Why God can never be infinite and all knowing

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Why God can never be infinite and all knowing

Post by Dontaskme »

( The Bible says of God, ‘Behold’ the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee. To be infinite is to be without limits. Where there's a limit there's finiteness. Being truly infinite, God knows no restrictions of space, ability, or power.)


The above claim is obviously false, since it implies that infinite knowledge can only be known by an infinite knowing entity, known by the name of God, but which in reality can only be known by that which is finite, namely, the human mind.

In essence it is logically impossible to cross infinity - and so only ‘infinite finites’ can be known, which is never infinite knowledge, and is why knowledge can only point to the illusory nature of it’s infinite existence.
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Re: Why God can never be infinite and all knowing

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Zeno was here

-Imp
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Re: Why God can never be infinite and all knowing

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:56 pm ( The Bible says of God, ‘Behold’ the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee. To be infinite is to be without limits. Where there's a limit there's finiteness. Being truly infinite, God knows no restrictions of space, ability, or power.)


The above claim is obviously false, since it implies that infinite knowledge can only be known by an infinite knowing entity, known by the name of God, but which in reality can only be known by that which is finite, namely, the human mind.
To you is there an ACTUAL so-called 'human mind'?

If yes, then will you DESCRIBE what A 'human mind' IS, EXACTLY?

If no, then WHY NOT?
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:56 pm In essence it is logically impossible to cross infinity
It sure sounds like an IMPOSSIBILITY to so-call 'cross infinity'. But what does 'cross infinity' even MEAN or would ENTAIL, EXACTLY?
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:56 pm - and so only ‘infinite finites’ can be known, which is never infinite knowledge, and is why knowledge can only point to the illusory nature of it’s infinite existence.
Are you SURE?
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Re: Why God can never be infinite and all knowing

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Age wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 9:33 am
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:56 pm ( The Bible says of God, ‘Behold’ the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee. To be infinite is to be without limits. Where there's a limit there's finiteness. Being truly infinite, God knows no restrictions of space, ability, or power.)


The above claim is obviously false, since it implies that infinite knowledge can only be known by an infinite knowing entity, known by the name of God, but which in reality can only be known by that which is finite, namely, the human mind.
To you is there an ACTUAL so-called 'human mind'?

If yes, then will you DESCRIBE what A 'human mind' IS, EXACTLY?

If no, then WHY NOT?
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:56 pm In essence it is logically impossible to cross infinity
It sure sounds like an IMPOSSIBILITY to so-call 'cross infinity'. But what does 'cross infinity' even MEAN or would ENTAIL, EXACTLY?
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:56 pm - and so only ‘infinite finites’ can be known, which is never infinite knowledge, and is why knowledge can only point to the illusory nature of it’s infinite existence.
Are you SURE?
“Life has no meaning. Each of us has meaning and we bring it to life. It is a waste to be asking the question when you are the answer.”
― Joseph Campbell
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Re: Why God can never be infinite and all knowing

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 10:39 am
Age wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 9:33 am
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:56 pm ( The Bible says of God, ‘Behold’ the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee. To be infinite is to be without limits. Where there's a limit there's finiteness. Being truly infinite, God knows no restrictions of space, ability, or power.)


The above claim is obviously false, since it implies that infinite knowledge can only be known by an infinite knowing entity, known by the name of God, but which in reality can only be known by that which is finite, namely, the human mind.
To you is there an ACTUAL so-called 'human mind'?

If yes, then will you DESCRIBE what A 'human mind' IS, EXACTLY?

If no, then WHY NOT?
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:56 pm In essence it is logically impossible to cross infinity
It sure sounds like an IMPOSSIBILITY to so-call 'cross infinity'. But what does 'cross infinity' even MEAN or would ENTAIL, EXACTLY?
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:56 pm - and so only ‘infinite finites’ can be known, which is never infinite knowledge, and is why knowledge can only point to the illusory nature of it’s infinite existence.
Are you SURE?
“Life has no meaning. Each of us has meaning and we bring it to life. It is a waste to be asking the question when you are the answer.”
― Joseph Campbell
So, does this one person KNOW what the ACTUAL Truth IS here?

