God doesn't deserve worship

[Age]

What are your minimum conditions for a world that would result in you worshiping God?

To me God is NOT some 'thing' that needs to be NOR even wants to be 'worshiped'.

That a human being has come-to-exist WITH 'consciousness' of BEING ALIVE and LIVING in THE Universe I think is some 'thing' to MARVEL, BEHOLD, and NOT 'take for granted', as the length of 'time' that 'this' ACTUALLY happens and occurs IN, is, literally, 'in the blink of an eye', RELATIVE to the WHOLE Picture and STORY.

But, it also depends on HOW 'we' want to define the 'worship' word here.

If by just living WITH 'the earth', "others", and THE Universe, Itself, and NOT 'abusing' ANY of those 'things', then 'this behavior' could be, in a way, 'worshiping', which I would then say could be and would be a 'minimum condition' 'for a world' that IS resulting in 'worshiping' God, Itself. But then 'I' do HAVE and USE a DIFFERENT definition of 'God', then most of 'you', adult human beings. HAVE and USE.

I'm sorry about the missing words in my post...

you do NOT have to be 'sorry' for 'this', well NOT to 'me' anyway, as 'we' ALL do 'this' from time to time. It is just some 'thing' that 'we' ALL NEED to be 'more aware of', and need to 'catch' "ourselves" when 'we' do 'it', if 'we' really want to communicate better with "each other".

I meant to say every human eventually dies of old age if they don't die of something else first.

you might find 'me' VERY ANNOYING, like "others" do here, but I have a tendency to 'pick up' on ABSOLUTELY EVERY 'thing' that I SEE is NOT expressing the ABSOLUTE, ACTUAL, and IRREFUTABLE Truth.

It has been reported that ACTUALLY NO human being so-calls 'dies' of 'old age'. 'They' ALWAYS ALL 'die' of some 'thing' ELSE. And, if one is to think ABOUT 'this' from a Truly OPEN perspective, and NOT just LISTEN TO 'it' FROM 'previous experiences' ONLY, then there might well be FAR MORE truth in 'this'.

If we are think ABOUT what IS 'old age', EXACTLY, THEN what IS 'old age', EXACTLY? And, HOW could one, ACTUALLY, 'die' of 'it'?

And so even if everything in a human life were to go absolutely "perfectly",

BUT absolutely EVERY 'thing' IS going ABSOLUTELY 'PERFECTLY', in Life, the Universe, Itself, and thus in human life AS WELL. Although there are SOME human beings who might NOT 'think so'.

they eventually die and you can then claim that God is not worthy of worship because a human life you valued ended.

1. 'Valuing' 'one human life' OVER "another" is FOOLISH in and of itself. Although, OBVIOUSLY, 'you', human beings, are brought up to BELIEVE that 'doing so' is the RIGHT and even BEST 'thing' TO DO.

2. ACTUALLY NO 'human being' 'dies'. Although, and obviously, EVERY 'human body' STOPS pumping blood and STOPS breathing.

3. I would suggest that one would HAVE TO KNOW, FULLY, who and what 'God' IS, EXACTLY, BEFORE they could even BEGIN TO CLAIM that God IS, or IS NOT, so-called 'worthy of worship'. And, ONCE one KNOWS who and what 'God' IS, EXACTLY and FULLY, then ANY perception of being so-called 'worthy of worship', or not, disintegrates COMPLETELY.

I agree with most of what you said including that humans don't in medical terms die of old age and living an authentic life respectful of others (to borrow a word from existentialism) can in some sense be a form of worshiping God. However, even though God may not need or want to be worshiped, humans may want to worship God anyways.

'you', human beings, ARE ABSOLUTELY FREE to 'think' and 'do' ABSOLUTELY ANY 'thing'.

So, IF ANY of 'you' WANT TO 'worship' some 'thing', which NONE of 'you' YET have been ABLE TO 'define' AND 'explain', then PLEASE by ALL MEANS KEEP going on doing 'it'.

Just as there are people who don't celebrate their own birthday in any way, but other people celebrate their birthday.

