Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 1:48 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 10:51 am
It is very tedious for me to read up and come up with examples.
ChatGpt [with reservation] is very helpful in giving a general view instead of a specific example;
I clipped away the rest since it is not relevant.
Again. That's about perception. I am talking about the belief that there is an independent reality.
Note what I wrote:
Explain in the specific case, why believing in a the realism false belief is criticially necessary to survival, as you say.
Notice that in the video he is talking about seeing (perceiving). Why would would it be critically necessary to think there is a mind-independent reality? Think.
Your response: it is tedious for me to read up and come up with examples.
I was asked for an explanation in the specific case. Singular.
And then I specifically point out that Hoffman was talking about perceptions.
But you are claiming that an idea is an evolutionary default. The idea of a mind-independent reality.
Why is that idea both critically necessary for survival and false.
Why does an organism HAVE TO HAVE that idea to survive. Do any organisms other than humans have this idea? How did they manage to survive if they didn't have that idea?
There is a lot of mixed up in the above.
Organism Do NOT HAVE TO HAVE that IDEA [the ideology] to survive.
I had stated there is an evolutionary default state of external_ness by organisms [including humans] arising from their perceptions, responsiveness or receptiveness to stimuli to facilitate survival.
So, organisms [including humans] just experience, perceive with responsiveness or receptiveness to stimuli to facilitate survival since 3.5 billion years ago.
Thus, organisms [including humans] do not necessary have to HAVE that IDEA [the ideology] to survive.
Humans had evolved with self-awareness, capacity for language and complex beliefs where humans are able to recognize the concept
of externalness, i.e. there are things that are external to them that facilitate their survival.
This CONCEPT of externalness [mind-independence] is what the scientific FSK establish as a principle; it is also understood within common and conventional sense.
This is mind-independence in the relative
The problem and issue arose within the philosophical community only when a group of people [philosophical realists
] adopted the CONCEPT of externalness as an IDEA of externalness as absolutely
mind-independent without compromise.
Note the conversion of CONCEPT of externalness to an IDEA of externalness and therefrom adopted as an IDEO
LOGY which is absolute and without compromise.
Philosophical realists are grounding their belief of an absolutely mind-independent reality based on an illusion [the idea], i.e. reifying the concept of externalnass as a real.
The extreme of this ideology is the belief that the moon exists regardless of there are humans or not, and where opponents to such an ideology are killed in the case of theists.
The point "Why is that IDEA both critically necessary for survival and false" arose only because philosophical realists cling that relative state as an absolute IDEA which is most true and therefrom as an IDEOLOGY. Thus, it is only 'false' in contrast to the philosophical realists claim there is an absolutely mind-independent reality.
When philosophical realists are countered and highlighted that their belief [of an absolutely mind-independent reality] is grounded on an illusion, they will insist
-"for 'what is described', there must be 'the-pre_existing-described' that is absolute independent of the human conditions,"
-"the moon exists regardless of there are humans or not"
-"dinosaurs existed and died before there were humans"
- and so on ..
The OP enlightens that there are no pre-existing absolute mind-independent reality.
emerged and is realized spontaneously in entanglement with the human conditions and thereafter subsequently [in time] is perceived, known, believed and described.
To philosophical realists, this claim is very counter-intuitive and absurd.
But that [emergence, realization then perceived and described] is what is really going on with reality.