ALSO, is it NOT EXTREMELY OBVIOUS that, IF "each of you" 'has meaning' AND "each of you bring meaning TO life", then for one to SAY and CLAIM 'that' AS WELL AS 'Life HAS NO meaning' would JUST BE A CONTRADICTION, and even SELF-REFUTING?
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Re: Why God can never be infinite and all knowing

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Age wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 4:33 am

So, does this one person KNOW what the ACTUAL Truth IS here?
Only in the sense there is a need to KNOW ...is anything known at all.

Reality being Nondual, implies that all 'separation' the 'you' and the 'me' is apparent and illusory.
This apparent experience of 'separation' is ''KNOWING'' ...which engenders the NEED to know.

A need to know will never be satisfied because questions can only arise where there's an artificial sense of an individual, which is an illusory separation, so there is no one to satisfy.


Age wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 4:33 amALSO, is it NOT EXTREMELY OBVIOUS that, IF "each of you" 'has meaning' AND "each of you bring meaning TO life", then for one to SAY and CLAIM 'that' AS WELL AS 'Life HAS NO meaning' would JUST BE A CONTRADICTION, and even SELF-REFUTING?
The need for 'meaning' arises with the sense of illusory apparent separation, arising within the sense of 'I Am'
'meaning' arises as a mental construct, and does not exist outside of this mental arena.

There is no SELF outside of it's mental construct. The sense of self is apparent and illusory.
There is no ''meaning'' outside of it's mental construct, which is apparent and illusory, but something values and makes use of this illusion, so it's not all bad news.
That 'something' is unknowing arising as knowing.
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Re: Why God can never be infinite and all knowing

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:31 am
Age wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 4:33 am

So, does this one person KNOW what the ACTUAL Truth IS here?
Only in the sense there is a need to KNOW ...is anything known at all.
Are you AWARE that you are NOT ANSWERING the ACTUAL QUESTION posed, and ASKED here?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:31 am Reality being Nondual, implies that all 'separation' the 'you' and the 'me' is apparent and illusory.
AND, I have ALREADY PARTLY EXPLAINED HOW and WHY 'this' OCCURS.

I NOW WAIT for 'those' who are Truly INTERESTED in UNDERSTANDING the FULL and IRREFUTABLE EXPLANATION.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:31 am This apparent experience of 'separation' is ''KNOWING'' ...which engenders the NEED to know.
BUT there is NO 'need' to know. There IS, however, a VERY STRONG DESIRE to 'want' to LEARN, and KNOW.

Well there WAS in ALL of 'you', human beings, for sake of discussion, AT BIRTH.

See, the Universe WILL KEEP ON 'going on' WITH or WITHOUT 'KNOWING'. So, there, literally, IS NO 'need' TO KNOW.

BUT, the DESIRE of the Universe/God to COME-TO-KNOW thy 'Self' ALWAYS REMAINS, WITHIN.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:31 am A need to know will never be satisfied because questions can only arise where there's an artificial sense of an individual, which is an illusory separation, so there is no one to satisfy.
BUT the WANT/DESIRE TO-KNOW (some 'thing') IS ALWAYS SATISFIED, OBVIOUSLY WHEN 'the ANSWER' is FOUND, and thus OBTAINED.

And, the VERY Fact that there is ALWAYS ONLY 'One', LITERALLY MEANS that there IS AN Individual who CAN BE, and WAS, SATISFIED, WHEN 'I' CAME-TO-KNOW, FULLY and IRREFUTABLY, WHO and WHAT thy True Self IS, EXACTLY.

Dontaskme wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:31 am
Age wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 4:33 amALSO, is it NOT EXTREMELY OBVIOUS that, IF "each of you" 'has meaning' AND "each of you bring meaning TO life", then for one to SAY and CLAIM 'that' AS WELL AS 'Life HAS NO meaning' would JUST BE A CONTRADICTION, and even SELF-REFUTING?
The need for 'meaning' arises with the sense of illusory apparent separation, arising within the sense of 'I Am'
BUT, just like there IS NO 'need' for 'knowing', there is ALSO NO 'need' for 'meaning'.

'you', human beings, however, GIVE 'meaning' to EACH and EVERY, PERCEIVED, 'thing'.