Do 'you' REALLY think or BELIEVE that 'worshiping' some UNKNOWN 'thing', or NOT, is JUST LIKE 'celebrating' one's OWN birthday, or NOT?

However, I don't think one needs to know every single detail about a person before they celebrate their birthday, and for the same reason I don't think one needs to know every single detail about God before worshiping god.

Okay. As I continually SAY, 'you' ARE ABSOLUTELY FREE to 'think' or BELIEVE ABSOLUTELY ANY 'thing'.

AND, if you WANT TO 'think' or BELIEVE that it IS WISE to 'worship' A 'Thing', which one has YET REALLY NO idea NOR clue ABOUT, then PLEASE feel FREE TO CARRY ON as 'you' ARE.

If 'it' MAKES 'you' FEEL BETTER, then WHY STOP DOING 'it'?

So if someone's intuition is that God is exceptionally good and furthermore that it gives them satisfaction with life to worship God, then I believe it is a good idea for them to do that.

AGAIN 'you' ARE ABSOLUTELY FREE TO BELIEVE absolutely ANY 'thing' that you like. BUT, and AGAIN, just BELIEVING some 'thing' IS TRUE will NEVER MAKE 'it' TRUE.

Also, I do NOT think that it is a VERY GOOD IDEA to BELIEVE 'things', which could be False, Wrong, Inaccurate, and/or Incorrect, or even PARTLY false, wrong, inaccurate, and/or incorrect.

In fact I think that it is COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY TO BELIEVE ABSOLUTELY ANY 'thing', except, OF COURSE, the one and ONLY 'thing', and that it LEADS TO DETRIMENT TO BELIEVE ABSOLUTELY ANY 'thing' ELSE.

I can understand how there is an indirect self-referential loop in God creating a person to focus on the external, but the person then focuses on God, which reflects back internally.

Okay. It IS Truly AMAZING what some people can understand and what some people can NOT, right?

Someone might arrive at the conclusion that therefore its better to worship by living an authentic respectful life than singing songs of praise, which I look at as a personal preference that does not offend God either way.

Okay. But God REALLY does NOT care ONE IOTA what 'you', think or BELIEVE, as long as what 'you' are 'thinking' AND BELIEVING will in NO WAY ABUSE absolutely ANY 'thing'.

[Wizard22]

IF 'one' THINKS that what 'they' SEE IN A mirror IS 'them', a 'self', or 'self-recognition', then 'this' just EXPLAINS and SHOWS WHY 'these human beings', BACK THEN when this is being written, took SO LONG TO COME-TO-REALIZE and COME-TO-KNOW the, proper AND correct, ANSWER TO the QUESTION, 'Who am 'I'?' AS 'we' DO.

What 'you' are SAYING and WRITING here "wizard22" is SO VERY OLD and OUTDATED that 'it' is hardly even REMEMBERED in the 'psyche' ANYMORE.

So...you can't recognize yourself in a mirror?

[Age]

IF 'one' THINKS that what 'they' SEE IN A mirror IS 'them', a 'self', or 'self-recognition', then 'this' just EXPLAINS and SHOWS WHY 'these human beings', BACK THEN when this is being written, took SO LONG TO COME-TO-REALIZE and COME-TO-KNOW the, proper AND correct, ANSWER TO the QUESTION, 'Who am 'I'?' AS 'we' DO.

What 'you' are SAYING and WRITING here "wizard22" is SO VERY OLD and OUTDATED that 'it' is hardly even REMEMBERED in the 'psyche' ANYMORE.

So...you can't recognize yourself in a mirror?

If 'you' think or BELIEVE that the words 'self', or the word 'person', are words relating to the human body, itself, before a mirror, then 'you' ARE very sadly MISTAKEN. Unless, OF COURSE, those human bodies, for example, with arms or legs missing, to 'you', are 'people' who are less than what "other" 'people' are. If 'you' did, then 'you' would also see those smaller human bodies as being 'persons' who are 'less than' say 'you' for example, which would obviously include 'children'. And, if 'you' think or BELIEVE that 'children' ARE LESSER 'persons' than what 'you' BELIEVE 'you' to be, then 'this' would NOT surprise 'me' in the slightest.

