Wonkers and Israel

For all things philosophical.

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accelafine
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Re: Wonkers and Israel

Post by accelafine »

Nothing like stimulating, intelligent debate with insightful, broad-minded, well-educated Americans :lol:
Gary Childress
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Re: Wonkers and Israel

Post by Gary Childress »

accelafine wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:16 pm Nothing like stimulating, intelligent debate with insightful, broad-minded, well-educated Americans :lol:
Fair enough. :|
Walker
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Re: Wonkers and Israel

Post by Walker »

November 30, 2023
The Odious Reasons Behind The World’s Obsession With Gaza And The West Bank
By Jerold Levoritz
https://www.americanthinker.com/article ... _bank.html

“International aid to Gaza is the only process that ensures its survival. This rather strange situation has no equivalent in any other place in the world except for the scientists living in Antarctica. Gazans are the most welfare-dependent population in the known universe, producing nothing except a few vegetables. And yet nobody asks why. Let us be crystal clear that every last Gazan would go elsewhere in the world if this aid stopped. The answer lies in the fact that the world’s powers hate what Israel stands for and, believe it or not, that’s not its Jewishness: It is, instead, its contributions to the world and its citizens’ happiness.”
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phyllo
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Re: Wonkers and Israel

Post by phyllo »

Gazans are the most welfare-dependent population in the known universe, producing nothing except a few vegetables. And yet nobody asks why.
We know why :
The economy of the Gaza Strip is severely hampered by Egypt and Israel's almost total blockade, and has one of the world's highest population densities,[23][24] limited land access, strict internal and external security controls, the effects of Israeli military operations, and restrictions on labor and trade access across the border. Per capita income (PPP) was estimated at US$3,100 in 2009, a position of 164th in the world.[25] A UN report in 2022 estimated Gaza Strip's unemployment rate to be 45% and 65% of the population under poverty, living standards went down by 27% compared to 2006 and 80% of the population depends on international aid for survival.[302] Gaza Strip industries are generally small family businesses that produce textiles, soap, olive-wood carvings, and mother-of-pearl souvenirs.

The main agricultural products are olives, citrus, vegetables, Halal beef, and dairy products. Primary exports are citrus and cut flowers, while primary imports are food, consumer goods, and construction materials. The main trade partners of the Gaza Strip are Israel and Egypt.[25]

The EU described the Gaza economy in 2013 as follows: "Since Hamas took control of Gaza in 2007 and following the closure imposed by Israel, the situation in the Strip has been one of chronic need, de-development and donor dependency, despite a temporary relaxation on restrictions in movement of people and goods following a flotilla raid in 2010. The closure has effectively cut off access for exports to traditional markets in Israel, transfers to the West Bank and has severely restricted imports. Exports are now down to 2% of 2007 levels."[93]

According to Sara Roy, one senior IDF officer told an UNWRA official in 2015 that Israel's policy towards the Gaza Strip consisted of: "No development, no prosperity, no humanitarian crisis."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip#Economy

But instead, let's say that Palestinians are gold-diggers and everyone hates Israel. Right?
Iwannaplato
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Re: Wonkers and Israel

Post by Iwannaplato »

phyllo wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:02 pm But instead, let's say that Palestinians are gold-diggers and everyone hates Israel. Right?
I don't think you understand, Phyllo.
For Walker and accelafine, one side is right and the other side is wrong. It is utterly binary.
So, if you point out anything the right/good/noble side might have done wrong, they you are condoning everthing done by the other side.
If you want to point out the situation is complex - citizens vs. governments/groups that supposedly represent them, for example - then you are justifying evil and you are like Hitler and also probably an American.
Accelafine has made many fine self-evident assertions - iow they need no justification. And certainly his insults and anger demonstrate that anyone saying anything that might go against the country he prefers, is clealy wrong. To justify his assertions would be...so troublesome.
And bringing in history or who might be responsible for conditions or have some responsibility for these things...
is just muddying the waters.
You just don't understand the clear non-dualist, utterly binary, us them, never the twain shall meet or share properties vision of a man like Walker.

How dare you sully what is so simple.

The Palestians, Israelis, the problems between them, history, you're just a trouble maker.

Don't disturb their pure states and simplicity. They know. Can't you feel their knowing? You will if they insult you a couple more times. And they will.
accelafine
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Re: Wonkers and Israel

Post by accelafine »

Iwannaplato wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:44 pm
phyllo wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:02 pm But instead, let's say that Palestinians are gold-diggers and everyone hates Israel. Right?
I don't think you understand, Phyllo.
For Walker and accelafine, one side is right and the other side is wrong. It is utterly binary.
So, if you point out anything the right/good/noble side might have done wrong, they you are condoning everthing done by the other side.
If you want to point out the situation is complex - citizens vs. governments/groups that supposedly represent them, for example - then you are justifying evil and you are like Hitler and also probably an American.
Accelafine has made many fine self-evident assertions - iow they need no justification. And certainly his insults and anger demonstrate that anyone saying anything that might go against the country he prefers, is clealy wrong. To justify his assertions would be...so troublesome.
And bringing in history or who might be responsible for conditions or have some responsibility for these things...
is just muddying the waters.
You just don't understand the clear non-dualist, utterly binary, us them, never the twain shall meet or share properties vision of a man like Walker.

