Kantian questions in light of the east

[Peter Kropotkin]

as I have noted, I am engaged in a study of eastern philosophy,
right now, Indian philosophy...

but let us ask the Kantian questions in light of eastern philosophy...
especially '''Maya'' which means illusion....

the first Kantian question: ''what am I to do?''

if as Indian philosophy suggests, that part of, indeed all of the world
we see is an illusion, then the goal of ''what am I do to?" becomes
a question of freeing oneself from this illusion... how do we free ourselves
from ''maya?''

do we examine the world to see what part of it is ''maya'' or do we just
accept that the world is ''maya?''
if we do not examine the world, just accepting that the world is ''maya''
then we must examine ourselves... to see what beliefs and values we
hold are illusions... 

as I have suggested, that is exactly what Nietzsche suggested.. to examine
ourselves, our values, our beliefs....and if we have been indoctrinated into
certain values that are illusions, then we must rid ourselves of them,
we must overcome them... we must see the world as is, if we are to
either understand it or to change it..... we cannot transform that
which we do not understand... so if we are to, as many today suggest,
transform the world, we had better understand it first...

''what am I to do?'' in light of eastern philosophy, is to rid ourselves of
illusions and if I rid myself of enough illusions, I can then reunite with
the one... called by many in Indian philosophy, the Brahman/Atman..
which the ''cosmic principle''... so think of atman, which is the individual
soul, as a drop of water and Brahman as being a sea.. the goal is to
be that drop of water that drops into the sea...

so, I would, as my goal of ''what am I to do'', is to become one with
Brahman... and then I wouldn't not ''suffer'' anymore by being
born and reborn into the world...

now this isn't that different than what Christians are trying to do,
become one with god... so, salvation is found by becoming one
with the supreme being or the highest power...

the question however presupposes that there is in fact a higher power,
or a ultimate being that we can become part of....

in a no-god universe, which is also a no-Brahman universe, what then
are our choices? become one with.....?

so, we are guessing, hoping for, having faith in some sort of higher
power or something like the sea to drop into....

that is a mighty big hope, or something to have faith in....

the second Kantian question, ''what can I know?''

we certainly can't know if there is a god or some Brahman universe..
all of that is assumptions... we can't know if we are even reborn,
that is an assumption... what can I know right now, that is not
''maya?''

well, I am here, right here, right now... annnnnnd, I can't really
speak for anyone or anything else...right now, my daughter is
bothering me, so I can be sure of that... is there such a thing
as the future? not that I can tell... I can't report on something that
hasn't happened yet....
and the past, well, I can only speak about things and people, I
directly know or had experiences with... and that isn't really true..
I experienced being born, but I couldn't tell you a thing about it..
just stories I've heard over the years about my birth, from my mom
or my older sister...
my very first memory is of driving to a hospital in Minneapolis,
with a sore throat, I wasn't even two at the time... I had my tonsils
taken out and had a lot of Ice cream... and I can't even be sure if
that memory is really accurate due to the long time since then...62 years...

I have scars on my legs and head, but I'm not exactly sure where I got
them from...I had a lot of stitches as a kid....so the past for me,
is a bit hazy and I can't trust my memories of the past, so that leaves
me with the present... today, right now, right here...

and the third Kantian question, ''what can I hope for'' or ''what can I believe in?''

hence we have philosophy.... what values are the values we should hold
and what values and beliefs are ''maya''.. illusions....

I have to go to work now, but later.. I shall return...

Kropotkin

[Veritas Aequitas]

Your views of Eastern and Kantian is in a mess and too superficial.

The term 'maya' is adopted both by Hinduism and Buddhism.

Maya (/ˈmɑːjə/; Devanagari: माया, IAST: māyā), literally "illusion" or "magic",[1][2][3] has multiple meanings in Indian philosophies depending on the context.
It also as multiple meaning within the various schools of Buddhism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_(religion)

What is practical amongst its multiple meaning is to understand and differentiate "what is real" and "what is an illusion."
This the Kantian 'what can I know and believe in' the epistemology.

Both Hinduism and Buddhism recognized 'all phenomena' are real-relatively but to insist dogmatically that phenomena are real-absolutely is illusory and in this case they are idealized as illusions.
This is where Kant introduced his concept of noumena claimed to be the real independent objective representation of the phenomena. This claim is illusory.

In Hinduism, advaita vedanta believers are advised not to cling to relative phenomena as absolutely real [thus illusory] but rather should realized Brahman as absolutely real. Therefore whatever one does will be in alignment with reality and the good.