Also, and by the way, the word or phrase, "yourself", is just an 'oxymoron' and/or a 'self-refuting' term anyway.

AND, 'you', "wizard22", OBVIOUSLY have NOT YET RECOGNIZED and COME-TO-TERMS WITH what the words 'self' and 'I' ACTUALLY MEAN and ARE REFERRING TO, EXACTLY, ANYWAY.

[puto]

Personhood has a meaning, and surely you are trying to be cynical, at least, I think. Possessing, a moral satire, to the meaning of metaphysics? Cynicism has a meaning and please look it up. Are you trying to be skeptical, but do not know how? Try being philosophical. Quite being a double thinker and your double standards of thought. Skepticism is a way of thought, and not a way of saying things you cannot possibly comprehend.

[Age]

Personhood has a meaning, and surely you are trying to be cynical, at least, I think. Possessing, a moral satire, to the meaning of metaphysics? Cynicism has a meaning and please look it up. Are you trying to be skeptical, but do not know how? Try being philosophical. Quite being a double thinker and your double standards of thought. Skepticism is a way of thought, and not a way of saying things you cannot possibly comprehend.

I think you have completely misinterpreted and/or misconstrued what I have been actually saying, and meaning.

But then I do not even know what you are talking about and referring to here, exactly.

By they way, WHY did you private message me this EXACT SAME post?

[puto]

Truth does not mind being questioned, so why is this board cynical and hostile towards one another?

[Age]

Truth does not mind being questioned,

Which IS WHY I SEEK and ASK to be QUESTIONED, and also CHALLENGED by the way.

so why is this board cynical and hostile towards one another?

Is it just 'this board' where there is cynicism and hostility towards "one another", or is 'this way' of misbehaving just more or less A SIGN OF the general behavior of adult human beings, in the days when this is being written, when 'they' are HOLDING ONTO a BELIEF, or 'position'?

[rootseeker]

To me God is NOT some 'thing' that needs to be NOR even wants to be 'worshiped'.

That a human being has come-to-exist WITH 'consciousness' of BEING ALIVE and LIVING in THE Universe I think is some 'thing' to MARVEL, BEHOLD, and NOT 'take for granted', as the length of 'time' that 'this' ACTUALLY happens and occurs IN, is, literally, 'in the blink of an eye', RELATIVE to the WHOLE Picture and STORY.

But, it also depends on HOW 'we' want to define the 'worship' word here.

If by just living WITH 'the earth', "others", and THE Universe, Itself, and NOT 'abusing' ANY of those 'things', then 'this behavior' could be, in a way, 'worshiping', which I would then say could be and would be a 'minimum condition' 'for a world' that IS resulting in 'worshiping' God, Itself. But then 'I' do HAVE and USE a DIFFERENT definition of 'God', then most of 'you', adult human beings. HAVE and USE.


you do NOT have to be 'sorry' for 'this', well NOT to 'me' anyway, as 'we' ALL do 'this' from time to time. It is just some 'thing' that 'we' ALL NEED to be 'more aware of', and need to 'catch' "ourselves" when 'we' do 'it', if 'we' really want to communicate better with "each other".


you might find 'me' VERY ANNOYING, like "others" do here, but I have a tendency to 'pick up' on ABSOLUTELY EVERY 'thing' that I SEE is NOT expressing the ABSOLUTE, ACTUAL, and IRREFUTABLE Truth.

It has been reported that ACTUALLY NO human being so-calls 'dies' of 'old age'. 'They' ALWAYS ALL 'die' of some 'thing' ELSE. And, if one is to think ABOUT 'this' from a Truly OPEN perspective, and NOT just LISTEN TO 'it' FROM 'previous experiences' ONLY, then there might well be FAR MORE truth in 'this'.

