Distributing Hate

[Harbal]

You only post on this site to spread your political views. There must be more appropriate forums for that sort of thing.

However, this is the Politics thread.

But not the come-and-spout-your-conservative-propaganda thread. This might be a place for discussing politics, but not one for promoting political (or religious) views. Especially with the level of dishonesty that has become alarmingly prevelant online these days.

[Iwannaplato]

Are women happier now, post-feminism? Are blacks happier now, post-civil rights?

Probably. But beyond that I'd like to point out that your criterion is happiness. Rather than say, sense of dignity, ability to express more parts of themselves, sense of being allowed to be themselves. and probably other criteria. Freedom to do a wider ranges of things, express more of one's personality can come at a cost for happiness. Choice is stressful, responsibility can lead to guilt, shame, self-judgment. But most people won't give these up to be safe and cozy, though some will.

But is that the way we should evaluate a society, by happiness?

The Scandanavian countries, for example, rate very high on happiness quoitents. And they are also very high on feminism, civil rights, anti-discrimination and so on.

Are jobs and incomes more prosperous?

These were going up for a long time, then since the 80s they have been going down. Corporates concentrated power, and as the first globalists moved many jobs out of their countries. There has also been a tremendous shift by corporate america and finance america in making money out without producting anything. All the people who, like many finance people, make money out of mathematical games with money and stocks. This doesn't add one tiny product or service to the world. They are skimming parasites, like tapeworms in you gut, in our guts. There is less money, then, to go around. There are other factors leadning to this trend.

[Harbal]

Are women happier now, post-feminism? Are blacks happier now, post-civil rights?

Probably.

In fact — if such “studies” can be trusted, women are said to be generally far less ‘happy’ in our present compared to decades back. But the same studies also indicate that in general people (in our culture) are often not very happy. There is lots of data about angst, lack of solid friendship, loneliness, general insatisfaction.

I cannot imagine that Blacks would say that the Civil Right Movement is a cause of unhappiness however. But the issue of racial identity in a predominantly White culture is particularly knotty.

Of course it's notty, we all have a tendency to favour our own kind. You can't legislate personal prejudice out of existance, but the state and the law should treat all with scrupulous fairness. If we have to live together, it's better that we do it without being at each other's throats.

[Alexis Jacobi]

You only post on this site to spread your political views. There must be more appropriate forums for that sort of thing.

However, this is the Politics thread.

But not the come-and-spout-your-conservative-propaganda thread. This might be a place for discussing politics, but not one for promoting political (or religious) views. Especially with the level of dishonesty that has become alarmingly prevelant online these days.

I understand what you are saying and I think why.

I counter by pointing out that we are thoroughly drenched, soaked and steeped in what you call “propaganda” of a hyper-liberal sort. I would not call it propaganda so much as ideology made to seem “righteous” and “good”. It is very coercive though but it can be disassembled.

I understand Wizard to be inclined in that direction. I do not have to agree with all of it. But I validate it. The need and right and value of proposing counter-currents.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Of course it's notty, we all have a tendency to favour our own kind. You can't legislate personal prejudice out of existance, but the state and the law should treat all with scrupulous fairness. If we have to live together, it's better that we do it without being at each other's throats.

This is a good example of a stance, determined by ideology, is presented as “right & proper”. It is not necessarily true (or ‘good’) though.

But you have taken it as such. Hence the ideologically coercive nature (of your position) can be seen and examined. There is no alternative to your assertion.

[Harbal]

Of course it's notty, we all have a tendency to favour our own kind. You can't legislate personal prejudice out of existance, but the state and the law should treat all with scrupulous fairness. If we have to live together, it's better that we do it without being at each other's throats.

This is a good example of a stance, determined by ideology, is presented as “right & proper”. It is not necessarily true (or ‘good’) though.

I hope I behave towards others in a way that is "right and proper", except when I'm here of course. I do that because that is the kind of person I want to be, but I'm not telling anyone else they should want to be like that. The less black people, or any other minority, feel they have to complain about, the better it would be for everyone. I don't say that out of any ideology, but merely out of common sense; racial tension is dangerous. I don't see many black people where I live, but if I should ever find myself heading towards a bunch of them, I would rather not get a good kicking for being white. I imagine many, if not most, black people feel the same. There are extremists on both sides who do not want harmony, and their trouble making activities geared towards creating racial conflict is the biggest contributing facter to the problem, in my opinion.

But you have taken it as such. Hence the ideologically coercive nature (of your position) can be seen and examined. There is no alternative to your assertion.

You are making assumptions about my "position" that are inaccurate. I don't know whether this habit you have of stereotyping everybody comes from naivety, or out of a desire to provoke, but I think I can make a good guess.

[Alexis Jacobi]

I hope I behave towards others in a way that is "right and proper", except when I'm here of course. I do that because that is the kind of person I want to be, but I'm not telling anyone else they should want to be like that. The less black people, or any other minority, feel they have to complain about, the better it would be for everyone. I don't say that out of any ideology, but merely out of common sense; racial tension is dangerous. I don't see many black people where I live, but if I should ever find myself heading towards a bunch of them, I would rather not get a good kicking for being white. I imagine many, if not most, black people feel the same. There are extremists on both sides who do not want harmony, and their trouble making activities geared towards creating racial conflict is the biggest contributing factor to the problem, in my opinion.

