Christianity

[Gary Childress]

…..

Truth is supposedly important in the sciences. The scientific method is supposed to help us arrive at the truth of everything that is. It begs the question of whether truth is something that would benefit us or else destroy us. Philosophy is a little different from the sciences in that it puts wisdom at the top of the order of priority. I mean, what if science eventually proves that a human genius would be able to create a universe identical to ours--perhaps using a laboratory or perhaps using some sort of holographic virtual reality machine? Is that a truth worth discovering? I don't know. So, if push were to come to shove, which is more important, truth or wisdom?

[attofishpi]

What Christianity is, again when examined (and this is so for all religious conceptions) is an 'imposition' on and against nature, and by that I mean 'reality'. There is no 'Christian ethic' in nature. Nor will there ever be such an ethic. If a creature did act, or could act, in accord with such (human, imposed) ethics that creature would be consumed.

It could be that per a human account of reality, that if everyone were indeed to act as instructed by Christ, to actually be Christians that there is in fact enough resources to share and we could actually have HEAVEN on Earth!

On a rather confronting point, does not God's display of sacrifice of Christ also resonate in some way, something deeply dark about the nature of God, the nature of nature, the other side to that nature of reality...something ominous pending in the midst of accountability?

I agree that Christ was compassionate. The only caveat is that he (inadvertently) crushed the skulls of numerous money-changers when he went on that famous rampage. This did not get reported in the Gospel. One of the men -- a shark I admit, a real dirty dealer -- was reduced to the level of mental retardation when Jesus whacked his avaricious head with that hardwood stick! It literally bashed in his skull. He become a drooling retard and his mother had to feed him gruel and change his soiled clothing for the rest of his life.

Where on Earth did you get that from!!?

[reasonvemotion]

Alexis Jacobi wrote:

What Christianity is, again when examined (and this is so for all religious conceptions) is an 'imposition' on and against nature, and by that I mean 'reality'. There is no 'Christian ethic' in nature. Nor will there ever be such an ethic. If a creature did act, or could act, in accord with such (human, imposed) ethics that creature would be consumed.

Recently I have been reading David Attenborough's The Life of Birds. I have some background in natural history and ecology but up till now had not read detailed accounts of bird's survival strategies, mating and roosting habits, etc. What is mind-boggling is to consider the intense struggles in the lives of biological entities in this world. The struggle of life is so strange, so brutal, that to really understand life here is a sobering undertaking

.


"Right from the get-go in Genesis 1:26-28 we, bearing the very likeness of God, were instructed to have dominion over all the creatures that roam around us on earth and sea.

If we take our lead on dominion and sovereignty from God, it’s not about overbearingness and destruction, but service, elevation of purpose and love. Observing the handiwork of a Creator who makes flowers bloom with glorious colour in highlands no human eye will ever see, or fish that exist so deep within the ocean it’s unlikely we’ll ever discover them, to give attention to something other than ourselves with any kind of gusto seems absolutely reasonable.

“To continue [as a human race] we require more than intelligence, we require wisdom,” Sir David said.

That right there, is where the Bible offers us hope. It says in James 1:5, “If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you”.

Some may see many ‘faults’ in our past approaches to the environment, but the good news is they don’t disqualify us from asking God for wisdom on what to do next."

David Attenborough

[Alexis Jacobi]

I know nothing about Attenborough. It was by chance I was introduced to his work and read one superlatively worthy book.

Obviously, he is brilliant in the precise degree that he agrees with me . . .

God bless David Attenborough!

I have no reason to oppose extending that blessing to Tiny Time and to one and all. Then, I’ll bake Tiny Tim and we’ll feast!

The turkey goes free — for now.

Life here

[Alexis Jacobi]

Truth is supposedly important in the sciences.

If I may opine and to some degree to the contrary, I would say that the object of science (as we know it) is not *truth* but rather *accurate description*. So, if Lucretius in De Rerum Natura tried to come up with a description of how it is that we see things -- he thought that the thing seen emitted something from itself, a ghost-like or ephemeral substance that made its way to our eye -- but we know now that that is not the case and we describe it better (light and luminescence is reflected off the object, the light strikes the retina, and these impulses are translated to our brain and we 'see') it is not so much a question of truth (or Truth) but rather the best description we can come up with.

