humor and being ''WOKE''

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Immanuel Can
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Re: humor and being ''WOKE''

Post by Immanuel Can »

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:06 pm ..... and others were "falsely" charged with that, right?
Watch the video. Least coup-like "coup" the world has ever seen.

That the Dems wanted to make a big deal of it doesn't change the video.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: humor and being ''WOKE''

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Harbal wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:32 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:59 pm
Harbal wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:50 pm I really do find this constant jabbing at "the Left" by certain people really irritating. And it isn't because I am one of the Left, it is because it is both insulting to the intelligence and dishonest.
If you say so.

Then let's call them what they are: radical Cultural Marxists. We can leave "left" and "right" totally out of it.
Yes, use the term "radical Cultural Marxists" instead of "the Left", so that those who are simply left leaning don't make the mistake of thinking you are referring to them, and only the radical Cultural Marxists need protest at your comments.
Here's what is curious to me. Why would we be offended when people say "the Left," if there's no such thing as "the Left"? :shock:

For then, there's no "Left" to be insulted by being called "Left." So why would we not call the Cultural Marxists "the Left," since they certainly are on the political left today, and dominate it almost completely?

Are you simply defending something like trade unionists? The soft socialists, maybe? Because I can certainly see good reason to do that; the Neo-Marxists are going to eat them alive, if they can.
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Sculptor
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Re: humor and being ''WOKE''

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Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:58 pm
Harbal wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:32 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:59 pm
If you say so.

Then let's call them what they are: radical Cultural Marxists. We can leave "left" and "right" totally out of it.
Yes, use the term "radical Cultural Marxists" instead of "the Left", so that those who are simply left leaning don't make the mistake of thinking you are referring to them, and only the radical Cultural Marxists need protest at your comments.
Here's what is curious to me. Why would we be offended when people say "the Left," if there's no such thing as "the Left"? :shock:

For then, there's no "Left" to be insulted by being called "Left." So why would we not call the Cultural Marxists "the Left," since they certainly are on the political left today, and dominate it almost completely?

Are you simply defending something like trade unionists? The soft socialists, maybe? Because I can certainly see good reason to do that; the Neo-Marxists are going to eat them alive, if they can.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WWV29M_f6o
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Harbal
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Re: humor and being ''WOKE''

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Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:58 pm
Harbal wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:32 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:59 pm
If you say so.

Then let's call them what they are: radical Cultural Marxists. We can leave "left" and "right" totally out of it.
Yes, use the term "radical Cultural Marxists" instead of "the Left", so that those who are simply left leaning don't make the mistake of thinking you are referring to them, and only the radical Cultural Marxists need protest at your comments.
Here's what is curious to me. Why would we be offended when people say "the Left," if there's no such thing as "the Left"? :shock:

For then, there's no "Left" to be insulted by being called "Left." So why would we not call the Cultural Marxists "the Left," since they certainly are on the political left today, and dominate it almost completely?

Are you simply defending something like trade unionists?
What I am trying to defend is truth. Lying about your political opponents has reached obscene levels in these latter years, and even moreso since that shameless sociopath, Trump, finally opened the flood gates. Whether the dishonesty is at a rally in front of thousands, or on a small forum in front of a handful, makes no difference to the principle, and I despise dishonesty.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: humor and being ''WOKE''

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Harbal wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:09 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:58 pm
Harbal wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:32 pm

Yes, use the term "radical Cultural Marxists" instead of "the Left", so that those who are simply left leaning don't make the mistake of thinking you are referring to them, and only the radical Cultural Marxists need protest at your comments.
Here's what is curious to me. Why would we be offended when people say "the Left," if there's no such thing as "the Left"? :shock:

For then, there's no "Left" to be insulted by being called "Left." So why would we not call the Cultural Marxists "the Left," since they certainly are on the political left today, and dominate it almost completely?

Are you simply defending something like trade unionists?
What I am trying to defend is truth.
Well, one cannot "lie" about an entity that does not exist.

If there's no such thing as "the Left," one cannot falsify anything concerning them. So whom do you mean, when you say "Left"?
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Re: humor and being ''WOKE''

Post by Harbal »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:27 pm
Harbal wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:09 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:58 pm
Here's what is curious to me. Why would we be offended when people say "the Left," if there's no such thing as "the Left"? :shock:

For then, there's no "Left" to be insulted by being called "Left." So why would we not call the Cultural Marxists "the Left," since they certainly are on the political left today, and dominate it almost completely?

Are you simply defending something like trade unionists?
What I am trying to defend is truth.
Well, one cannot "lie" about an entity that does not exist.
Doesn't claiming the existence of something that doesn't exist ammount to a lie? There is an arbitrary line in politics that we use as a divide between left and right, so I am not denying that there is a so called left and right, but the left is a spectrum, as is the right. You have selectively taken an unfavourable element within the left and are trying to present it as typical, which is dishonest of you.
If there's no such thing as "the Left," one cannot falsify anything concerning them. So whom do you mean, when you say "Left"?
When I say "the Left" I am quoting you, and referring to your evocation of an imaginary entity.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: humor and being ''WOKE''

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Harbal wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:14 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:27 pm
Harbal wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:09 pm
What I am trying to defend is truth.
Well, one cannot "lie" about an entity that does not exist.
Doesn't claiming the existence of something that doesn't exist ammount to a lie?
Well, I think the Left exists, so it's not a lie for me. You might suppose it's an error and say so; but it's certainly not a lie.

But if somebody says there's no such thing as the Left, he's undercut his own argument if he turns around and says, "Stop misrepresenting the Left." For him, there's no such thing -- he thinks. So nobody can misrepresent it. Nobody can rightly represent it, either, of course. It has no identity that a statement could possibly violate.