In Buddhism, believers are advised not to cling to relative phenomena as absolutely real [thus illusory]; such clingingness to what is illusory will bring forth sufferings [dukkha] which need to be resolved.
Thus Buddhist are encouraged to believe phenomena only as relatively-real but not as absolutely-real.

So, it is not "indeed all of the world we see is an illusion" which can be dangerous idea that could lead to nihilism, solipsism or ascetism.

"The world we see" is not an illusion but rather to believe dogmatically "the world we see" is absolutely-real dogmatically is delusional.
The world we see and live it must be taken as really real but only as relatively-real, not as absolutely-real.
What is taken as absolutely-real i.e. as mind-independent, is an illusion.

Re the The Ten Oxherding Pictures
https://tricycle.org/magazine/ten-oxherding-pictures/
one will have to go on an enlightenment journey to understand the absolutely-real is an illusion [nothing, empty, sunyata] and only the relative-real is the really real to live with.
Once enlightened with that realization, one can do whatever one want within relative-reality [chop wood, carry water] because all considerations of wisdom and morality are taken care thereof.
This is the Kantian 'what I can do and hope for'.

[Walker]

"one will have to go on an enlightenment journey to understand the absolutely-real is an illusion [nothing, empty, sunyata] and only the relative-real is the really real to live with."

Hello. I'd like to offer this clarification for you to consider.

Emptiness is not nothingness. Emptiness is pure, unsullied infinte potentiality, and infinite potentiality holds everything. Thus the paradoxical conclusion of, emptiness is everything.

[Veritas Aequitas]

"one will have to go on an enlightenment journey to understand the absolutely-real is an illusion [nothing, empty, sunyata] and only the relative-real is the really real to live with."

Hello. I'd like to offer this clarification for you to consider.

Emptiness is not nothingness. Emptiness is pure, unsullied infinte potentiality, and infinite potentiality holds everything. Thus the paradoxical conclusion of, emptiness is everything.

The above is not applicable in the context of Buddhism where 'emptiness' and 'nothingness' are synonymous.

The above could be applicable to the pantheism of advaita vedanta and the medieval theology of Aquinas.

[Peter Kropotkin]

let us shift gears a bit... as I have stated before, I think
that the modern search for the trinkets of our times, money, fame,
titles, power, material possessions.. are all a search for the moment,
that there is nothing permanent in seeking out these things...
money come and goes as does power and fame and titles and
material possessions.... they are illusions.. ''maya'' as the Indian
philosophers may call it...

but with this said, is there something to be said about ''illusions''..
that even illusions have value of sorts.....

one of the true pleasures of life is those little moments.. of
seeing a beautiful sunset or watching a dog play in the water
or seeing a child happy with a new toy....

these moments are brief moments, illusions it can be said,
and yet, these moments can have value even if, even if those moments
are transitory, brief, ''ad hoc''.... much can be said about stopping
and smelling the roses.... and their value, of the moment, is
that they break up our beliefs and thoughts of the moment....
we humans get fixated on certain things, and by taking a break,
watching the sunset, we can see existence in a different light....
we get out of our own head, even for a moment, and that makes
all the difference in the world......when I wake up in the morning on
a day where I don't work, I begin to study eastern philosophy fairly early,
usually by 6:30 in the morning.. I am into the book I am reading...
and depending on the day, I won't stop until noon, but I do take breaks...
I stop and take a breath, even take a nap on the couch for a bit... just to
break up the day....and that break can make all the difference in the world in
regards to what I learn that day..... we human beings are built to take
a break every couple of hours or so.... to refocused on something else,
that is often enough to allow us to see things in a different light...
it is just another way of smelling the roses or taking a break to
watch the sunset.... full on concentration on something, after a
while we daze over, fall asleep, become numb to it... by taking
a break, we become more alive to the possibilities in our studies...

the modern term is burn out.... we burn out if we focus on something
too hard or too long....I have been working for 47 years.. I am totally
burned out.. but I can't stop because of the way my company has
retirement set up.. and the way Social Security is.... and so,
I focus on matters like philosophy, both eastern and western,
as a means of slowing down my burn out...it gives me something to
look forward to...beside work.. which has no interest for me anymore...
I view it as a prison term I must serve to be finally free...

so, the Kantian question, ''what am I to do?" means something different
as I age... to become, yes, but to refocused, to pause long enough to
recharge my batteries, as it were... it is not enough to engage in
the pursuit of the trinkets of existence... we have to pause long  
enough to give us space to see matters differently...
to mix it up, to smell the flowers or watch a sunset, means
we are breaking up our pursuits, to avoid being burned out...

and yes, yes that watching the sunset is an illusion and yes,
the smelling of roses is an illusion... but, I for one,
believe in the value of the occasional illusion that
breaks up our existence, has value, real value in our lives....

