction against medieval Scholasticism - was situated on the same terrain as the latter.
In opposition to one kind of theoretical philosophical discourse, there arose yet another theoretical discourse.
Advocate
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Re: Christianity as Philosophy

Post by Advocate »

All versions of theology are attempting to explain the impossible in terms of the incredible. The foundation of all versions of religion is dogma, an instance of faith, and all are equally indistinguishable from fiction, intellectually recessive, and should be treated accordingly.
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Harbal
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Re: Christianity as Philosophy

Post by Harbal »

RWStanding wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2023 7:20 am In the ‘Good Old Days’ this country considered itself Christian.
Which country?

Not that I expect an answer. RWStanding is like a cuckoo; he lays his egg, and then disappears.
Belinda
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Re: Christianity as Philosophy

Post by Belinda »

'Christian' applies to many sects based on one supernatural story for its foundation myth. You really need to specify whether or not you refer to orthodox Christianity or one of the less powerful sects.

You also need to specify whether and to what extent ,the demographic you want to discuss , is
'Christian ' or not.

In any case a discussion such as this is not so much philosophy as historiography which is academic enough to include primary source documentation containing numbers and other measures such as maps with delineated areas. If this were undertaken by an experienced historiographer it may have significant correlations in it either -ve or +ve.

As it stands the title means nothing.
Gary Childress
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Re: Christianity as Philosophy

Post by Gary Childress »

Belinda wrote: Tue Jan 09, 2024 12:15 am 'Christian' applies to many sects based on one supernatural story for its foundation myth. You really need to specify whether or not you refer to orthodox Christianity or one of the less powerful sects.

You also need to specify whether and to what extent ,the demographic you want to discuss , is
'Christian ' or not.

In any case a discussion such as this is not so much philosophy as historiography which is academic enough to include primary source documentation containing numbers and other measures such as maps with delineated areas. If this were undertaken by an experienced historiographer it may have significant correlations in it either -ve or +ve.

As it stands the title means nothing.
Belinda!!!! Long time no see. I'm so glad you are back! The forum needs another voice of reason after all the chaos I've created. :oops:
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Harbal
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Re: Christianity as Philosophy

Post by Harbal »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jan 09, 2024 9:09 am
Belinda wrote: Tue Jan 09, 2024 12:15 am 'Christian' applies to many sects based on one supernatural story for its foundation myth. You really need to specify whether or not you refer to orthodox Christianity or one of the less powerful sects.

You also need to specify whether and to what extent ,the demographic you want to discuss , is
'Christian ' or not.

In any case a discussion such as this is not so much philosophy as historiography which is academic enough to include primary source documentation containing numbers and other measures such as maps with delineated areas. If this were undertaken by an experienced historiographer it may have significant correlations in it either -ve or +ve.

As it stands the title means nothing.
Belinda!!!! Long time no see. I'm so glad you are back!
That goes for me, too.
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henry quirk
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Re: Christianity as Philosophy

Post by henry quirk »

Hey, B...how's the brain holdin' up?
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bahman
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Re: Christianity as Philosophy

Post by bahman »

Harbal wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 10:32 am
RWStanding wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2023 7:20 am In the ‘Good Old Days’ this country considered itself Christian.
Which country?

Not that I expect an answer. RWStanding is like a cuckoo; he lays his egg, and then disappears.
Hell yeah. Very true! :mrgreen:
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