So if you think people can "tell lies" about it, you must know what the Left is. I just want to get on the same page with you about that.

...the left is a spectrum...[/quote]
Ah. So you do believe there's such a thing as the left?

Well, a spectrum always runs from some point to some other. So I'm happy if you describe it as the interval between two extremes, so long as you say what those extremes are, so that I have some idea what you mean when you say, "the left...spectrum."

What are they?
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Re: humor and being ''WOKE''

Post by Harbal »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:30 pm
Harbal wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:14 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:27 pm
Well, one cannot "lie" about an entity that does not exist.
Doesn't claiming the existence of something that doesn't exist ammount to a lie?
Well, I think the Left exists, so it's not a lie for me. You might suppose it's an error and say so; but it's certainly not a lie.

But if somebody says there's no such thing as the Left, he's undercut his own argument if he turns around and says, "Stop misrepresenting the Left." For him, there's no such thing -- he thinks. So nobody can misrepresent it. Nobody can rightly represent it, either, of course. It has no identity that a statement could possibly violate.

So if you think people can "tell lies" about it, you must know what the Left is. I just want to get on the same page with you about that.

...the left is a spectrum...
Ah. So you do believe there's such a thing as the left?

Well, a spectrum always runs from some point to some other. So I'm happy if you describe it as the interval between two extremes, so long as you say what those extremes are, so that I have some idea what you mean when you say, "the left...spectrum."

What are they?
I don't think I have anything to add to what I've already said. I'm sure you, and anyone else who has followed our conversation, will have got the point I am making, even if you, or they, don't agree with it.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: humor and being ''WOKE''

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Harbal wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:55 pm I don't think I have anything to add to what I've already said.
Well, you said there's such a thing as the Left, and that you're offended if people "lie about" them...but then you said they're a "spectrum," and then that you were only using my language, not your own -- so presumably you both believe there's a Left, don't believe there's a Left, and think they're a spectrum.

Is that about the sum of it?
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Re: humor and being ''WOKE''

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:01 pm The longer and totally censored Humour of Ricky Gervais, because as we all know "You can't say that anymore".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH4jaJzmrWU
This is ancient history by today's standards. A LOT has changed since then. You really need to get out of your ivory tower a bit more.
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Harbal
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Re: humor and being ''WOKE''

Post by Harbal »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 11:55 pm
Harbal wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:55 pm I don't think I have anything to add to what I've already said.
Well, you said there's such a thing as the Left, and that you're offended if people "lie about" them..
I'm not offended, I am concerned. And I am equally concerned whichever side of the political spectrum the lies are aimed at. Are you okay with elections being won and lost on who can tell the most convincing lies?
but then you said they're a "spectrum," and then that you were only using my language, not your own -- so presumably you both believe there's a Left, don't believe there's a Left, and think they're a spectrum.
And that's your honest assessment of what I said, is it?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: humor and being ''WOKE''

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Harbal wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:17 am Are you okay with elections being won and lost on who can tell the most convincing lies?
I can't even imagine what suggests that hypothesis to you.
but then you said they're a "spectrum," and then that you were only using my language, not your own -- so presumably you both believe there's a Left, don't believe there's a Left, and think they're a spectrum.
And that's your honest assessment of what I said, is it?
Very much, it is. Why wouldn't it be?

After all, you've said all three things: that there's a Left you're thinking we can "lie" about, that it's not one thing but a "spectrum," and that the only reason you mention the Left at all is because you were adopting my language, not your own. You've certainly said all three.

I just don't know which one you actually believe, because they contradict each other. But I'm certainly willing to hear it if you think there's some single theory that reconciles those claims.
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Re: humor and being ''WOKE''

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Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:40 am
Harbal wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:17 am Are you okay with elections being won and lost on who can tell the most convincing lies?
I can't even imagine what suggests that hypothesis to you.
Yes you can.
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:40 am
Harbal wrote: And that's your honest assessment of what I said, is it?
Very much, it is.
No it isn't.
After all, you've said all three things: that there's a Left you're thinking we can "lie" about, that it's not one thing but a "spectrum," and that the only reason you mention the Left at all is because you were adopting my language, not your own. You've certainly said all three.
I can't even imagine how you've arrived at that assessment. :shock:
I just don't know which one you actually believe, because they contradict each other. But I'm certainly willing to hear it if you think there's some single theory that reconciles those claims.
I have absolutely no idea where you are coming from with this, IC, it's almost as if you are deliberately misrepresenting me. :o
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Re: humor and being ''WOKE''

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Why do Republicans continue to support Trump? Because they really believe in taking a baby to full term.


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Immanuel Can
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Re: humor and being ''WOKE''

Post by Immanuel Can »

Harbal wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 6:15 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:40 am
Harbal wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:17 am Are you okay with elections being won and lost on who can tell the most convincing lies?
I can't even imagine what suggests that hypothesis to you.
Yes you can.
You've got me wrong. Nobody's okay with that. It's incomprehensible that anybody would be. So I have to think your question's rhetorical; but I can't imagine what line of thinking would prompt it in the first place.
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:40 am
Harbal wrote: And that's your honest assessment of what I said, is it?
Very much, it is.

After all, you've said all three things: that there's a Left you're thinking we can "lie" about, that it's not one thing but a "spectrum," and that the only reason you mention the Left at all is because you were adopting my language, not your own. You've certainly said all three.
I can't even imagine how you've arrived at that assessment. :shock:
Look back at our last few exchanges: you'll find all three...but maybe you misspoke? I'm fine if you want to revise.

So let me ask again, more simply: for you, who is "the Left"? Do they exist or not? If they do, what characteristic(s), in your view, puts somebody among "the Left"?
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