Technology: on balance is it good or bad

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Age
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Re: Technology: on balance is it good or bad

Post by Age »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 2:37 am
commonsense wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 12:52 am So now you can reveal whether you think technology is, on balance, a good thing or not, yes?
I think it's great.
SO 'we' have ANOTHER one who thinks that POLLUTION IS GREAT.
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 2:37 am Imagine having to wait for a pigeon to swim the Atlantic like they did in ye olden tymes so that you can find out the latest news of Peter Kropotkin's philosophical investigations. With the interwibbliweb I get to know what amazing thing Kropotkin is thinking about in real time. As It Happens!

Was life before that even really living?
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Dontaskme
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Re: Technology: on balance is it good or bad

Post by Dontaskme »

attofishpi wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:05 am
Yes, it's one thing to have basically a non-moderated forum, free speech and all, but Age is beyond the pale.
Well, seems like that's the price you are willing to pay for an AD free forum.
No one posting here, including you, is bad for business, free speech and all, including the stuff that flies out of your mouth sometimes, we're all guilty of the 'my bad' business.

If you prefer decorum, then why don't you just move to a forum of decorum?...problem solved. 👅

Luckily, the founder of this forum inserted the ignore feature. In a forum, the "ignore" option means that you will never receive any message from the ignored user... which you seem to ignore, and I find that quite ironic and really funny how that option doesn't work for you personally.

No offense. Maybe the ''ignore'' option doesn't work either :shock: ...maybe this whole forum is designed specifically to be the perfect dumping ground for the tired and broken down hearted to off-load all their mental baggage from their wired weary heads. 😒

My mirror ball broke down the other day, so I had to call out the discoTECH
Atla
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Re: Technology: on balance is it good or bad

Post by Atla »

But Age is not a troll. There actually exists a human who is that nuts for real.
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LuckyR
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Re: Technology: on balance is it good or bad

Post by LuckyR »

Given the definitions and stipulations in the OP (without commenting on whether I agree with them) the question boils down to: is life for humans on average better before 1760 or after 1914.

I would therefore conclude technology (by the OP's criteria) was, on balance good for humans. Which happens to be the conclusion of my analysis using routine criteria (not the OP's).
Walker
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Re: Technology: on balance is it good or bad

Post by Walker »

Impenitent wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 2:01 am technology is technology ... nothing but a tool

how humans may use it is good or bad

-Imp
On balance is good.
Off balance is bad.

Life is the measure.

Trusting one's life to the technological judgment of a self-driving car, whether as a passenger or an obstacle in a crosswalk, is an unbalanced need to worship technology.

Jay-walking around moving, self-driving cars is an unbalanced need to worship one's own independence from the rules that the cars are following when they're not being glitchy.
nemos
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Re: Technology: on balance is it good or bad

Post by nemos »

"The amount of common sense in the world is constant, but the number of people is constantly increasing."
Age wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 5:33 am ... How could using pollution be good?
As far as we can tell from historical material, medieval Europe, especially its cities, was a model of "cleanliness". There were no sewers, so all the sewage was dumped on the streets, washing was not accepted, so people suffered from various parasites and other side-effects of a lack of hygiene, not to mention the smells that accompanied them. I wonder if technology can be blamed for that too ?
Incidentally, it was fashionable at the time for ladies of high status to carry tools of special creativity - flea traps - which were designed as jewellery.
Who is to blame if someone sees technology primarily as a source of profit and not as a tool for keeping clean ?
In fact, most people are not worried about pollution and nature in general, but about the impact it will have on their quality of life. If you hide the rubbish under the carpet, it might look quite acceptable overall.

Fish rotting from the head. If someone is busily sawing off a branch on which they are sitting, the consequences are quite obvious. The most expensive thing in the world is stupidity.
If God wants to punish someone, he takes away their common sense.
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Sculptor
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Re: Technology: on balance is it good or bad

Post by Sculptor »

nemos wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 10:01 am "The amount of common sense in the world is constant, but the number of people is constantly increasing."
The most expensive thing in the world is stupidity.
If God wants to punish someone, he takes away their common sense.
Wow, sounds like exactly the sort of God I would want to throw away my life for.
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attofishpi
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Re: Technology: on balance is it good or bad

Post by attofishpi »

