Defining a "Normal Mind"

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

TommyB
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:05 am

Defining a "Normal Mind"

Post by TommyB »

What is a reasonable definition of a concept of a "normal mind"?

My neighbor, Guy Casey, died on October 10, 2023. My experience getting to know him prompts this question.

For more than ten years he occupied the small studio apartment (B710) next to my one bedroom apartment (B709). I moved in on June 15, 2021.

We both graduated from the William Mitchell College of Law, about twelve years apart, and both practiced law in Minnesota: Guy in Saint Paul, I in Duluth.

One day shortly after I moved in, I started to recommend an essay published on Professor of Law Jonathan Turley's blog which I read regularly. Hearing " Turley, ", Guy interrupted me and stated that " Tueley was a whore, and that his opinion was available to the highest bidder!" Shocked, I asked if he read the blog. He said no and gave a trivial source for his opinion.

On another visit to my apartment he noticed a book that I had just purchased and picked it up. The book has a beautiful cover, the art of Master Bertram, entitled and depicting God's act, in "The Creation of the Animals"

The book is "THE ORDER Of THINGS" (2007, Ignatius Press, San Francisco) by the late, great teacher, James V. Schall, S. J.

Guy put the book back, sat down, and then stated that one day, when he was 14,
he came home and told his parents that he was no longer going to go to church.

These disclosures, and others, prompted me to wonder what was his fundamental philosophy of life.

After much thought, I finally concluded that philosophically, he was a cynic.

So, did Guy have a "normal mind"?
Impenitent
Posts: 4272
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Defining a "Normal Mind"

Post by Impenitent »

each mind is unique

cynic? it takes much more than apparent atheism and his disagreement with Turley to render that conclusion...

some people don't like the fragrance of lavender, but I don't normally mind

-Imp
TommyB
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:05 am

Re: Defining a "Normal Mind"

Post by TommyB »

What is your definition of "mind"?

I have not stated all the facts that made me conclude that Guy was a cynic.
Walker
Posts: 14140
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Defining a "Normal Mind"

Post by Walker »

TommyB wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:18 pm What is a reasonable definition of a concept of a "normal mind"?
Normal mind defines the human portal to universal mind. Question?
User avatar
phyllo
Posts: 1400
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:58 pm
Location: Слава Україні!

Re: Defining a "Normal Mind"

Post by phyllo »

So, did Guy have a "normal mind"?
There is a real danger that we might define "normal mind" as 'thinking like us' and 'believing what we believe'.

Nothing that this Guy did, indicates an abnormal mind. IOW, it was all in a reasonable range.

Of course, my 'range' could be much different from another person's 'range'. :twisted:
Iwannaplato
Posts: 6397
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: Defining a "Normal Mind"

Post by Iwannaplato »

TommyB wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:18 pm What is a reasonable definition of a concept of a "normal mind"?

My neighbor, Guy Casey, died on October 10, 2023. My experience getting to know him prompts this question.

For more than ten years he occupied the small studio apartment (B710) next to my one bedroom apartment (B709). I moved in on June 15, 2021.

We both graduated from the William Mitchell College of Law, about twelve years apart, and both practiced law in Minnesota: Guy in Saint Paul, I in Duluth.

One day shortly after I moved in, I started to recommend an essay published on Professor of Law Jonathan Turley's blog which I read regularly. Hearing " Turley, ", Guy interrupted me and stated that " Tueley was a whore, and that his opinion was available to the highest bidder!" Shocked, I asked if he read the blog. He said no and gave a trivial source for his opinion.

On another visit to my apartment he noticed a book that I had just purchased and picked it up. The book has a beautiful cover, the art of Master Bertram, entitled and depicting God's act, in "The Creation of the Animals"

The book is "THE ORDER Of THINGS" (2007, Ignatius Press, San Francisco) by the late, great teacher, James V. Schall, S. J.

Guy put the book back, sat down, and then stated that one day, when he was 14,
he came home and told his parents that he was no longer going to go to church.

These disclosures, and others, prompted me to wonder what was his fundamental philosophy of life.

After much thought, I finally concluded that philosophically, he was a cynic.

