Does the "Free Will" point of view affect morals and character?

[Belinda]

Change itself is integral to existence in this world of time and relativity. This world of time and relativity is all we can know, as we ourselves are temporal and relative beings.

The baby does not breathe because he chooses to do so but because he must; he is immersed in change.
Biology presumes change ; that's to say biology presumes the dynamic of determinism as process in time.
An adult human can choose whether or not to eat or drink (voluntary activities) because the adult human can choose to stop his life.

I wasn't looking at choice, but more the dichotomy active/reactive. I dont' think it makes sense to look at us as merely reactive. I think it's a clever use of the term. But I think we, along with everything else in the universe, are both active and reactive. Affecting and affected. We have our motions and changes and other things have their motions and changes. Theirs affect us, ours affect theirs. The whole thing is flowing forward in time, changing.

I was only saying I don't like the word 'reactive' in the context of causes and effects of human behaviour. Because of its psychological usage the word 'reactive' deprecates as lacking due reflection. I'd have preferred 'active'/'passive' which would do the same work .

[popeye1945]

Change itself is integral to existence in this world of time and relativity. This world of time and relativity is all we can know, as we ourselves are temporal and relative beings.

The baby does not breathe because he chooses to do so but because he must; he is immersed in change.
Biology presumes change ; that's to say biology presumes the dynamic of determinism as process in time.
An adult human can choose whether or not to eat or drink (voluntary activities) because the adult human can choose to stop his life.

I wasn't looking at choice, but more the dichotomy active/reactive. I dont' think it makes sense to look at us as merely reactive. I think it's a clever use of the term. But I think we, along with everything else in the universe, are both active and reactive. Affecting and affected. We have our motions and changes and other things have their motions and changes. Theirs affect us, ours affect theirs. The whole thing is flowing forward in time, changing.

I was only saying I don't like the word 'reactive' in the context of causes and effects of human behaviour. Because of its psychological usage the word 'reactive' deprecates as lacking due reflection. I'd have preferred 'active'/'passive' which would do the same work .

If organisms, or just humans, are active, what does that look like? We know from the logic of being in the world that one cannot, not react to one's environment, for even a considered non-response is a reaction to one's environment. So, I ask you both once again, for an example of a human action that is not motivated by the outside world. This does not deny discernment of choice, but it is the discernment of choice between reactions, it can be no other way. Again, give me a clear example of a human action.

[Toppsy Kretts]

i would have to agree yes it does,

ones "free will" actions is determined by the contents of their home, their bring up, their information they contain all correlate from the subjects environment. The teachings of what they realized growing up were "right" and "Wrong". Within these teachings one can pursue the overall judgement to negotiate a correct response within life, from managing and complicated actions requiring tremendous skills sets of analyzation and personal confrontation to determined if he or she has correct morals and values to complete the set of tasks presented before them.

Free will over all must be understood as power over anything. Dominion over all. this "power" can be stripped away if overused and or abused in a harmful sort of way, either to the degree where the power of the "right: can over throw you or to were you are so powerful that nobody can touch you.
as World Leaders such as Hitler, or unknown company power houses.

Free will with this sense of power must be considered humbling and almost worthy of having and being bestowed upon by God and country.

For this is the way of man, and must be nurtured and understood.

[popeye1945]

i would have to agree yes it does,

ones "free will" actions is determined by the contents of their home, their bring up, their information they contain all correlate from the subjects environment. The teachings of what they realized growing up were "right" and "Wrong". Within these teachings one can pursue the overall judgement to negotiate a correct response within life, from managing and complicated actions requiring tremendous skills sets of analyzation and personal confrontation to determine if he or she has correct morals and values to complete the set of tasks presented before them.

Free will over all must be understood as power over anything. Dominion over all. this "power" can be stripped away if overused and or abused in a harmful sort of way, either to the degree where the power of the "right: can over throw you or to were you are so powerful that nobody can touch you.
as World Leaders such as Hitler, or unknown company power houses.

Free will with this sense of power must be considered humbling and almost worthy of having and being bestowed upon by God and country.