Sculptor wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 12:28 pm
nemos wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 10:01 am "The amount of common sense in the world is constant, but the number of people is constantly increasing."
The most expensive thing in the world is stupidity.
If God wants to punish someone, he takes away their common sense.
Wow, sounds like exactly the sort of God I would want to throw away my life for.
..that's not very thoughtful, what about ya dog?
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Sculptor
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Re: Technology: on balance is it good or bad

Post by Sculptor »

attofishpi wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 1:03 pm
Sculptor wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 12:28 pm
nemos wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 10:01 am "The amount of common sense in the world is constant, but the number of people is constantly increasing."
The most expensive thing in the world is stupidity.
If God wants to punish someone, he takes away their common sense.
Wow, sounds like exactly the sort of God I would want to throw away my life for.
..that's not very thoughtful, what about ya dog?
What about my dog?
Skepdick
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Re: Technology: on balance is it good or bad

Post by Skepdick »

commonsense wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 6:55 pm First off, some definitions only for the purpose of discussion on this thread;

Technology—broadly defined as anything created after the Industrial Revolution.

On balance—overall or on the whole; all things considered.

Good—anything that has a beneficial effect on humans.

Bad—anything that has a deleterious effect on humans.

No replies concerning these definitions will be appreciated. They are broad enough to facilitate a discussion on technology per se.

Discussion:

The promise of technology was that it would improve the lives of humans by making life easier. Has this come to be? Consider the last time you dealt with an automated telephone answering system as compared to speaking with a real person. Consider a situation when your GPS has frustrated you. Consider a time when you called a helpline for technical support only to be given instructions that you can’t understand. Consider modern rockets and bombs. Consider the unhealthy pollution caused by fossil fuel driven vehicles. In view of the many unintended consequences of technology, can you honestly think that, on balance, technology has been good for human beings?

The current fruition of technology has improved the human condition in a number of ways. Advances have been made in the development and production of new medicines. Advances in all forms of transportation have made the world smaller. Likewise, communication has made the world a more interconnected space. AI, while it may be considered a double edged sword, has crept into areas of human life such that it is becoming ubiquitous. Technology has increased agricultural production tremendously. Can you really say that technology, on the whole, has been a detriment to humans?

What is your position as to whether technology has been an overall positive or a negative for human beings?
Everything we call "technology" (irrespective of era/time) is us humans basically ripping off nature in one way or another, distilling it to its essential mechanisms and then re-purposing it for our own goals.

In so far as we are in the game of "survival of the fittest", and we are using the fruits of nature itself to improve on our lives - of course technology is good.

Good artists create - great artists steal. We are stealing from nature.

Viva, self-organization!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomimetics
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Lacewing
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Re: Technology: on balance is it good or bad

Post by Lacewing »

Dontaskme wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 2:52 pm Luckily, the founder of this forum inserted the ignore feature. In a forum, the "ignore" option means that you will never receive any message from the ignored user...
In nearly all forum exchanges, there is a back-and-forth that takes place, as people strive to correct misunderstandings or counter false claims. But in the case of Age's posts which are ignored by most people, he is essentially free to generate great volumes of confused and false assertions about people and what they say, which no one wants to take the time to clarify or correct -- so his posts are often a bunch of spam that don't really deserve to have a platform on a discussion forum.

Other people who have used this forum primarily as a personal venting diary or platform to be continually bombarded with their delusional ramblings, have been asked to leave. Even though this forum is unmoderated, I think it's a reasonable expectation that there be back-and-forth dialog especially when it's in response to what someone has said. But when someone is so off-balance that almost no one engages with them, AND they still generate great volumes of nonsense in response to what other people are saying, that's a pretty good indicator that they're not really operating in the spirit of the discussion forum.
nemos
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Re: Technology: on balance is it good or bad

Post by nemos »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 1:33 pm ... Good artists create - great artists steal. We are stealing from nature.

Viva, self-organization!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomimetics
Well, I wouldn't call it theft, because nobody has really declared ownership of nature.
I do not believe that people are capable of creating something completely original. The most we are capable of is to observe and repeat and also to find creative applications in everyday life, of course based on analogies and not claiming any complete originality.
Skepdick
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Re: Technology: on balance is it good or bad

Post by Skepdick »

nemos wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 2:18 pm
Skepdick wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 1:33 pm ... Good artists create - great artists steal. We are stealing from nature.