If we are think ABOUT what IS 'old age', EXACTLY, THEN what IS 'old age', EXACTLY? And, HOW could one, ACTUALLY, 'die' of 'it'?



BUT absolutely EVERY 'thing' IS going ABSOLUTELY 'PERFECTLY', in Life, the Universe, Itself, and thus in human life AS WELL. Although there are SOME human beings who might NOT 'think so'.



1. 'Valuing' 'one human life' OVER "another" is FOOLISH in and of itself. Although, OBVIOUSLY, 'you', human beings, are brought up to BELIEVE that 'doing so' is the RIGHT and even BEST 'thing' TO DO.

2. ACTUALLY NO 'human being' 'dies'. Although, and obviously, EVERY 'human body' STOPS pumping blood and STOPS breathing.

3. I would suggest that one would HAVE TO KNOW, FULLY, who and what 'God' IS, EXACTLY, BEFORE they could even BEGIN TO CLAIM that God IS, or IS NOT, so-called 'worthy of worship'. And, ONCE one KNOWS who and what 'God' IS, EXACTLY and FULLY, then ANY perception of being so-called 'worthy of worship', or not, disintegrates COMPLETELY.

I agree with most of what you said including that humans don't in medical terms die of old age and living an authentic life respectful of others (to borrow a word from existentialism) can in some sense be a form of worshiping God. However, even though God may not need or want to be worshiped, humans may want to worship God anyways.

'you', human beings, ARE ABSOLUTELY FREE to 'think' and 'do' ABSOLUTELY ANY 'thing'.

So, IF ANY of 'you' WANT TO 'worship' some 'thing', which NONE of 'you' YET have been ABLE TO 'define' AND 'explain', then PLEASE by ALL MEANS KEEP going on doing 'it'.

Just as there are people who don't celebrate their own birthday in any way, but other people celebrate their birthday.

Do 'you' REALLY think or BELIEVE that 'worshiping' some UNKNOWN 'thing', or NOT, is JUST LIKE 'celebrating' one's OWN birthday, or NOT?

However, I don't think one needs to know every single detail about a person before they celebrate their birthday, and for the same reason I don't think one needs to know every single detail about God before worshiping god.

Okay. As I continually SAY, 'you' ARE ABSOLUTELY FREE to 'think' or BELIEVE ABSOLUTELY ANY 'thing'.

AND, if you WANT TO 'think' or BELIEVE that it IS WISE to 'worship' A 'Thing', which one has YET REALLY NO idea NOR clue ABOUT, then PLEASE feel FREE TO CARRY ON as 'you' ARE.

If 'it' MAKES 'you' FEEL BETTER, then WHY STOP DOING 'it'?

So if someone's intuition is that God is exceptionally good and furthermore that it gives them satisfaction with life to worship God, then I believe it is a good idea for them to do that.

AGAIN 'you' ARE ABSOLUTELY FREE TO BELIEVE absolutely ANY 'thing' that you like. BUT, and AGAIN, just BELIEVING some 'thing' IS TRUE will NEVER MAKE 'it' TRUE.

Also, I do NOT think that it is a VERY GOOD IDEA to BELIEVE 'things', which could be False, Wrong, Inaccurate, and/or Incorrect, or even PARTLY false, wrong, inaccurate, and/or incorrect.

In fact I think that it is COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY TO BELIEVE ABSOLUTELY ANY 'thing', except, OF COURSE, the one and ONLY 'thing', and that it LEADS TO DETRIMENT TO BELIEVE ABSOLUTELY ANY 'thing' ELSE.

I can understand how there is an indirect self-referential loop in God creating a person to focus on the external, but the person then focuses on God, which reflects back internally.

Okay. It IS Truly AMAZING what some people can understand and what some people can NOT, right?

Someone might arrive at the conclusion that therefore its better to worship by living an authentic respectful life than singing songs of praise, which I look at as a personal preference that does not offend God either way.

Okay. But God REALLY does NOT care ONE IOTA what 'you', think or BELIEVE, as long as what 'you' are 'thinking' AND BELIEVING will in NO WAY ABUSE absolutely ANY 'thing'.