How dare you sully what is so simple.

The Palestians, Israelis, the problems between them, history, you're just a trouble maker.

Don't disturb their pure states and simplicity. They know. Can't you feel their knowing? You will if they insult you a couple more times. And they will.
Fuck off
Iwannaplato
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Re: Wonkers and Israel

Post by Iwannaplato »

Accelafine is right. Obviously I agreed with him, but since I took the step of explaining why he is right to Phyllo it's as if his bare assertions need any defense. Bad me.'

It's great that we have a real thinker amongst us. Someone who knows the value of an insult, appeals to incredulity, binary thinking..and further how pointless it is to justify anything.

Things are looking up.
Atla
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Re: Wonkers and Israel

Post by Atla »

People are more fiendly when you have a pretty lady in your avatar
Gary Childress
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Re: Wonkers and Israel

Post by Gary Childress »

Atla wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:58 pm People are more fiendly when you have a pretty lady in your avatar
If you post a pretty lady for your avatar, Atla, it better be an accurate pic. When I send money, I want to know she really is as good-looking as I imagine.
Walker
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Re: Wonkers and Israel

Post by Walker »

phyllo wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:02 pm We know why :
Do we know why Israeli levied a blockade against Gaza?
Iwannaplato
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Re: Wonkers and Israel

Post by Iwannaplato »

Atla wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:58 pm People are more fiendly when you have a pretty lady in your avatar
And people are more friendly when you have a petty lady in your avatar.
Walker
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Re: Wonkers and Israel

Post by Walker »

accelafine wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:22 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:44 pm
phyllo wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:02 pm But instead, let's say that Palestinians are gold-diggers and everyone hates Israel. Right?
I don't think you understand, Phyllo.
(1) For Walker and accelafine, one side is right and the other side is wrong. It is utterly binary.
(2) Fuck off
:thumbsup:

You're catching on.

Compassion reveals that such childish projections (1) that cause legitimate disgust (2) are meant to encourage dialogue, however the crudeness of the solicitations is on par with what this short link expresses, making it unworthy of serious discussion. Thus, PNF.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jocI_R8lMpM
Walker
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Re: Wonkers and Israel

Post by Walker »

Do we know why Israeli levied a blockade against Gaza?
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phyllo
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Re: Wonkers and Israel

Post by phyllo »

Here is a link to start:
A blockade has been imposed by Israel and Egypt on the movement of goods and people in and out of the Gaza Strip following Hamas's takeover in 2007. The blockade aimed to isolate Hamas and prevent the smuggling of weapons into Gaza. It has also led to significant humanitarian challenges, as it restricts the flow of essential goods, contributes to economic hardship, and limits the freedom of movement for Gaza's residents.[1]

Exit and entry into Gaza is prohibited by sea and air. There are only three crossings to go in and out of Gaza, two of them controlled by Israel and one by Egypt. According to a 2022 report by the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, the blockade has significantly reduced movement of people and goods due to reduction in number of exit permits by Israel.[2]

Israel blockaded the Gaza Strip temporarily in 2005–2006. In 2007, after Hamas seized control of the Gaza Strip, both Israel and Egypt have imposed an indefinite blockade of Gaza that is ongoing to present day, on the grounds that Fatah and Palestinian Authority forces had fled the Strip and were no longer able to provide security on the Palestinian side.[3] In response, Hamas fired thousands of rockets towards urban areas in Israel.[4][5] Israel stated that the blockade was necessary to protect Israeli citizens from terrorism, rocket attacks and any other hostile activity and to prevent dual use goods from entering Gaza.[6] Egypt was worried that Hamas control of Gaza would increase Iranian influence and the Egyptian Foreign Minister Aboul Gheit explained that opening the Rafah border crossing, the only crossing on the Egypt-Gaza border, would undermine the legitimacy of the Palestinian Authority.[7] PA President Mahmoud Abbas has expressed his approval of the Egyptian border restrictions. In 2014 and subsequent years, Abbas supported Egypt's crackdown on smuggling tunnels, and welcomed the flooding of the tunnels by Egypt in coordination with the PA.[8]

Israel has been accused of violating or failing to fulfill specific obligations it had committed to under various ceasefire agreements[9][10][11] on different occasions to alleviate or lift the blockade.[12] "Crossings were repeatedly shut and buffer zones were reinstated. Imports declined, exports were blocked, and fewer Gazans were given exit permits to Israel and the West Bank."[13][14][15][16][17][18][19] The blockade has been decried by human rights groups, international community representatives and legal professionals as a form of collective punishment in contravention of international law, specifically the Fourth Geneva Convention. Rights groups have held Israel mainly responsible as the occupying power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_ ... Gaza_Strip

I suggest reading the entire long article.
Walker
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Re: Wonkers and Israel

Post by Walker »

phyllo wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 12:38 pm Here is a link to start:
I know how to research.
I wasn't asking how to research.
Everyone knows how to research.

I was asking if "we know."

That only requires a yes or no answer.
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