Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

For philosophical reflections on the COVID-19 pandemic. How can philosophy help us to understand it, to combat it and to survive it?

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nemos
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Re: Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

Post by nemos »

Sculptor wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:56 am ... individuals think that they can get away with not taking the jab, since, they reason their personal chance of getting the disease is low ...
I don't want to argue with your arguments, especially since they are so familiar that arguing with them is like arguing whether matter is ethereal or corpuscular.
I just wanted to defend a little the objectivity of my comment by revealing that it was not based on the illusion of safety guaranteed by vaccines, but on personal struggles with infection and, accordingly, personal experience and evaluation of the consequences and their severity. I am not denying the usefulness of vaccines, only their unwise use.
In any case, nobody immunised you against measles and rubella with regularity every few months.
Vaccine technologies are also slightly different, the nice RNA-based ones don't actually find such unanimous support among professionals, it's just that those who had a view that didn't match the official one (e.g. that it's not very appropriate to vaccinate during an epidemic) were strongly advised to shut up.
I wonder if you have heard about the risks of autoimmune side effects from these RNA vaccines, a very unpleasant thing indeed. And yet, without counting the risks, this medical experiment was carried out globally, with the risk that the possible consequences could also be global.

In any case, the truth is not characterised by being concentrated at the extremes; as practice has shown, it prefers to be in the relatively shock-free middle ground.
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Sculptor
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Re: Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

Post by Sculptor »

nemos wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 11:48 am
Sculptor wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:56 am ... individuals think that they can get away with not taking the jab, since, they reason their personal chance of getting the disease is low ...
I don't want to argue with your arguments, especially since they are so familiar that arguing with them is like arguing whether matter is ethereal or corpuscular.
I just wanted to defend a little the objectivity of my comment by revealing that it was not based on the illusion of safety guaranteed by vaccines, but on personal struggles with infection and, accordingly, personal experience and evaluation of the consequences and their severity. I am not denying the usefulness of vaccines, only their unwise use.
In any case, nobody immunised you against measles and rubella with regularity every few months.
Immunity lasts. If you have had measels or rubella or the vaccination before, you are protected for life.
What is your point here?

Vaccine technologies are also slightly different, the nice RNA-based ones don't actually find such unanimous support among professionals, it's just that those who had a view that didn't match the official one (e.g. that it's not very appropriate to vaccinate during an epidemic) were strongly advised to shut up.
Evidence?
I wonder if you have heard about the risks of autoimmune side effects from these RNA vaccines, a very unpleasant thing indeed. And yet, without counting the risks, this medical experiment was carried out globally, with the risk that the possible consequences could also be global.
I was not talking at all about the COVID jab.
My third one made me very ill and I suspect that the effects may still be with me.
Annoying, but as a person with multiple morbidities I am still alive and have never had a case of COVID infection.

In any case, the truth is not characterised by being concentrated at the extremes; as practice has shown, it prefers to be in the relatively shock-free middle ground.
Again. Puzzling what point you are trying to make here.

I am going to presume that you are not going to deny that COVID caused around 7 million deaths? And I would ask how many more would have died if there had been no vaccine at all ?

The valid comparison may well be so-called "Spanish Flu" which claimed 500 million and with a world population significantly smaller than our own, then being around the 2 billion mark. With 4 times that number today we could have expected a much larger rate of fatality, all things being equal
nemos
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:15 am

Re: Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

Post by nemos »

As I said, I don't want to argue. I was just sharing my experience, which formed the basis of my convictions, which I am entitled to - especially when it comes to the question of my existence and its quality. I do not have to prove to anyone that I am not a giraffe.
I have contracted that terrible Covid at least 3 times, the third time I am not sure because it was asymptomatic apart from raised antibodies. And I did not see anything in it that could convince me of the adequacy of the madness. But I am not asking anyone not to vaccinate, just don't force it on me.
Alexiev
Posts: 324
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:32 am

Re: Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

Post by Alexiev »

nemos wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 2:10 pm As I said, I don't want to argue. I was just sharing my experience, which formed the basis of my convictions, which I am entitled to - especially when it comes to the question of my existence and its quality. I do not have to prove to anyone that I am not a giraffe.
I have contracted that terrible Covid at least 3 times, the third time I am not sure because it was asymptomatic apart from raised antibodies. And I did not see anything in it that could convince me of the adequacy of the madness. But I am not asking anyone not to vaccinate, just don't force it on me.
The idea that vaccination is a personal decision is both misguided and immoral. The infectious disease that has killed more humans than any other in the history of the world is smallpox. It no longer exists. A campaign of vaccination wiped it out and there have been no cases in the last 50 years.

Now that many childhood diseases have been practically eliminated through vaccination programs, it may actually be safer not to get vaccinated for chicken pox, polio or measles. Since there are few infections (because of vaccination) children are unlikely to contract the diseases, and the vaccines have rare and minor side effects. Nonetheless, if everyone refused to be vaccinated, the diseases would make a comeback and as recently as 1960 there was one death from measles per 1000 people in the population.

So decisions about vaccination are not "personal". They are matters of public health. Thinking only of oneself is the mark of an immoral jerk.
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