I don't think of worshiping God like celebrating one's own birthday, I think it like celebrating someone else's birthday. In some Eastern philosophy definition of God as a pantheistic entity I can see how it would be like celebrating one's own birthday. Is that Eastern the definition of God you are using? There is quite a large leap between knowing everything there is to know about God and having a clue about God. I have noticed the love of God and the grace of God, and consider that sufficient for worship. If you are correct that is all a delusion of mine, then my praise is misdirected, I may eventually figure that out and re-direct my feeling of satisfaction. The truth has a way of coming to light.

I consider belief as being on a scale of 0% to 100% confident. I believe any level of confidence whatsoever, so long as it is the most confident belief of any competing alternatives being evaluated, has utility. If I thought life was ultimately just one kind of random chance or another, then I suppose it would all be about luck and I'd possibly want to worship a 4-leaf clover I found in a park. So if I am a seeker, go on a life journey, and ten years later the best I come up with is life is about random chance with a 1% certainty, but I have no other ideas of any certainty whatsoever, then I think that its not a bad idea to focus on luck as means of self-improvement. Supposedly there are atheists out there who seek God and that is the kind of journey they imply they believe are ending on. Though I do find that difficult to believe, I won't question their own experience such as calling them liars.

But yet I'd agree with this hypothetical scenario of worshiping a 4-leaf clover isn't a very good idea. I'd say instead that its a 1% good idea. As the person becomes more than halfway to maximum confidence, it a good idea. I'd say that at 100% confidence it becomes a very good idea for them to try.

[Age]

I agree with most of what you said including that humans don't in medical terms die of old age and living an authentic life respectful of others (to borrow a word from existentialism) can in some sense be a form of worshiping God. However, even though God may not need or want to be worshiped, humans may want to worship God anyways.

'you', human beings, ARE ABSOLUTELY FREE to 'think' and 'do' ABSOLUTELY ANY 'thing'.

So, IF ANY of 'you' WANT TO 'worship' some 'thing', which NONE of 'you' YET have been ABLE TO 'define' AND 'explain', then PLEASE by ALL MEANS KEEP going on doing 'it'.

Just as there are people who don't celebrate their own birthday in any way, but other people celebrate their birthday.

Do 'you' REALLY think or BELIEVE that 'worshiping' some UNKNOWN 'thing', or NOT, is JUST LIKE 'celebrating' one's OWN birthday, or NOT?

However, I don't think one needs to know every single detail about a person before they celebrate their birthday, and for the same reason I don't think one needs to know every single detail about God before worshiping god.

Okay. As I continually SAY, 'you' ARE ABSOLUTELY FREE to 'think' or BELIEVE ABSOLUTELY ANY 'thing'.

AND, if you WANT TO 'think' or BELIEVE that it IS WISE to 'worship' A 'Thing', which one has YET REALLY NO idea NOR clue ABOUT, then PLEASE feel FREE TO CARRY ON as 'you' ARE.

If 'it' MAKES 'you' FEEL BETTER, then WHY STOP DOING 'it'?

So if someone's intuition is that God is exceptionally good and furthermore that it gives them satisfaction with life to worship God, then I believe it is a good idea for them to do that.

AGAIN 'you' ARE ABSOLUTELY FREE TO BELIEVE absolutely ANY 'thing' that you like. BUT, and AGAIN, just BELIEVING some 'thing' IS TRUE will NEVER MAKE 'it' TRUE.

Also, I do NOT think that it is a VERY GOOD IDEA to BELIEVE 'things', which could be False, Wrong, Inaccurate, and/or Incorrect, or even PARTLY false, wrong, inaccurate, and/or incorrect.

In fact I think that it is COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY TO BELIEVE ABSOLUTELY ANY 'thing', except, OF COURSE, the one and ONLY 'thing', and that it LEADS TO DETRIMENT TO BELIEVE ABSOLUTELY ANY 'thing' ELSE.

I can understand how there is an indirect self-referential loop in God creating a person to focus on the external, but the person then focuses on God, which reflects back internally.