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

as I have grown older, I have become more and more aware of
ego and its impact on who we are and our actions.....

as I have grown older, I have seen the working of ego on people,
but I have noticed that women tend to flow within the state/society
better than men because women act less with ego than men do....
( I am not saying women don't have ego's, they do, but they tend to
keep their ego in check better than men do)

and as a man, I admit, that quite often I act within ego, more than
with awareness or understanding of what my actions may mean....
I react with ego instead of thinking or being aware of my actions....

when you hear someone say, ''only I can fix this'' that is pure ego...
nothing more....and when I think to myself, ''I can do this better than
they can'' that is ego at work....

and by acting within ego, we quite often make mistakes in our actions...
because we haven't thought about it.. we simply react instead of
becoming aware of the possibilities.... as I quite often do....

''what am I to do" a very important question but a question that must
be answered without ego... by being aware of what is and isn't possible...

''what am I to do?" can you answer that without ego?

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

let us try this thought experiment...

let us say that everyone becomes enlightened.. we are all Buddhas...
where there is no ego, no attachments to people, things, places...
and according to Buddhist thought, there isn't any more
rebirth... for that is the goal... to no longer be reborn which
is the path to a no-suffering universe...but everyone the Buddha...
that means that no one is being reborn... that is the end of the civilization...
of human existence....and what about animals? their point in Buddhist
philosophy is to be the punishment for those who "karma" is not good...
Buddhism uses animals as punishment for those who are further
away from enlightenment... but what about animals, if everyone
is now enlightened? are animals no longer being born? if they are not
the point of punishment, then what is their value? what is their meaning?

and what about the idea that as our goal is to be atman, to be a drop
of water into Brahman, the ocean.. well, everyone is in the ocean,
does human existence end? let us say that human existence does
not end, but we exists like the Buddha.... we sit under the trees
and meditate.... think of a world where everyone meditates...
there is no smelling the roses.. because that is all we are doing...
there is no need for us to do anything because we have lost
our illusions and see that the universe is not real... only
Brahman is real... everything else is illusion.... but what does
that look like in a real world? I can't see people falling in love or
marrying or having children.... that doesn't make sense in a world
where we all have achieved enlightenment...
and what about watching TV or watching the sunset or listening to music...
how does that work in a world where everyone is enlightened?

today, we have a world with color and drama and conflict and tragedy
and comedy... what about a world without any of these things?
the world is one shade of gray.. enlightened... there is no point
to any other color or actions if we are enlightened...

why get worked up about politics or religion or sports or the law?
there is not point to that because we don't have any of that in
an enlightened world....

what do we do for fun in an enlightened world?
everything is a matter of indifference and we are beyond
the need for our current beliefs and actions.... for those are based on
the many illusions that drive our current existence.... we no longer
hold to those illusions, so what is left?

I don't think this is a world I would want to live in.... just like being
in Heaven for eternity sounds like hell to me, living in a world
where everyone is enlightened sounds like hell to me....
a world I don't want to live in....carried to completion,
having everyone enlightened is a terrible idea...for there is
no path forward.... no past, no present, no future...
it is and it always will be.... does that sound like a world
you want to live in?

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

but Kropotkin, clearly not everyone will become enlightened....

and So, existence is simply one where we work toward enlightenment,
but never being able to reach that goal..... and once again, that sounds
like a world I am not sure I want to live in...we continually strive for
enlightenment and some of us will always fail... thus holding everyone else
back.....if you want to see if a pursuit is worth it, go to the end
and see what kind of world happens if we actually achieve that goal?

take the conservative wet dream... no liberals, and that is a world
that is stagnate and has nothing going on... it is basically the Middle ages..
and that is the goal of conservatives... to return to the Middle ages...
it has been said the worst year in human existence was right
in the Middle ages... the Medieval scholar Michael McCormick
has nominated the year 536 AD, as the worst year in human history
to be alive....

push the ideas of ism into the final goal and what kind of world
do we see? In Buddhism, the final goal doesn't seem to me anyway,
worth living and the final goal in a conservative's wet dream, doesn't seem
to me anyway, to be worth living...

so push an ideology into the final goal and see if it is worth living in?

Kropotkin