Does God have a gender?

[phyllo]

But what about gods that are supposed to transcend space and time, do they have genders?

People often refer for instance to the God of Christianity as a “He,” even when not incarnated as Jesus.

Jehovah used to have a physical body. He also had a wife.

Over time "He" became disembodied and the wife was edited out of the texts.

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna42154769

[Astro Cat]

In many versions of theism, gods are assigned genders. This might make sense for some like Zeus that are supposed to be running around bodily incarnated in some way most of the time.

But what about gods that are supposed to transcend space and time, do they have genders?

People often refer for instance to the God of Christianity as a “He,” even when not incarnated as Jesus.

Now, critics of gender theory usually insist that sex and gender are the same thing and that gender is defined chromosomally, by genitalia, or by gametes (producing sperm or egg). Arguably, a lot of gods that get assigned genders don’t have any of these, yet a lot of gender critics are perfectly comfortable calling their god a He or a She or whatever.

Do they have an explanation for this?

Most deities have some manfiest presence. Usually they are not completely transcendent. Further often the idea is that there are different essential tendencies in men and women and this originated at the spiritual/deity level. Perhaps there is a mother essence and father essence in the deity (or dieities). There are religions where ultimately, the final or complete deity is a combination of male and female essences. YOu can have a kind of independent/unity paradox. There are two facets that are in some way independent AND they are a unity.

The idea that there is something essentially different between the sexes may seem like a traditional or conservative bias, but actually it's much more complicated than that.

Transpersons and everyone who supports them is essentially saying that they are correct in assessing that they are not their birth biological sex. 'I know I am really a woman' or man, despite my body.

IOW in traditional feminism this might be seen as confused. That gender is cultural. Whatever a person born a women feels that makes them think they are really a man, has to do with cultural limits or cultural biases, and really nothing that person is experiencing means they are the other sex. Sort of like, hey if you are tough, like driving trucks and keeping your hair short and tend to dominate in a relationship, you can be a woman. (not that transpersons limit themselves to justifying based on traditionally thought of traits for the sex they think they are, but anything they mention about their experience could be dismissed as cultural ideas).

If one accepts that someone can be born with the wrong body, this points to some kind of essential maleness and femaleness that is not dependent on genitals or chromosomes.

And even a portion of traditional feminism could be seen as having judgements about what men and women ARE. If testosterone can be used in insults, for example, then there is some idea that there are essential differences in character between the sexes.

So, this is paralleled in some religious traditions, where even fairly negulous deities (Shiva and Parvati, say) have different traits related to their sex. Even the was Mary is viewed by many Christians, especially Catholics, has a real sense of deities (who are not walking around in bodies) who have differences related to their sex. Mary had a body, yes, but she's pretty abstract these days. None of them are expecting her to walk into their backyards, well most of the time. But she is some kind of ethereal energy/essence, but one with certain characteristics.

My point is that beyond the genitals and chromomes, there are many groups, even secular Leftist ones, that see some essential difference between men and women, maleness and femaleness. And there's no reason why something not running around in body couldn't exhibit those traits, while being nebulous.

I am not opposed to there being a "maleness" and "femaleness," I have just been opposed to the idea that morphology, chromosomes, or gametes are the only arbiters of gender. I think my point is that someone that thinks God is a "He" (or a "She") is contradicting themselves if they then say that gender is the same thing as sex, and that it is decided by things gods don't have like gametes or chromosomes.

[Gary Childress]

In many versions of theism, gods are assigned genders. This might make sense for some like Zeus that are supposed to be running around bodily incarnated in some way most of the time.

But what about gods that are supposed to transcend space and time, do they have genders?

People often refer for instance to the God of Christianity as a “He,” even when not incarnated as Jesus.

Now, critics of gender theory usually insist that sex and gender are the same thing and that gender is defined chromosomally, by genitalia, or by gametes (producing sperm or egg). Arguably, a lot of gods that get assigned genders don’t have any of these, yet a lot of gender critics are perfectly comfortable calling their god a He or a She or whatever.

Do they have an explanation for this?

Most deities have some manfiest presence. Usually they are not completely transcendent. Further often the idea is that there are different essential tendencies in men and women and this originated at the spiritual/deity level. Perhaps there is a mother essence and father essence in the deity (or dieities). There are religions where ultimately, the final or complete deity is a combination of male and female essences. YOu can have a kind of independent/unity paradox. There are two facets that are in some way independent AND they are a unity.