The 'scientific description' of the world, as we all know, has supplanted metaphysical views, and these latter are often described now as vast hallucinations and the work of the imagination run wild. The 'science view' however, even though it explains phenomena, really does not explain much of anything. In fact it does away with explanation. It reduces Explanation to mere explanation.

Perhaps the confusion arises in and depends on what you mean by truth? This is why I introduced the clip of James Dean in Rebel Without a Cause. First, you say that Jesus is the most compassionate being that ever walked the Earth. Then, you are contradicted and you flip-flop to the opposite. "You're tearing me apart! You, you say one thing, and he says another, and then everybody changes back again!"

So as you might guess what I notice, about you, is your profound existential confusion. Immanuel, that tricky apologist, made every effort to rope you in. To get you to *bend a knee* and spill your heart before Jesus and through that act gain Heaven -- which is to say *escape* from this terrible and terrifying world. What that world has done to you!

You perceive the quagmire of planetary life. You may not grasp it at a biological/mechanical level and in a Nietzschean sense, and your perception seems to be (essentially) that you feel short-changed by it. You are trapped in sulkiness and not without ostensibly good reasons. You play a melancholic tune on a violin of self-pity and indeed draw a pitying audience. You are pitied and that quantity of pity is like a remedial poison. If one says "Snap out of it!" you snap back "Why are you beating up on a poor defenseless mentally ill person!"

But you do say that this is a philosophical forum and not a therapeutic way-station, and that is good news. Therefore this can be talked about in philosophical terms of a certain remove. I assume you are on board with this. It's rough though. We should decline to wallow in falseness and 'sentimental pettiness' --

My eyes collide head-on with stuffed
Graveyards, false gods, I scuff
At pettiness which plays so rough
Walk upside-down inside handcuffs
Kick my legs to crash it off
Say okay, I have had enough
what else can you show me?

But back to the question of the truth and what is true. If we take the science-view to its ultimate point every human truth is shown to be sentimental clap-trap, a series of lies which lead to self-deception. I believe it is as I say: We live in a world where life consumes life in an unending cycle. If this is true ("What else can you show me?") then there seems to be just one alternative: the tragic view. And an attitude that arises from out of a man who has accepted his fate.

How do we define and how do we speak about the *truths* that arise from that attitude, that perspective, that interpretive turn?

The scientific method is supposed to help us arrive at the truth of everything that is. It begs the question of whether truth is something that would benefit us or else destroy us.

If I amy I would say "Look to yourself". Truth (as I am now proposing the question and the issue) is destroying you. I base this on what you write and what I have read over these months. You are a man coming apart at the seams. You wallow in a puddle. You seek 'women' who will coddle you not men who will encourage you to become stronger. If you think I am being mean to you -- wrong! -- I am really speaking to our general and present state. The 'wallow in existential self-pity' is the common theme. And I would say, bending and twisting the words of that interesting and rigorous song, that this is the pettiness that plays rough. I know he meant petty social conventions but as I say I am deliberately bending meanings here to my own purposes.

The scientific method -- a way of cataloging processes -- leads us to the undermining of all former truth and certainly Truth. But to say that it can lead to "the truth of everything that is" you are talking from a place of ignorance. I mean that in a literal sense. You seem to have a smidgen of crossed-up understanding of American-style Evangelical Christianity but you entirely lack a comprehension of the function of religious metaphysics. It had been through religious metaphysics that Truth was defined. Truth in this sense is not a category of science.

Philosophy is a little different from the sciences in that it puts wisdom at the top of the order of priority.

The term 'wisdom' is one closely linked with religious truth. And if there is 'philosophical wisdom' it is, it seems to me, the jibber-jabber of those who talk philosophically about essentially religious categories of value.