For this is the way of man, and must be nurtured and understood.

The human psyche is formed through the historical and personal history of its generational heritage, like the ripples on the pond of the generations. You speak of home, upbringing personal history, the historical input is mind-blowing, and the individual like a word or a sentence is defined by its context and it is a context too complex for the mind to grasp. The fact the there is no free will is true despite the fact of the difficulties it would present to the sin of religion or the guilt of the legal system. Free will is just too simplistic to be true, and speaks of no understanding of the complexity of existence.

[Toppsy Kretts]

Free will is just too simplistic to be true, and speaks of no understanding of the complexity of existence.

I admire this sentence for your argument, so well put together. very organized.

Though God never presented life to be difficult. The plan from the beginning was simplistic and true. free of hardships and pain. Everything after to this point is from our own doing. We do have free will. But a God knows all and if it is known to happen without a doubt than one can value the plan of what is to come and how to act within it.

God as a plan for all of us, including you Mr.Popeye, But you free will is your actions you choose to take. Only God can see the predetermined and destiny within our lives. They're not for us to worry about.

[popeye1945]

Free will is just too simplistic to be true, and speaks of no understanding of the complexity of existence.

I admire this sentence for your argument, so well put together. very organized.

Though God never presented life to be difficult. The plan from the beginning was simplistic and true. free of hardships and pain. Everything after to this point is from our own doing. We do have free will. But a God knows all and if it is known to happen without a doubt than one can value the plan of what is to come and how to act within it.

God as a plan for all of us, including you Mr.Popeye, But you free will is your actions you choose to take. Only God can see the predetermined and destiny within our lives. They're not for us to worry about.

Put me on your ignore list------------please.

[Toppsy Kretts]

Put me on your ignore list------------please.

Why>>>???

[popeye1945]

Put me on your ignore list------------please.

Why>>>???

You're preaching and its nonsense.

[Toppsy Kretts]

You're preaching and its nonsense.

non·sense
noun
1.
spoken or written words that have no meaning or make no sense.

my words have meaning to many, especially those who have trouble understanding the world. My words bring contempt to those who cannot find it themselves.

Friend you call my words nonsense, I call you lonely. I think you need someone like me in your life. One day you will understand my words of meaning and see them true. I wish would be there to see the excitement on your face.

[popeye1945]

You're preaching and its nonsense.

non·sense
noun
1.
spoken or written words that have no meaning or make no sense.

my words have meaning to many, especially those who have trouble understanding the world. My words bring contempt to those who cannot find it themselves.

Friend you call my words nonsense, I call you lonely. I think you need someone like me in your life. One day you will understand my words of meaning and see them true. I wish would be there to see the excitement on your face.

You sound highly pretentious with a very large ego--- put me on your ignore list, please.

[Toppsy Kretts]

You sound highly pretentious with a very large ego--- put me on your ignore list, please.

I have little to no ego, you can simply not respond.

You sound **** the one with a juristically oversized egocentric personality and can be validated by the way you try to assert an action upon me to do something to not acknowledge you , and then act as if I am in the wrong to speak my thoughts.

You dare expect me to do more actions to where I cant see your posts when I reply and comment on anything NOT according to you JUST SO- you can respond and say whatever harmful blaspheming words you want?

You friend have me "Twisted like sum lug nuts".

We'd like for you to leave

[popeye1945]

You sound highly pretentious with a very large ego--- put me on your ignore list, please.

I have little to no ego, you can simply not respond.

You sound **** the one with a juristically oversized egocentric personality and can be validated by the way you try to assert an action upon me to do something to not acknowledge you , and then act as if I am in the wrong to speak my thoughts.

You dare expect me to do more actions to where I cant see your posts when I reply and comment on anything NOT according to you JUST SO- you can respond and say whatever harmful blaspheming words you want?

You friend have me "Twisted like sum lug nuts".

We'd like for you to leave

OK, I cannot respond, now put me on your list.

[Toppsy Kretts]

now put me on your list.

I Dont think i will friend