The idea that there is something essentially different between the sexes may seem like a traditional or conservative bias, but actually it's much more complicated than that.

Transpersons and everyone who supports them is essentially saying that they are correct in assessing that they are not their birth biological sex. 'I know I am really a woman' or man, despite my body.

IOW in traditional feminism this might be seen as confused. That gender is cultural. Whatever a person born a women feels that makes them think they are really a man, has to do with cultural limits or cultural biases, and really nothing that person is experiencing means they are the other sex. Sort of like, hey if you are tough, like driving trucks and keeping your hair short and tend to dominate in a relationship, you can be a woman. (not that transpersons limit themselves to justifying based on traditionally thought of traits for the sex they think they are, but anything they mention about their experience could be dismissed as cultural ideas).

If one accepts that someone can be born with the wrong body, this points to some kind of essential maleness and femaleness that is not dependent on genitals or chromosomes.

And even a portion of traditional feminism could be seen as having judgements about what men and women ARE. If testosterone can be used in insults, for example, then there is some idea that there are essential differences in character between the sexes.

So, this is paralleled in some religious traditions, where even fairly negulous deities (Shiva and Parvati, say) have different traits related to their sex. Even the was Mary is viewed by many Christians, especially Catholics, has a real sense of deities (who are not walking around in bodies) who have differences related to their sex. Mary had a body, yes, but she's pretty abstract these days. None of them are expecting her to walk into their backyards, well most of the time. But she is some kind of ethereal energy/essence, but one with certain characteristics.

My point is that beyond the genitals and chromomes, there are many groups, even secular Leftist ones, that see some essential difference between men and women, maleness and femaleness. And there's no reason why something not running around in body couldn't exhibit those traits, while being nebulous.

I am not opposed to there being a "maleness" and "femaleness," I have just been opposed to the idea that morphology, chromosomes, or gametes are the only arbiters of gender. I think my point is that someone that thinks God is a "He" (or a "She") is contradicting themselves if they then say that gender is the same thing as sex, and that it is decided by things gods don't have like gametes or chromosomes.

So should we change the blank on documents to indicate what "sex" they are instead of what "gender" so that authorities can better track such things or more appropriately label bathrooms or should we just let people pick among some arbitrary array of self-concepts?

[Iwannaplato]

I am not opposed to there being a "maleness" and "femaleness," I have just been opposed to the idea that morphology, chromosomes, or gametes are the only arbiters of gender. I think my point is that someone that thinks God is a "He" (or a "She") is contradicting themselves if they then say that gender is the same thing as sex, and that it is decided by things gods don't have like gametes or chromosomes.

Isn't there something parallel when a transperson feels they are in the wrong body? How could their body be wrong for their gender? Yes, they don't try to change their chromosomes and gametes, but they would if they could most likely.

IOW in the feminism I grew up in notions that what one felt like inside and ones proclivities, temperment, attitudes were all considered culturally conceived and mere projections. Gender was socially constructed.

But a male to female transperson is not saying, generally, I feel like I have attributes that are traditionally consider female, but I am male.
The transperson (who is male->female) is saying, this is the wrong body. I do not feel like a man. I feel inside like a woman. And they tend, those who go through hormones and operations, to move as much physically as possible towards being a woman, and then acting like one - however they interpret this but if there has been a strong tendency to move and act (and dress) like the felt gender/sex.

IOW for them sex and gender are aligned, it's just their soul didn't match their birth body, so they want that other body as much as technology and medicine can make it.

And I don't see that stopping with current abilities to change bodies. If an Avatar like process was available and they could download into a body that did have the target chromosomes and gametes, many would choose that option because it's precisely what they are heading for as best they can within the current limitations of change. That is the right body, this is the wrong one.

I have no problem with that given my beliefs within which that interpretation is possible. But I see it as problematic for traditional feminism and even an ontology like physicalism.

Further I think it parallels what you see as a contradiction in religions. We could say that they see the male God as having a kind of energy that the female Gods don't and should be they manifest and/or are felt, it will be different from the opposite sex deity.

Yes, that would be strange with an entirely transdendent deity, but those are actually rather rare. Most deities manifest in different ways and when they do they are not simply neutral glowing balls of light, say.

