Isaac Asimov - Overpopulation Destroys Democracy

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Gary Childress
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Isaac Asimov - Overpopulation Destroys Democracy

Post by Gary Childress »

commonsense
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Re: Isaac Asimov - Overpopulation Destroys Democracy

Post by commonsense »

I don’t think so.

Asimov is saying that overpopulation destroys everything, and that includes democracy, to which he devotes one partial sentence in passing.

The voice of the people is already dismissed out of hand by elected representatives who are professional politicians whenever it suits them politically.

What kills democracy is an ill-informed public which is preyed upon by elected officials who place self-interest (I.e. to hold onto power again and again) ahead of real representation.
Gary Childress
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Re: Isaac Asimov - Overpopulation Destroys Democracy

Post by Gary Childress »

commonsense wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:21 pm
Asimov is saying that overpopulation destroys everything, and that includes democracy, to which he devotes one partial sentence in passing.
As I stated, it destroys democracy. Democracy is part of "everything" isn't it? So what are you disagreeing with in my statement?
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Isaac Asimov - Overpopulation Destroys Democracy

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Gary Childress wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:52 am As I stated, it destroys democracy. Democracy is part of "everything" isn't it?
It's true in the same way that it is also true that thermonuclear war destroys the Tunisian cigarrette smuggling industry. It would be odd to single that out as either the best way to deal with the smuggling or as the most noteworthy outcome of such a conflagration.
accelafine
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Re: Isaac Asimov - Overpopulation Destroys Democracy

Post by accelafine »

commonsense wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:21 pm
I don’t think so.

Asimov is saying that overpopulation destroys everything, and that includes democracy, to which he devotes one partial sentence in passing.

The voice of the people is already dismissed out of hand by elected representatives who are professional politicians whenever it suits them politically.

What kills democracy is an ill-informed public which is preyed upon by elected officials who place self-interest (I.e. to hold onto power again and again) ahead of real representation.

I would say that he has a few more brain cells than you do, so I'm going with him. Apologies for your ego.
Gary Childress
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Re: Isaac Asimov - Overpopulation Destroys Democracy

Post by Gary Childress »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 6:35 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:52 am As I stated, it destroys democracy. Democracy is part of "everything" isn't it?
It's true in the same way that it is also true that thermonuclear war destroys the Tunisian cigarrette smuggling industry. It would be odd to single that out as either the best way to deal with the smuggling or as the most noteworthy outcome of such a conflagration.
So both thermonuclear war and overpopulation are things that ought to be avoided. Right?
commonsense
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Re: Isaac Asimov - Overpopulation Destroys Democracy

Post by commonsense »

Gary Childress wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:52 am
commonsense wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:21 pm
Asimov is saying that overpopulation destroys everything, and that includes democracy, to which he devotes one partial sentence in passing.
As I stated, it destroys democracy. Democracy is part of "everything" isn't it? So what are you disagreeing with in my statement?
I am disagreeing with Asimov’s statement that overpopulation destroys everything.
Gary Childress
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Re: Isaac Asimov - Overpopulation Destroys Democracy

Post by Gary Childress »

commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:40 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:52 am
commonsense wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:21 pm
Asimov is saying that overpopulation destroys everything, and that includes democracy, to which he devotes one partial sentence in passing.
As I stated, it destroys democracy. Democracy is part of "everything" isn't it? So what are you disagreeing with in my statement?
I am disagreeing with Asimov’s statement that overpopulation destroys everything.
Well, it'll destroy us, and unless you're cheering for the coming of the uber-life that will follow us if the planet ever recovers from being a barren desert, then you might as well say it'll destroy everything as far as you're concerned too.
commonsense
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Re: Isaac Asimov - Overpopulation Destroys Democracy

Post by commonsense »

Gary Childress wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:04 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:40 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:52 am

As I stated, it destroys democracy. Democracy is part of "everything" isn't it? So what are you disagreeing with in my statement?
I am disagreeing with Asimov’s statement that overpopulation destroys everything.
Well, it'll destroy us, and unless you're cheering for the coming of the uber-life that will follow us if the planet ever recovers from being a barren desert, then you might as well say it'll destroy everything as far as you're concerned too.
This is about democracy, not a barren desert.