So, did Guy have a "normal mind"?
So far there's nothing that makes me think he's not normal, unless we get some agreed definition of that. He sounds a bit cranky and blunt and perhaps cranky and blunt when he was a kid also. Cranky and blunt people seem to me to fall into the range of possible normals. He practiced law, so it sounds like he managed to navigate the volatile and complicated and boring world of the law. Which means he had to interact with clients, judges, other lawyers, dress himself minimally well and so on. Which means he could navigate the norms of everyday life and the weird subculture of the law, well enough to survive.

I mean, who knows maybe he was eating human body parts, but nothing you've said make him sound out of the ordinary range of human characters.
Impenitent
Posts: 4272
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Defining a "Normal Mind"

Post by Impenitent »

TommyB wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 1:02 pm What is your definition of "mind"?

I have not stated all the facts that made me conclude that Guy was a cynic.
the definition is in it's use

-Imp
TommyB
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:05 am

Re: Defining a "Normal Mind"

Post by TommyB »

TommyB wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:18 pm What is a reasonable definition of a concept of a "normal mind"?

My neighbor, Guy Casey, died on October 10, 2023. My experience getting to know him prompts this question.

For more than ten years he occupied the small studio apartment (B710) next to my one bedroom apartment (B709). I moved in on June 15, 2021.

We both graduated from the William Mitchell College of Law, about twelve years apart, and both practiced law in Minnesota: Guy in Saint Paul, I in Duluth.

One day shortly after I moved in, I started to recommend an essay published on Professor of Law Jonathan Turley's blog which I read regularly. Hearing " Turley, ", Guy interrupted me and stated that " Tueley was a whore, and that his opinion was available to the highest bidder!" Shocked, I asked if he read the blog. He said no and gave a trivial source for his opinion.

On another visit to my apartment he noticed a book that I had just purchased and picked it up. The book has a beautiful cover, the art of Master Bertram, entitled and depicting God's act, in "The Creation of the Animals"

The book is "THE ORDER Of THINGS" (2007, Ignatius Press, San Francisco) by the late, great teacher, James V. Schall, S. J.

Guy put the book back, sat down, and then stated that one day, when he was 14,
he came home and told his parents that he was no longer going to go to church.

These disclosures, and others, prompted me to wonder what was his fundamental philosophy of life.

After much thought, I finally concluded that philosophically, he was a cynic.

So, did Guy have a "normal mind"?
One of the influences forming my opinion of the concept of " normality" is Russell Kirk's classic, "Enemies of the Permanent Things" - OBSERVATIONS OF ABNORMALITY IN LITERATURE AND POLITICS", (Cluny Media edition, 2016)

Kirk states the definition of normality as "...the character or state of being normal - of according with a rule or standard. The term implies the existence of " norms," or authoritative principles and models. Derived from the Latin norma, a carpenter's square, "norm" signifies a measure generally accepted and virtually immutable ." p. 172
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 6604
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Defining a "Normal Mind"

Post by Lacewing »

TommyB wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:39 pm Kirk states the definition of normality as "...the character or state of being normal - of according with a rule or standard.
I think "normal" is to each person what they're used to.
User avatar
phyllo
Posts: 1400
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:58 pm
Location: Слава Україні!

Re: Defining a "Normal Mind"

Post by phyllo »

TommyB wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:39 pm
TommyB wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:18 pm What is a reasonable definition of a concept of a "normal mind"?

My neighbor, Guy Casey, died on October 10, 2023. My experience getting to know him prompts this question.

For more than ten years he occupied the small studio apartment (B710) next to my one bedroom apartment (B709). I moved in on June 15, 2021.

We both graduated from the William Mitchell College of Law, about twelve years apart, and both practiced law in Minnesota: Guy in Saint Paul, I in Duluth.

One day shortly after I moved in, I started to recommend an essay published on Professor of Law Jonathan Turley's blog which I read regularly. Hearing " Turley, ", Guy interrupted me and stated that " Tueley was a whore, and that his opinion was available to the highest bidder!" Shocked, I asked if he read the blog. He said no and gave a trivial source for his opinion.

On another visit to my apartment he noticed a book that I had just purchased and picked it up. The book has a beautiful cover, the art of Master Bertram, entitled and depicting God's act, in "The Creation of the Animals"

The book is "THE ORDER Of THINGS" (2007, Ignatius Press, San Francisco) by the late, great teacher, James V. Schall, S. J.

Guy put the book back, sat down, and then stated that one day, when he was 14,
he came home and told his parents that he was no longer going to go to church.

These disclosures, and others, prompted me to wonder what was his fundamental philosophy of life.