What is the *wisdom* of Nature? Let's be realistic: men project religious wisdm into Nature, isn't that right? But Nature when actually seen is a terrifying mirror. So what is 'wisdom'?

I am not sure about your definition of *philosophy*. What it does, what it attempts, depends on the individual wielding it. Meaning, that we reveal our own will when we begin to make grand arguments based on tendentious interpretation. On what basis are these interpretations made? For when we reduce things to their elements it is really quite like what Nietzsche wrote: a terrifying closed system of energy exchange.

I mean, what if science eventually proves that a human genius would be able to create a universe identical to ours--perhaps using a laboratory or perhaps using some sort of holographic virtual reality machine? Is that a truth worth discovering? I don't know. So, if push were to come to shove, which is more important, truth or wisdom?

What are you going to cook for breakfast Gary? What is more important protein or carbohydrate?

I think in my next wondrous essay I am going to have to tell the Story of the Jacobi family. The three siblings Ephraim, Elisabeth and Alexis and how Alexis won-out and got hold of the family wealth! I pushed Ephraim out of the metaphorical nest! He had all the spiritual talent and a great deal of the charisma, but I had the Machiavellian will. I survived, he collapsed.

I am considering putting this behind a paywall though. It's fitting when you think it through ...

[Belinda]

Christ was arguably the most compassionate human being who ever existed. I don't believe he was the God who created this universe, though. Christ would never have created a universe like this.

I'm not sure that Jesus of Nazareth ever claimed to be God.

Who argues that "Christ" (sic) was the most compassionate person who ever existed? You may be sure that those people who argue from that premise would say so. Wouldn't they !

[Alexis Jacobi]

I agree that Christ was compassionate. The only caveat is that he (inadvertently) crushed the skulls of numerous money-changers when he went on that famous rampage. This did not get reported in the Gospel. One of the men -- a shark I admit, a real dirty dealer -- was reduced to the level of mental retardation when Jesus whacked his avaricious head with that hardwood stick! It literally bashed in his skull. He become a drooling retard and his mother had to feed him gruel and change his soiled clothing for the rest of his life.

Where on Earth did you get that from!!?

I simply made a logical extension of the result of an act of violent punishment. What is the main Christian idea? God's punishment. The idea of punishment runs through the Gospels and indeed is one of the central ideas, no?

Here is a curious comparison. Did you know that when Krishna (in the Bhagavatam) defeats and destroys a demon (all the stories of Krishna are stories about his miraculous feats in all sorts of circumstances) that the demon achieves spiritual liberation? Not punishment (eternally) but liberation! Effectively, you cannot have any contact with god (the incarnation of Vishnu) that functions against you. It seems to but in the end the opposite is the case.

Here is an interesting anecdote from my own incarnation chain. This is a completely true story. As sure as I am me and you are you. It is just one of the powerful Stories from my Ten Week Email Liberation Course at only $9.99 a week:

Many lives ago I was an ardent seeker.

I knew of a Master who lived on air alone high up in the mountains of T---------. When He came to the city he was my dharma teacher. But I got it into my head to avoid His injunction to pay attention to my family and community in this life and I set out, in rebellious will but thinking I was doing the right thing, on the long trek upward into the howling winds of extreme mountain ranges to seek Him. After weeks of seeking finally I came across Master with a small group of disciples and burst in on the scene, prostrating myself at His feet, subtly proud of my attainment.

"What use have I for you in your unevolved condition!" He said. "Your trip was in vain. Jump off a cliff for all I care!"

In my despondency I did jump! I died, smashed on the rocks below. But here is the amazing part: Master came and with miraculous metaphysical powers willed my flesh and atoms back together!

"You did well. You obeyed! Now you are in a condition to receive my Wisdom!"

"What will you have me do?" I asked.

"Go back and attend to your family and your community, you idiot!"

________________________________

Interestingly, and from a Vedic perspective, Jesus Christ would be seen (ie interpreted) as being an incarnation of Vishnu. Vishnu incarnates from time to time in various points in the universe to liberate.