Viva, self-organization!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomimetics
Well, I wouldn't call it theft, because nobody has really declared ownership of nature.
I do not believe that people are capable of creating something completely original. The most we are capable of is to observe and repeat and also to find creative applications in everyday life, of course based on analogies and not claiming any complete originality.
OK, Captain Semantics.

The defining property of living systems is self-replication. Copying.

Of course we copy.
We copy. We reduce. We compose. We reconfigure the materials we have at our disposal.

What else could we do?
nemos
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Re: Technology: on balance is it good or bad

Post by nemos »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 3:04 pm .. What else could we do?
To ask different existential questions and seek answers ?
Age
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Re: Technology: on balance is it good or bad

Post by Age »

nemos wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 10:01 am "The amount of common sense in the world is constant, but the number of people is constantly increasing."
What does the term or phrase, 'common sense', even MEAN or REFER TO, to 'you', EXACTLY?
nemos wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 10:01 am
Age wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 5:33 am ... How could using pollution be good?
As far as we can tell from historical material, medieval Europe, especially its cities, was a model of "cleanliness". There were no sewers, so all the sewage was dumped on the streets, washing was not accepted, so people suffered from various parasites and other side-effects of a lack of hygiene, not to mention the smells that accompanied them. I wonder if technology can be blamed for that too ?
'This' seems like a VERY WEIRD 'thing' to WONDER ABOUT, especially considering the ACTUAL WORDS OF MINE, which you have quoted here. But, OF COURSE, 'you' are absolutely FREE TO DO, and WONDER ABOUT, absolutely ANY 'thing'.
nemos wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 10:01 am Incidentally, it was fashionable at the time for ladies of high status to carry tools of special creativity - flea traps - which were designed as jewellery.
Who is to blame if someone sees technology primarily as a source of profit and not as a tool for keeping clean ?
In fact, most people are not worried about pollution and nature in general, but about the impact it will have on their quality of life.
I AGREE.

But the Fact that the ever INCREASING human CREATED pollution IS MAKING the very 'Natural world' UNLIVABLE, which is NOT just DESTROYING the QUALITY OF 'your lives', which 'it' IS DEPENDED UPON, is 'bad' enough, but 'your' ACTUAL 'lives' and 'your EXISTENCE', itself, is ALSO SOLELY and FULLY DEPENDED UPON is, literally, being WHITTLED AWAY, BEFORE YOUR OWN EYES.

BUT, as long as 'you', adult human beings, KEEP BELIEVING that 'you' NEED 'money' TO LIVE, and that 'money' WILL PROVIDE a BETTER QUALITY of 'life' and 'living', then PLEASE, by ALL MEANS, KEEP being GREEDY and CARRYING ON, as 'you' ARE, in the days when this is being written.
nemos wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 10:01 am If you hide the rubbish under the carpet, it might look quite acceptable overall.
When 'you' SAY here 'overall', what are 'you' ACTUALLY REFERRING TO?

See, I would SAY the word 'overall' would infer that ACTUALLY 'the rubbish', which is being ATTEMPTED to be HIDDEN, is ACTUALLY being SEEN, IN an 'overall' Picture or PERSPECTIVE, And, well to me anyway, does NOT LOOK 'acceptable', in ANY form, AT ALL.
nemos wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 10:01 am Fish rotting from the head. If someone is busily sawing off a branch on which they are sitting, the consequences are quite obvious. The most expensive thing in the world is stupidity.
If God wants to punish someone, he takes away their common sense.
But God does NOT 'want' to punish ANY one.

But HOW God ACTUALLY IS and DOES so-call 'punish' 'you', human beings, is NOT by 'taking away' 'your common sense', but rather it IS BECAUSE 'you', adult human beings, are NOT USING, ACTUAL 'common sense' WHY 'you', human beings, ARE, in A sense, what might be described as, being PUNISHED.

'Common Sense', EXACTLY like 'Intelligence', IS INSTILLED, (or WAS INSTALLED), WITH-IN 'you', human beings. And, 'Common Sense', EXACTLY like 'Intelligence', can NOT be 'taken away' NOR 'removed' FROM 'you'.

However, 'Common Sense', JUST like 'Intelligence', can be BLOCKED, STOPPED, or PREVENTED FROM being USED, BECAUSE of PRE-EXISTING BELIEFS and ASSUMPTIONS/PRESUMPTIONS.
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