I can remember a community I was in which was on the radical end of feminism and most of the authority figures in this community were lesbians. There were some strong mixed feelings - and also direct simple negative ones - about men to women trans especially, precisely because it seemed to be a position that gender and sex need to be aligned. Regardless of their personalities, inside feel, the way they carried themselves, their hair and clothes all the women identified as women and in fact this was important to them. Don't say my being a women means ANYTHING about my proclivities, inner life, attitudes, temperment etc. And so, even the women who many would miss-sex today, iow were miss-identified by others as men, were very clear that they were women. And while they tended to be supportive of in some ways and were not the least freaked out by their appearance, they also thought that a problematic kind of category error was takign place. That it was reactionary.

To put this another way: they might have wanted to say, come on, you're a man. Sure, great you have many traits that fit with traditional constructed women traits'. But you're not a woman. This was even said sometimes, though more diplomatically.

No, I AM a woman and I will align my body with my soul and right now they are out of whack.

[Lacewing]

And if there is an actual Hell that people are sent to to suffer for eternity, well, that seems like a male solution to me. I think female essences would be vastly less likely to come up with that idea or to do it if somehow they were deities.

Interesting point. I agree.

There's so much that doesn't make sense about a creator of humans threatening to destroy them for not believing in and worshipping that creator. Lots of ego and domination woven into that, which reflects the ideas of humans rather than (surely) an all-powerful god.

[Lacewing]

IOW for them sex and gender are aligned, it's just their soul didn't match their birth body

Interesting.

Some people may think souls are male and female? That doesn't seem logical to me... just as a gender for a god doesn't make sense. The gendered human body is just a vehicle. If I were embodied into a car, would I feel more like a Camero than a Toyota? I'm not sure that earthly identities extend beyond the earthly realm.

I've wondered if all of the gender-switching is an earthbound evolutionary process in the midst of confusion as we evolve into androgenous beings? It's a real experience for those who are going through it... riding the crest of that wave, perhaps... and my heart goes out to them. I just wonder about our broader ability/potential to drive any vehicle?

Someday humans might look back on genders as a very primitive time overly-focused on reproduction and identity.

I don't know... this current reality seems a bit overly physical/material-driven to me... and I wonder if we make too big a deal out of that... and maybe miss the potential of the 'spirit/energy' within?

[MagsJ]

_
..seeing that god is called God, and not Goddess.. what do y’all think?

[Gary Childress]

_
..seeing that god is called God, and not Goddess.. what do y’all think?

philosophical quandary solved! We can move on to the next topic!

[Flannel Jesus]

I am not opposed to there being a "maleness" and "femaleness," I have just been opposed to the idea that morphology, chromosomes, or gametes are the only arbiters of gender. I think my point is that someone that thinks God is a "He" (or a "She") is contradicting themselves if they then say that gender is the same thing as sex, and that it is decided by things gods don't have like gametes or chromosomes.

Mormons (arguably) think God has genes. How does that interact with what you've said here?

[MagsJ]

..seeing that god is called God, and not Goddess.. what do y’all think?

philosophical quandary solved! We can move on to the next topic!

Hi-five me bro, come on!

..but seriously.. what do you think?

[Gary Childress]

..seeing that god is called God, and not Goddess.. what do y’all think?

philosophical quandary solved! We can move on to the next topic!

Hi-five me bro, come on!

..but seriously.. what do you think?

OK. High five returned. [insert high five emoji, which I don't have, here]

[MagsJ]

philosophical quandary solved! We can move on to the next topic!

Hi-five me bro, come on!

..but seriously.. what do you think?

OK. High five returned. [insert high five emoji, which I don't have, here]

Lol.. hugs

What do you think about my premise though, re. my God <—> not Goddess supposition?

[Gary Childress]

Hi-five me bro, come on!

..but seriously.. what do you think?

OK. High five returned. [insert high five emoji, which I don't have, here]

Lol.. hugs

What do you think about my premise though, re. my God <—> not Goddess supposition?

Sounds as good as any other to me. I've seen far worse.

[MagsJ]

Sounds as good as any other to me. I've seen far worse.

Lol..

..what if I said I think I’m right, on this one?

What would a mini Gary Childress be like, do you think/imagine?

[Gary Childress]

Sounds as good as any other to me. I've seen far worse.

Lol..

..what if I said I think I’m right, on this one?

What would a mini Gary Childress be like, do you think/imagine?

I was just joking about the mini-me stuff. I'm pretty certain I'm too old and not psychologically all together enough to have a kid.