Here you are talking about social kindness, good manners, etc. But I am pretty sure that Wizard is familiar with other issues and arguments that are far less personal and these are issues brought up and explored by the Dissident Right. I am familiar with those issues and have a certain respect for (some) of them. I am pretty sure that you are ignorant about them and likely uncaring.

The questions about what feminism's effects have been on society, on civilization, are complex issues and they can only be discussed carefully and slowly. However, present ideological compulsion has the effect of making any conversation *impossible*.

The issue of racial shifts, demographic shifts, is an issue that in Europe (and America) has increasing relevance and is being thought about and discussed. But how can it be either thought about or discussed if it is an *illegal topic*?

The ideology of the Progressive and Radical Left tends always to shut down conversations. Indeed to *cancel* people for positions against established positions.

You are making assumptions about my "position" that are inaccurate. I don't know whether this habit you have of stereotyping everybody comes from naivety, or out of a desire to provoke, but I think I can make a good guess.

I said: "This is a good example of a stance, determined by ideology, is presented as “right & proper”. It is not necessarily true (or ‘good’) though'.

I speak in wide generalisms for good reasons. It is because we have all become susceptible to ideological molding in the Postwar era. That this is so is something about which I am increasingly aware.

[Immanuel Can]

Hate.jpg (56.19 KiB) Viewed 1771 times

[Harbal]

Those who constantly criticise "the left", but never have a bad word to say about extreme right wing conservatism, can hardly be trusted to give anything but a grossly biased account of things; in fact, down right dishonesty has to be assumed from the beginning. So, so sad; so, so very, very sad.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Those who constantly criticise "the left", but never have a bad word to say about extreme right wing conservatism, can hardly be trusted to give anything but a grossly biased account of things; in fact, down right dishonesty has to be assumed from the beginning. So, so sad; so, so very, very sad.

That is one reason why you should not dismiss so readily some of the ideas Wizard has but forth. And myself as well.

Immanuel is simply a Christian and his only concern is in that area (whatever it actually is).

However, I think you would need to have a better grasp of what general Progressivism is, what radical Leftism is, what moderate (labor) leftism is, what Liberalism is, what the Conservative movement bases itself on, and then what Radical Right and Dissident Right exponents say that they want, and why.

Finally, you would need to actually study what Critical Theory actually is, where it originated, why it has originated, and to then decide if it is a *good thing* or something more nefarious. Myself, I regard it is extremely nefarious. And there are smart, concerned and balanced people who share that opinion.

On this forum, naturally, there is a ridiculous polarity. But mostly people bicker from idiosyncratic, personal positions. But in the *real world* there is a great variety of ideas and opinions.

You will also find that a great deal of Conservatives are in fact only mildly Conservative and really are more or less Liberal. They accept most of the tenets of standard Liberalism.

The ones that you actually have to worry about are those of the Dissident Right.

[Immanuel Can]

Those who constantly criticise "the left", ...

Well, "hate has no home" is a Leftist slogan today. They're quite proud of it. Since they put it out there, it's open season on the question of whether they follow up and refuse to hate anybody, or whether their much vaunted "inclusion" is really very "inclusive" at all.

When the right comes up with a slogan, I hope the Left will feel equally free to criticize it, and we'll all be equally interested in what that critique has to offer. But those who self-promote as tolerant have to be able to stand a little examination without wincing.

[Harbal]

Those who constantly criticise "the left", ...

Well, "hate has no home" is a Leftist slogan today. They're quite proud of it. Since they put it out there, it's open season on the question of whether they follow up and refuse to hate anybody, or whether their much vaunted "inclusion" is really very "inclusive" at all.

When the right comes up with a slogan, I hope the Left will feel equally free to criticize it, and we'll all be equally interested in what that critique has to offer. But those who self-promote as tolerant have to be able to stand a little examination without wincing.

This is what I mean; you just can't switch it off, can you? When it comes to God or politics, you are like a programmed machine; you have your message, and nothing will get in the way of it, least of all the truth. There is absolutely no nuance with you; evrything is clear cut. It isn't just you, there are loads like you on the internet, and one soon learns to spot the type a mile off.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Ouch! OUCH!

Immanuel: defend thyself!

[Immanuel Can]

This is what I mean; you just can't switch it off, can you? When it comes to God or politics, you are like a programmed machine...

Nope. Just like somebody who actually believes what he says he believes, and processes things though what he believes to be true. It might be a bit alien as a way of operating, if one is used to Atheists; but I assure you, it is possible to be consistent, and to live out the logic of what one claims is ultimately true.

[Harbal]

This is what I mean; you just can't switch it off, can you? When it comes to God or politics, you are like a programmed machine...

Nope. Just like somebody who actually believes what he says he believes, and processes things though what he believes to be true. It might be a bit alien as a way of operating, if one is used to Atheists; but I assure you, it is possible to be consistent, and to live out the logic of what one claims is ultimately true.

Okay, just carry on; you obviously don't care how it makes you look.