Oh, and by the way, if there is ONLY One, and NOT two, NOR dual, then, ACTUALLY, there IS, OBVIOUSLY, One, which HAS A DESIRE, and WANT, to COME-TO-KNOW thy Self.

Which, as SOME of 'you', human beings, KNOW, EXISTS WITHIN 'you'.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:31 am 'meaning' arises as a mental construct, and does not exist outside of this mental arena.
Is there ABSOLUTELY ANY 'thing' WITHIN 'thought', which does NOT arise as a 'mental construct'?

By definition, I would have considered it FAIRLY OBVIOUS that ANY 'thing' that HAS TO DO WITH 'thought' arises AS A 'mental construct'. 'Meaning' OBVIOUSLY being ONE of 'them'.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:31 am There is no SELF outside of it's mental construct. The sense of self is apparent and illusory.
So, if the NONDUAL, which IS OBTAINING an EVOLVING 'sense' of 'Itself', through the experiences of 'you', human beings, and through the SHARING of 'thought' and an EVER-INCREASING 'knowledge base', is NOT A 'Self', then WHO and/or WHAT IS 'this NONDUAL One', EXACTLY?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:31 am There is no ''meaning'' outside of it's mental construct,
When 'you' SAY 'its' 'mental construct' here, then WHO and/or WHAT is this 'it', which HAS 'its' 'mental construct'?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:31 am which is apparent and illusory, but something values and makes use of this illusion, so it's not all bad news.
SURELY, MAKING USE of what IS NOT REAL, and JUST AN ILLUSION, WOULD BE so-called 'bad news', and NOT 'good', correct?

Or, if 'you', "dontaskme", an individual human being, wants to CONTINUE to think or BELIEVE, and/or 'value', MAKING USE of ILLUSIONS IS 'good' in someway, then IN 'what' WAY, EXACTLY, could doing such a 'thing' be 'good news'?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:31 am That 'something' is unknowing arising as knowing.
What 'we' have here, ONCE MORE, is ANOTHER example of, ' 'i, an individual human being, have NOT YET found/discovered some 'thing', 'i' BELIEVE that 'that thing' can NEVER be found/discovered, SO 'i' AM GOING TO JUST CONTINUE TELLING "others" that 'that thing' IS ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE TO LEARN, UNCOVER, UNVEIL, and KNOW ', (even IF 'my' OWN personal 'thoughts', views/assumptions/beliefs/mental constructs ARE Wrong AND Incorrect.
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Re: Why God can never be infinite and all knowing

Post by Dontaskme »

Age wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:09 am
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:31 am
Age wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 4:33 am

So, does this one person KNOW what the ACTUAL Truth IS here?
Only in the sense there is a need to KNOW ...is anything known at all.
Are you AWARE that you are NOT ANSWERING the ACTUAL QUESTION posed, and ASKED here?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:31 am Reality being Nondual, implies that all 'separation' the 'you' and the 'me' is apparent and illusory.
AND, I have ALREADY PARTLY EXPLAINED HOW and WHY 'this' OCCURS.

I NOW WAIT for 'those' who are Truly INTERESTED in UNDERSTANDING the FULL and IRREFUTABLE EXPLANATION.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:31 am This apparent experience of 'separation' is ''KNOWING'' ...which engenders the NEED to know.
BUT there is NO 'need' to know. There IS, however, a VERY STRONG DESIRE to 'want' to LEARN, and KNOW.

Well there WAS in ALL of 'you', human beings, for sake of discussion, AT BIRTH.

See, the Universe WILL KEEP ON 'going on' WITH or WITHOUT 'KNOWING'. So, there, literally, IS NO 'need' TO KNOW.

BUT, the DESIRE of the Universe/God to COME-TO-KNOW thy 'Self' ALWAYS REMAINS, WITHIN.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:31 am A need to know will never be satisfied because questions can only arise where there's an artificial sense of an individual, which is an illusory separation, so there is no one to satisfy.
BUT the WANT/DESIRE TO-KNOW (some 'thing') IS ALWAYS SATISFIED, OBVIOUSLY WHEN 'the ANSWER' is FOUND, and thus OBTAINED.

And, the VERY Fact that there is ALWAYS ONLY 'One', LITERALLY MEANS that there IS AN Individual who CAN BE, and WAS, SATISFIED, WHEN 'I' CAME-TO-KNOW, FULLY and IRREFUTABLY, WHO and WHAT thy True Self IS, EXACTLY.