Okay. It IS Truly AMAZING what some people can understand and what some people can NOT, right?

Someone might arrive at the conclusion that therefore its better to worship by living an authentic respectful life than singing songs of praise, which I look at as a personal preference that does not offend God either way.

Okay. But God REALLY does NOT care ONE IOTA what 'you', think or BELIEVE, as long as what 'you' are 'thinking' AND BELIEVING will in NO WAY ABUSE absolutely ANY 'thing'.

I don't think of worshiping God like celebrating one's own birthday, I think it like celebrating someone else's birthday.

Okay.

Do 'you' REALLY think or BELIEVE that 'worshiping' some UNKNOWN 'thing', or NOT, is JUST LIKE 'celebrating' ANY one's birthday, or NOT?

I added the 'ANY' word in and removed the 'OWN' word here now, in case you did NOT notice the difference.

In some Eastern philosophy definition of God as a pantheistic entity I can see how it would be like celebrating one's own birthday. Is that Eastern the definition of God you are using?

NO.

There is quite a large leap between knowing everything there is to know about God and having a clue about God.

YES, VERY True.

I have noticed the love of God and the grace of God, and consider that sufficient for worship.

And what was 'it', EXACTLY, that you NOTICED?

What IS 'the love of God' compared to 'the love of a "mother", a "brother", or a 'dog', for example, EXACTLY?

If you are correct that is all a delusion of mine, then my praise is misdirected, I may eventually figure that out and re-direct my feeling of satisfaction. The truth has a way of coming to light.

I consider belief as being on a scale of 0% to 100% confident.

So, you CAN and DO 'BELIEVE' some 'things' are true, which you are NOT even 1% confident are true, right?

I believe any level of confidence whatsoever, so long as it is the most confident belief of any competing alternatives being evaluated, has utility.

What does, 'I believe any level of confidence whatsoever', even mean or is ever referring to, EXACTLY?

If I thought life was ultimately just one kind of random chance or another, then I suppose it would all be about luck and I'd possibly want to worship a 4-leaf clover I found in a park.

you possibly MIGHT and you possibly MIGHT NOT.

So if I am a seeker, go on a life journey, and ten years later the best I come up with is life is about random chance with a 1% certainty, but I have no other ideas of any certainty whatsoever, then I think that its not a bad idea to focus on luck as means of self-improvement.

Okay, but you have gone SO FAR OFF TRACK here that I am NOT sure HOW to bring you BACK.

Supposedly there are atheists out there who seek God and that is the kind of journey they imply they believe are ending on. Though I do find that difficult to believe, I won't question their own experience such as calling them liars.

Okay. But WHY are there supposedly, to you, so-called "atheists" SEEKING God?

To me 'this' doing so would be VERY HYPOCRITICAL to say the least.

But yet I'd agree with this hypothetical scenario of worshiping a 4-leaf clover isn't a very good idea. I'd say instead that its a 1% good idea. As the person becomes more than halfway to maximum confidence, it a good idea. I'd say that at 100% confidence it becomes a very good idea for them to try.

And what would be the PURPOSE of 'worshiping' ANY 'leafed clover' ANYWAY?

[Dontaskme]

Worshipping God happens. And, there is nothing making this happen, nor can this happening, unhappen this.

[bahman]

Look at the world around you--heat waves, droughts, wildfires, nature dying, poverty, war, and unrest. All we've ever done as human beings was to try to enjoy life in this world in the best way we could or knew how. We ought not to blame each other for the results of doing what we all thought was best. God created an absurd world.

God doesn't deserve worship.

All the things you mentioned are our fault. We lack wisdom and that can be obtained when we realize our mistakes. God created a perfect universe.

[alan1000]

Who even said or says, God deserves worship?

Ummm, you HAVE heard of Christianity, haven't you?

[Gary Childress]

Who even said or says, God deserves worship?

Ummm, you HAVE heard of Christianity, haven't you?

Yes, I have heard of Christianity. What about Christianity? Is it the one true set of words concerning God?