After much thought, I finally concluded that philosophically, he was a cynic.

So, did Guy have a "normal mind"?
One of the influences forming my opinion of the concept of " normality" is Russell Kirk's classic, "Enemies of the Permanent Things" - OBSERVATIONS OF ABNORMALITY IN LITERATURE AND POLITICS", (Cluny Media edition, 2016)

Kirk states the definition of normality as "...the character or state of being normal - of according with a rule or standard. The term implies the existence of " norms," or authoritative principles and models. Derived from the Latin norma, a carpenter's square, "norm" signifies a measure generally accepted and virtually immutable ." p. 172
But what was not normal about what Guy said?
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8300
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Defining a "Normal Mind"

Post by Sculptor »

TommyB wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:18 pm What is a reasonable definition of a concept of a "normal mind"?

My neighbor, Guy Casey, died on October 10, 2023. My experience getting to know him prompts this question.

For more than ten years he occupied the small studio apartment (B710) next to my one bedroom apartment (B709). I moved in on June 15, 2021.

We both graduated from the William Mitchell College of Law, about twelve years apart, and both practiced law in Minnesota: Guy in Saint Paul, I in Duluth.

One day shortly after I moved in, I started to recommend an essay published on Professor of Law Jonathan Turley's blog which I read regularly. Hearing " Turley, ", Guy interrupted me and stated that " Tueley was a whore, and that his opinion was available to the highest bidder!" Shocked, I asked if he read the blog. He said no and gave a trivial source for his opinion.

On another visit to my apartment he noticed a book that I had just purchased and picked it up. The book has a beautiful cover, the art of Master Bertram, entitled and depicting God's act, in "The Creation of the Animals"

The book is "THE ORDER Of THINGS" (2007, Ignatius Press, San Francisco) by the late, great teacher, James V. Schall, S. J.

Guy put the book back, sat down, and then stated that one day, when he was 14,
he came home and told his parents that he was no longer going to go to church.

These disclosures, and others, prompted me to wonder what was his fundamental philosophy of life.

After much thought, I finally concluded that philosophically, he was a cynic.

So, did Guy have a "normal mind"?
I'm pretty sure you do not have a normal mind.
If you are serious about this question you might be well advised to examine your terms.
You can never know another mind except by the actions of the person in whom the mind consists.
Then you might want to pause and aks what is "normal"? Is that desirable, Statistically it would be characteristic of average abilities, capacities or capabilities. Can such a linear terms be attributed to such a mulitfaceted phenomenon as a mind. Could it be above normal in intellect, normal in emotion but sub-normal in the practical capabilities?

A person who decides he no longer go to church would only be normal should most people do the same. In the UK he would be thought normal on that basis. Maybe not so much in Egypt, Pakistan, USA or other backward countries.

I do not think it naturally means he is cynical. Skeptical might be a better word to use. Better still, simply rational.
You did not state what church, but I doubt that most people in the world go to that church or one like it. In that respect it would be his parents, who still attend who were abnormal, not him. He would be simply complying to a norm whereby most people do not attend that church.
Age
Posts: 19771
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Defining a "Normal Mind"

Post by Age »

There is NO such 'thing' as a 'human mind' NOR many 'minds'.

Also, the word 'normal', without an agreed upon classification or definition here, is far to subjective to be of ANY REAL USE here.
Gary Childress
Posts: 7767
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: Defining a "Normal Mind"

Post by Gary Childress »

TommyB wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:18 pm So, did Guy have a "normal mind"?
Who cares. He's dead. It's the same thing that's going to happen to all of us.
Walker
Posts: 14140
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Defining a "Normal Mind"

Post by Walker »

Age wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 9:42 am There is NO such 'thing' as a 'human mind' NOR many 'minds'.

Also, the word 'normal', without an agreed upon classification or definition here, is far to subjective to be of ANY REAL USE here.
I agree. Each living thing has access to the same mind, however the extent of the access varies amongst each living thing, and there are identifiable causes that limit access.
Walker
Posts: 14140
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Defining a "Normal Mind"

Post by Walker »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2023 4:29 pm
TommyB wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:18 pm So, did Guy have a "normal mind"?
Who cares. He's dead. It's the same thing that's going to happen to all of us.
The Way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGcvBqRgaH0

Great Film Theme Song!

Let it surround you to know why. (The wind, the rain.)
Post Reply