Dontaskme wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:31 am
Age wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 4:33 amALSO, is it NOT EXTREMELY OBVIOUS that, IF "each of you" 'has meaning' AND "each of you bring meaning TO life", then for one to SAY and CLAIM 'that' AS WELL AS 'Life HAS NO meaning' would JUST BE A CONTRADICTION, and even SELF-REFUTING?
The need for 'meaning' arises with the sense of illusory apparent separation, arising within the sense of 'I Am'
BUT, just like there IS NO 'need' for 'knowing', there is ALSO NO 'need' for 'meaning'.

'you', human beings, however, GIVE 'meaning' to EACH and EVERY, PERCEIVED, 'thing'.

Oh, and by the way, if there is ONLY One, and NOT two, NOR dual, then, ACTUALLY, there IS, OBVIOUSLY, One, which HAS A DESIRE, and WANT, to COME-TO-KNOW thy Self.

Which, as SOME of 'you', human beings, KNOW, EXISTS WITHIN 'you'.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:31 am 'meaning' arises as a mental construct, and does not exist outside of this mental arena.
Is there ABSOLUTELY ANY 'thing' WITHIN 'thought', which does NOT arise as a 'mental construct'?

By definition, I would have considered it FAIRLY OBVIOUS that ANY 'thing' that HAS TO DO WITH 'thought' arises AS A 'mental construct'. 'Meaning' OBVIOUSLY being ONE of 'them'.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:31 am There is no SELF outside of it's mental construct. The sense of self is apparent and illusory.
So, if the NONDUAL, which IS OBTAINING an EVOLVING 'sense' of 'Itself', through the experiences of 'you', human beings, and through the SHARING of 'thought' and an EVER-INCREASING 'knowledge base', is NOT A 'Self', then WHO and/or WHAT IS 'this NONDUAL One', EXACTLY?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:31 am There is no ''meaning'' outside of it's mental construct,
When 'you' SAY 'its' 'mental construct' here, then WHO and/or WHAT is this 'it', which HAS 'its' 'mental construct'?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:31 am which is apparent and illusory, but something values and makes use of this illusion, so it's not all bad news.
SURELY, MAKING USE of what IS NOT REAL, and JUST AN ILLUSION, WOULD BE so-called 'bad news', and NOT 'good', correct?

Or, if 'you', "dontaskme", an individual human being, wants to CONTINUE to think or BELIEVE, and/or 'value', MAKING USE of ILLUSIONS IS 'good' in someway, then IN 'what' WAY, EXACTLY, could doing such a 'thing' be 'good news'?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:31 am That 'something' is unknowing arising as knowing.
What 'we' have here, ONCE MORE, is ANOTHER example of, ' 'i, an individual human being, have NOT YET found/discovered some 'thing', 'i' BELIEVE that 'that thing' can NEVER be found/discovered, SO 'i' AM GOING TO JUST CONTINUE TELLING "others" that 'that thing' IS ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE TO LEARN, UNCOVER, UNVEIL, and KNOW ', (even IF 'my' OWN personal 'thoughts', views/assumptions/beliefs/mental constructs ARE Wrong AND Incorrect.
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Re: Why God can never be infinite and all knowing

Post by Dontaskme »

Nothing, no thing, not a thing, no one, knows God.


Let your CON-SCIENCE be your guide, in this dream of artificial illusory separation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtQEXW0lVts
Joan of Arc vs. the infinite possibilities


Our knowledge is not absolute.
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Re: Why God can never be infinite and all knowing

Post by Dontaskme »

1 John 1:5
The scripture that declares God is light.
In other words, God is just another word for LIGHT

If everything that is seen and recognised were really God, then it would be impossible to determine which is truly God, for that which is real is eternal, does not change and is everywhere. Hence, whatever is identifiable or man thinks he knows, can never be God.

The known has to be illusory and not real - even the knowledge of who God is, or is not.



Then who or what could God be? God or life is energy, which is light. Since God is light, everything in the world, including the world, man and his mind, needs to be a reflection of this light. Light is energy, which transforms from one form to another. The process reflects an optical illusion of form, shape and consistency and an auditory illusion of different names, multiple belief- systems, varied fields of knowledge, unlimited situations and God Himself.