Perhaps you can show me that I’m wrong by explaining how overpopulation destroys democracy .
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Re: Isaac Asimov - Overpopulation Destroys Democracy

Post by Gary Childress »

commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:08 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:04 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:40 pm

I am disagreeing with Asimov’s statement that overpopulation destroys everything.
Well, it'll destroy us, and unless you're cheering for the coming of the uber-life that will follow us if the planet ever recovers from being a barren desert, then you might as well say it'll destroy everything as far as you're concerned too.
This is about democracy, not a barren desert.

Perhaps you can show me that I’m wrong by explaining how overpopulation destroys democracy .
You started the conversation out with "I don't think so". What are you disagreeing with in my OP?
commonsense
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Re: Isaac Asimov - Overpopulation Destroys Democracy

Post by commonsense »

Gary Childress wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:15 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:08 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:04 pm

Well, it'll destroy us, and unless you're cheering for the coming of the uber-life that will follow us if the planet ever recovers from being a barren desert, then you might as well say it'll destroy everything as far as you're concerned too.
This is about democracy, not a barren desert.

Perhaps you can show me that I’m wrong by explaining how overpopulation destroys democracy .
You started the conversation out with "I don't think so". What are you disagreeing with in my OP?
I’ve stated what I disagree with in the conversation with Asimov. Your OP is nothing more than a link to that conversation.
Gary Childress
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Re: Isaac Asimov - Overpopulation Destroys Democracy

Post by Gary Childress »

commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:22 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:15 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:08 pm

This is about democracy, not a barren desert.

Perhaps you can show me that I’m wrong by explaining how overpopulation destroys democracy .
You started the conversation out with "I don't think so". What are you disagreeing with in my OP?
I’ve stated what I disagree with in the conversation with Asimov. Your OP is nothing more than a link to that conversation.
And as I said, if overpopulation renders the Earth uninhabitable, then Asimov is as right about his contention as you are.
Walker
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Re: Isaac Asimov - Overpopulation Destroys Democracy

Post by Walker »

- At time marker 1:27 in the video, he starts his pitch that people want to have children because “we,” celebrate children.

- He said that if “we” did not “push” for children, there would be less desire for children, and thus fewer people in the world.

- He said these things quite earnestly, as if to persuade the listener with emotion.

Implication:
Is the “biological clock” that women feel just a societal implant?
Or …
Is higher education the societal implant that causes less “push,” for children?
Gary Childress
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Re: Isaac Asimov - Overpopulation Destroys Democracy

Post by Gary Childress »

Walker wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:07 am
- At time marker 1:27 in the video, he starts his pitch that people want to have children because “we,” celebrate children.

- He said that if “we” did not “push” for children, there would be less desire for children, and thus fewer people in the world.

- He said these things quite earnestly, as if to persuade the listener with emotion.

Implication:
Is the “biological clock” that women feel just a societal implant?
Or …
Is higher education the societal implant that causes less “push,” for children?
I don't know. All I know is that humanity better regulate production in the baby factory better. We're proliferating ourselves into extinction.
Walker
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Re: Isaac Asimov - Overpopulation Destroys Democracy

Post by Walker »

Gary Childress wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 12:05 pm
I don't know. All I know is that humanity better regulate production in the baby factory better. We're proliferating ourselves into extinction.
That's not quite what Mutton-Chops said in the video. He said that the planet cannot sustain 5 billion human lives ... in the manner in which they should be sustained.

Objectively speaking, that's a qualifier as big as Jupiter. He said that the majority of folks live in squalor, and that's true enough, however that's a subjective judgment call.

The current population is 8 billion, and now India has more folks than China, which is newsworthy regarding cause. They say that it won't be long before China is down to 800 million, and this is predicted by mathematics combined with the consequences of below replacement-level birthrates.

Long ago I read something that Asimov wrote about himself. He said that he hates beautiful days and must draw his shades, because the view distracts from his focused writing ... and the guy pretty much wrote all the time. Prodigious output, and I would wager a touch unbalanced given the monomania of his lifestyle. He must have been an OCD conduit for extrapolations of his notions.
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