There was once an elephant named Gajendra who lived in a garden called Ṛtumat, which was created by Varuna. This garden was located on Mount Trikuta, the "Three-Peaked Mountain". Gajendra ruled over all the other elephants in the herd. One day, as usual, he went to the lake near by to pick lotus flowers to offer prayer to Vishnu. Suddenly, a crocodile living in the lake attacked Gajendra, and caught him by the leg. Gajendra tried for a long time to escape from the crocodile's clutches. All of his herd, relatives, and friends gathered around to help him, but in vain. The crocodile simply would not let go. When they realised that ‘death’ had come close to Gajendra, they left him alone. He trumpeted in pain and helplessness until he was hoarse. As the struggle was seemingly endless, when he had spent his last drop of energy, Gajendra called to his deity Vishnu to save him, holding a lotus up in the air as an offering.

Hearing his devotee's call and prayer, Vishnu rushed to the scene. As Gajendra sighted the god coming, he lifted the lotus with his trunk. Seeing this, Vishnu was pleased, and with his Sudharshana Chakra, he decapitated the crocodile. Gajendra prostrated himself before the deity. Vishnu informed Gajendra that he, in one of his previous births, had been the celebrated King Indradyumna, a devotee of Vishnu, but due to his disrespect to the great sage Agastya, he had been cursed to be reborn as an elephant. Because Indradyumna had been devoted to Vishnu, the deity had him born as Gajendra and made him understand the concept of Kaivalya, which was beyond Svarga and Urdhva Loka, the realm of the gods. Indradyumna was to attain moksha when he (as Gajendra) left all his pride and doubt, and totally surrendered himself to Vishnu.

Let those who have eyes try to see what Alexis Jacobi is communicating here!



Thus I always -- always! -- quote from James 1:5

“If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you”.

[promethean75]

^^^ imagine tryna put that dude in handcuffs.

[Gary Childress]

^^^ imagine tryna put that dude in handcuffs.

Promethean wins the Internet today!! All hail our new leader for the day!

Well done!

[Alexis Jacobi]

^^^ imagine tryna put that dude in handcuffs.

He's the One to call when you're in cuffs and want to get out . . .

[Alexis Jacobi]

Once upon a time the unwilling chela Gary went to beg from Master Alexis seated on his Dias and surrounded by his (we suspect underage) female disciples especially selected for the beauty of their vulvas.

[Alexis is an unconventional Master and this cannot be denied.]

Gary, who seems to have come from a tennis match, held out his racket and demanded foodstuffs.

"Give!" he demanded.

Master Alexis's eyes twinkled. "Of course, my child, of course!"

[Normally, anyone approaching Master to beg gets just one poori but this day Master heaped poori after poori on Gary's racket.]

Gary danced away, a skip in his step, reveling at his good fortune. But lo! he stumbled over an obtruding root and dropped the racket which went skidding along the ground.

Nearby a tribe of Monkeys quickly swooped down, grabbed both racket and pooris, and ascended to the trees to eat in glee.

[Gary Childress]

Once upon a time the unwilling chela Gary went to beg from Master Alexis seated on his Dias and surrounded by his (we suspect underage) female disciples especially selected for the beauty of their vulvas.

[Alexis is an unconventional Master and this cannot be denied.]

Gary, who seems to have come from a tennis match, held out his racket and demanded foodstuffs.

"Give!" he demanded.

Master Alexis's eyes twinkled. "Of course, my child, of course!"

[Normally, anyone approaching Master to beg gets just one poori but this day Master heaped poori after poori on Gary's racket.]

Gary danced away, a skip in his step, revealing at his good fortune. But lo! he stumbled over an obtruding root, dropped the racket which went skidding along the ground.

Nearby a tribe of Monkeys quickly swooped down, grabbed racket and priories, and ascended to the trees to eat in glee.

Good grief. Get over yourself.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Good grief. Get over yourself.

Is the topic now overcoming?

[Gary Childress]

Good grief. Get over yourself.

Is the topic now overcoming?

Why? Do you plan to do a "podcast" on it? Get lost.

[Alexis Jacobi]