Hume: Moral Fact is in Human Nature

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8483
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Hume: Moral Fact is in Human Nature

Post by Sculptor »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 6:00 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 11:50 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 4:26 am
You won't get me this time!
You are definitely not well versed with Hume.
You are merely blabbering without substance.

I have dug deep into Hume;

In addition to the OP, I quoted this from Hume;



From the above and the OP, Hume referred to moral sentiments as common, comprehensive and universal to all mankind.
If that is the case, these moral sentiments must be reducible to the DNA, genes, human brain and body, if not where else. In this sense, these moral sentiments are grounded on moral facts within the human brain and body.

Hey! read the contents I quoted from Hume slowly and try to understand them.
You must think me a fucking idiot. You can't read your own provided quote.
Did you deliberately ignore ", or most men,"? Maybe you thought I would not notice?
No matter. Elsewhere he is far more circumspect where he focuses down on the idea.
Hume agrees with me and all others here that laugh at your posts, the same thing. Humans definitely have an innate propensity to moral behaviour. We have all said that from time to time. And quoting HUme "agree or disagree with that rule of right which is established".

Yes, most men do in fact agree with the moral rules that their particular society has established. WTF do you think established means anyway?

None of this amounts to objective moral rules, but rules where their cultures' and societies' establishments have codified them.

So yes in societies where it is established that Jews and other races are subhuman, such people deserve different treatment.
And then people like you come along and declare such established views as objective and right.
Just as Hume himself regarded women and other races as lesser than white, especially white British and Scottish folk as at the top of the pile.
In this particular case, you think you are so smart, but your counter merely show you are stupid.
When you start responding to people's posts, is the moment I will read your responses.
Until then. Meh! Take ti up with someone who thinks you warrant the effort.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12247
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Hume: Moral Fact is in Human Nature

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Sculptor wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 2:41 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 6:00 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 11:50 am
You must think me a fucking idiot. You can't read your own provided quote.
Did you deliberately ignore ", or most men,"? Maybe you thought I would not notice?
No matter. Elsewhere he is far more circumspect where he focuses down on the idea.
Hume agrees with me and all others here that laugh at your posts, the same thing. Humans definitely have an innate propensity to moral behaviour. We have all said that from time to time. And quoting HUme "agree or disagree with that rule of right which is established".

Yes, most men do in fact agree with the moral rules that their particular society has established. WTF do you think established means anyway?

None of this amounts to objective moral rules, but rules where their cultures' and societies' establishments have codified them.

So yes in societies where it is established that Jews and other races are subhuman, such people deserve different treatment.
And then people like you come along and declare such established views as objective and right.
Just as Hume himself regarded women and other races as lesser than white, especially white British and Scottish folk as at the top of the pile.
In this particular case, you think you are so smart, but your counter merely show you are stupid.
When you start responding to people's posts, is the moment I will read your responses.
Until then. Meh! Take ti up with someone who thinks you warrant the effort.
As usual running away with your tails between the legs.

I have provided the counter to your argument.
Counter my argument line by line to show where I am wrong.
This is a very rational call.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8483
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Hume: Moral Fact is in Human Nature

Post by Sculptor »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 2:41 am
Sculptor wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 2:41 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 6:00 am
In this particular case, you think you are so smart, but your counter merely show you are stupid.
When you start responding to people's posts, is the moment I will read your responses.
Until then. Meh! Take ti up with someone who thinks you warrant the effort.
As usual running away with your tails between the legs.

I have provided the counter to your argument.
Counter my argument line by line to show where I am wrong.
This is a very rational call.
You have never offered anything of value.
I do not have a tail. And I'd rather not have to watch you wave your dick about.
Your (ahem!) "arguments" are too soft to be impressive.
They are boring, repetitive, and no one on the Forum seems to be impressed. The reason for that is that you do not understand the most basic objections to your fantasy world.
Most of the posters have at some time taken your repetitive bullshit line by line. You have proven yourself blind to what they have said to you.
I'm not doing that all again for you to ignore what I and others have said to you.
So take your imaginary FSK and shove it up your raggedy arse.
popeye1945
Posts: 2119
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: Hume: Moral Fact is in Human Nature

Post by popeye1945 »

Identification with other selves and compassion arises, and compassion is the seed of morality, and is not particular to the human animal.