The known has to be illusory and not real - even the knowledge of who God is, or is not.


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Re: Why God can never be infinite and all knowing

Post by Gary Childress »

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 12:25 pm
1 John 1:5
The scripture that declares God is light.
In other words, God is just another word for LIGHT

If everything that is seen and recognised were really God, then it would be impossible to determine which is truly God, for that which is real is eternal, does not change and is everywhere. Hence, whatever is identifiable or man thinks he knows, can never be God.

The known has to be illusory and not real - even the knowledge of who God is, or is not.



Then who or what could God be? God or life is energy, which is light. Since God is light, everything in the world, including the world, man and his mind, needs to be a reflection of this light. Light is energy, which transforms from one form to another. The process reflects an optical illusion of form, shape and consistency and an auditory illusion of different names, multiple belief- systems, varied fields of knowledge, unlimited situations and God Himself.

The known has to be illusory and not real - even the knowledge of who God is, or is not.


.
God is all things good and yet all their opposites also exist. Therefore, God hates his own creation.
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Re: Why God can never be infinite and all knowing

Post by Dontaskme »

Gary Childress wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 1:33 pm
God is all things good and yet all their opposites also exist. Therefore, God hates his own creation.
Lets be clear that God is just a word with meaning. It's another word for LIGHT ...it even says that in the Bible, and LIGHT does indeed exist, you are self-evident of this fact, and facts like that do not care about your personal emotions or feelings about life because life is a deathless / birthless phenomena.

Light is created through fusion of atoms in the sun's core, which releases energy and photons of light.
This knowledge is available to the human mind as and through conceptual understanding which is an auditory illusion of this same light and sound.

Human cannot be certain that God (Light) created the world, as human was not present during the creation. How can human be certain that God created the world and him/herself, when he/she is not certain of his own life or anyone else’s for that matter. Human was not there at his/her creation, nor will be there at his/her death.

Life is alive because God ( Light) is alive. God needs to be alive in every moment if life is to be alive every moment. Man does not keep life alive, but life keeps man alive. If he were to keep life alive, then he would never die, for he would keep his life alive as long as he desired. Man is not in control of his birth or death and this is proof enough that he is not in control of life or death either. Just as he is a manifestation of life, death too is a manifestation of life, because death requires life to maintain death. Death cannot maintain death, only life can do so.


The known has to be illusory and not real - even the knowledge of who God is, or is not.

Reality is unknowing. Light is this unknowing knowing, the only knowing there is.
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Re: Why God can never be infinite and all knowing

Post by Dontaskme »

Gary Childress wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 1:33 pm
God is all things good and yet all their opposites also exist. Therefore, God hates his own creation.

If God hates his creation then what's wrong with that?

If nuclear war breaks out and kills all life on the planet, then that will be God killing all life on the planet.

There is nothing any thing that is alive can do about what happens, because what happens happens and can never unhappen this happening.
Events either happen or they don't. When they do happen, it's because they were meant to happen, otherwise they would not have happened.

If you can believe anything you want, believe that you’re an integral part of the universe, an expression of the universal energy that courses through everything.

There’s room to embrace the mystery and miracle of being here without understanding everything. You’re not defined by the limitations of what you know; you’re expanded by the things you don’t know.

You’re not supposed to have all the answers, anyway.
“Keep some room in your heart for the unimaginable.” — Mary Oliver
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Re: Why God can never be infinite and all knowing

Post by Gary Childress »

Dontaskme wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:55 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 1:33 pm
God is all things good and yet all their opposites also exist. Therefore, God hates his own creation.

If God hates his creation then what's wrong with that?
If s/he were omnipotent, benevolent, omniscient, and had any regard for the beings living in his or her creation, then you'd think s/he'd be smarter than creating something s/he didn't like.
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Re: Why God can never be infinite and all knowing

Post by Dontaskme »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 8:34 am If s/he were omnipotent, benevolent, omniscient, and had any regard for the beings living in his or her creation, then you'd think s/he'd be smarter than creating something s/he didn't like.
But if there was nothing here for someone to dislike, then there would no way to tell ourselves we dislike something.
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