I SECOND THE ABOVE MOTION, YOUR STUCK IN A PAINFUL RUT, AND YOU DO NOT HEAR OTHERS.
Iwannaplato
Posts: 6592
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: Hume: Moral Fact is in Human Nature

Post by Iwannaplato »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:40 am
Hume in Treatise of Human Nature wrote:
Take any action allow'd to be vicious: Willful murder, for instance.

Examine it in all lights, and see if you can find that matter of fact, or real existence, which you call vice.

In whichever way you take it, you find only certain passions, motives, volitions and thoughts.

There is no other matter of fact in the case.
The vice entirely escapes you, as long as you consider the object.

You can never find it, till you turn your reflexion into your own breast, and find a sentiment of disapprobation, which arises in you, towards this action.

Here is a matter of fact; but ’tis the object of feeling, not of reason.

It lies in yourself, not in the object. 1

Treatise of Human Nature, Bk III. Pt1. s1, p. 469
Views?
Hume is arguing the opposite of your position. He's saying that when we judge something a vicious act, it has nothing to do with the act, but rather lies in our, for example, passions. Perhaps somewhere he argues for moral facts, but here he's arguing against them.
Skepdick
Posts: 14347
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Hume: Moral Fact is in Human Nature

Post by Skepdick »

Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 12:52 pm Hume is arguing the opposite of your position. He's saying that when we judge something a vicious act, it has nothing to do with the act, but rather lies in our, for example, passions. Perhaps somewhere he argues for moral facts, but here he's arguing against them.
All of this nonsense of "opposites" disappears through the lens of systems theory.

When I look at the interaction between myself and the world as a whole I do find whatever I find. Be they passions, motives, volitions and thoughts.

They may be emergent but they are factual and result from the interaction.
It lies in yourself, not in the object.
Where it is doesn't matter if it emerges from the interaction between myself and the object.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12247
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Hume: Moral Fact is in Human Nature

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Skepdick wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 1:17 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 12:52 pm Hume is arguing the opposite of your position. He's saying that when we judge something a vicious act, it has nothing to do with the act, but rather lies in our, for example, passions. Perhaps somewhere he argues for moral facts, but here he's arguing against them.
All of this nonsense of "opposites" disappears through the lens of systems theory.

When I look at the interaction between myself and the world as a whole I do find whatever I find. Be they passions, motives, volitions and thoughts.

They may be emergent but they are factual and result from the interaction.
Agree.
It lies in yourself, not in the object.
Where it is doesn't matter if it emerges from the interaction between myself and the object.
"It lies in yourself, not in the object." is stated by Hume.

Hume was countering those [theists in particular] who believe that moral facts exist independent to the human conditions like external objects and Plato's real Ideas out there.

Hume asserted, nope! "It lies in yourself, not in the object."
Because it lies in yourself, i.e. as sentiments [sympathy], feelings, they cannot be objective moral facts.

But I argue, these moral sentiments are supported by physical neural correlates and algorithms in the brain verifiable by the scientific FSK; when inputted within a moral FSK, they emerged as objective moral facts, thus morality is objective.

Hume claimed morality is grounded on sympathy [empathy].
There is now a clue that empathy is related to physical mirror neurons in the brain.
This clue lead us to the inference that mirror neurons contribute as one element of an neural algorithm [involving other parts of the brain] that contribute to empathy - an element of morality.
Because mirror-neurons are factual, it leads to .. there are objective moral facts within a human-based moral FSK [model].
Iwannaplato
Posts: 6592
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: Hume: Moral Fact is in Human Nature

Post by Iwannaplato »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:42 am Hume asserted, nope! "It lies in yourself, not in the object."
Because it lies in yourself, i.e. as sentiments [sympathy], feelings, they cannot be objective moral facts.

But I argue, these moral sentiments are supported [elided}
Yes, we are familiar with your argument. And that's peachy. But it wasn't Hume's argument. So, the appeal to authority is very weak, even for one of those.
Skepdick
Posts: 14347
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Hume: Moral Fact is in Human Nature

Post by Skepdick »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 4:21 am Yes, we are familiar with your argument. And that's peachy. But it wasn't Hume's argument. So, the appeal to authority is very weak, even for one of those.
You think Hume is an authority? Heh.
Post Reply