I want to talk to God

[iambiguous]

Okay, but just to be on the safe side...just in case it's not the Christian God...you might want to contact someone who believes in one of these...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions

...Gods or the One True Path to spiritual salvation.

On the other hand, as IC will assure you, unless it's the Christian God you have this conversation with, well, ask him about that.

Also, see if you can get him to link you to the video that most clearly demonstrates that in fact the Christian God does reside in Heaven. Don't fall for his "the Christian God exists because it says so in the Christian Bible" routine. After all, many of the other One True Paths to immortality and salvation above have their own Scriptures that will tell you that.

You only have to search until you find. After that, it would be silly to search anymore.

But by all means, search as many alternatives as you would like.

Again, he will tell you that unless you accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior, you can't be saved.

But: if others find what they are searching for in another God, on another One True Path, it would be silly for them to go on searching until they come to the Christian God?

He can't even own up to just how dangerous it is to advise others to stop searching if they do find the wrong God!!

[Immanuel Can]

Again, he will tell you that unless you accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior, you can't be saved.

The Bible will tell you that. I'll simply agree.

And just FYI, I've read the Torah, the Koran, the Gita, the Dhammapada, the Tao, and a few other such books in their entirety, as well, and other bits, such as the Gnostic writings and some of the Book of Mormon. I've also read many of the "great" Atheists, and a lot of agnostics, too...including such hardcore types as Hume, Nietzsche and Marx. So it's not like I haven't had a good look around. But you will find that none of them has anything the equal of Jesus Christ. It's that simple, really.

But you can search for yourself. You'll find the same.

[Gary Childress]

I'd like to have a conversation with God. Can someone please point me to where or how I can summon him?

Yes.

But you're going to have to be sincere. He doesn't do "parlor tricks for cynics."

He's not "summonable," either. It's He who controls the agenda and timing of things...no human agency. You need to be willing to take time, and learn to listen. And you need to persist.

But you can, if you want, open a conversation with Him. It's through a thing you'll have heard of before, called "prayer." But I don't mean rote prayers from a misguided ritual childhood, or something like that...I mean an honest conversation, composed of both saying what is true and being willing to listen.

Set aside five minutes at the start of your day. And for the sake of the exercise, suppose maybe He's there and listening. That's what's called "faith," and without it, you get nothing. You have to be prepared to give God the benefit of the doubt...if only a mustard-seed sized benefit. It will be enough.

Talk. Tell the truth. Spill it all out, and say exactly where you've been, and where you are now. Ask for help. Don't lie about where you're at, or make it "nice" or fudge the details...He knows it all anyway. What matters is your attitude to Him. That's what He cares about.

So talk. Then listen. And don't do it just once; turn it into a daily thing, and go for a month or two. And see what it does to you, and to your life.

That's my most helpful advice for you. I could say more, but without this basic, honest conversation with God, the rest doesn't matter. So you'll have to decide whether you want it badly enough to do it, or not. You just won't get there until you're willing to do what it takes.

When you say "prayer" as in you can talk to God through prayer. What does that mean? Do you put your hands together and start talking? Do you have to start if off with "father God" or something? Do you have to assume some physical position like kneeling?

Is he necessarily going to rip me a new one if I don't seem reverent or something? I'm angry and I'm bitter. Is he going to respect that? Or am I going to have to find some way to prostrate myself before him?

[Immanuel Can]

I'd like to have a conversation with God. Can someone please point me to where or how I can summon him?

Yes.

But you're going to have to be sincere. He doesn't do "parlor tricks for cynics."

He's not "summonable," either. It's He who controls the agenda and timing of things...no human agency. You need to be willing to take time, and learn to listen. And you need to persist.

But you can, if you want, open a conversation with Him. It's through a thing you'll have heard of before, called "prayer." But I don't mean rote prayers from a misguided ritual childhood, or something like that...I mean an honest conversation, composed of both saying what is true and being willing to listen.

Set aside five minutes at the start of your day. And for the sake of the exercise, suppose maybe He's there and listening. That's what's called "faith," and without it, you get nothing. You have to be prepared to give God the benefit of the doubt...if only a mustard-seed sized benefit. It will be enough.

Talk. Tell the truth. Spill it all out, and say exactly where you've been, and where you are now. Ask for help. Don't lie about where you're at, or make it "nice" or fudge the details...He knows it all anyway. What matters is your attitude to Him. That's what He cares about.

So talk. Then listen. And don't do it just once; turn it into a daily thing, and go for a month or two. And see what it does to you, and to your life.

That's my most helpful advice for you. I could say more, but without this basic, honest conversation with God, the rest doesn't matter. So you'll have to decide whether you want it badly enough to do it, or not. You just won't get there until you're willing to do what it takes.

When you say "prayer" as in you can talk to God through prayer. What does that mean? Do you put your hands together and start talking? Do you have to start if off with "father God" or something? Do you have to assume some physical position like kneeling?

Is he necessarily going to rip me a new one if I don't seem reverent or something? I'm angry and I'm bitter. Is he going to respect that? Or am I going to have to find some way to prostrate myself before him?

No, I don't think that's at all necessary. What's important is the honesty part.

But to do that, you're probably going to want, for your own sake, to find some private place where people will not overhear you. It's hard to be honest when one feels other people are listening in, even potentially. So get yourself some space in a quiet location.

There are no incantations, no body positions, no gestures or recipes, no religous behaviours or anything else necessary. Just an honest conversation, and a willingness to receive the answers, whenever and however your conversation Partner decides to communicate.

So you just find a comfortable, quiet place to be, and you can start with, something as simple as, "Lord, if you're willing, I have things I need to say, and I'm ready to hear from You." Then let it be whatever it is. It's about honesty, not ceremony.

[iambiguous]

Again, he will tell you that unless you accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior, you can't be saved.

But: if others find what they are searching for in another God, on another One True Path, it would be silly for them to go on searching until they come to the Christian God?

He can't even own up to just how dangerous it is to advise others to stop searching if they do find the wrong God!!

The Bible will tell you that. I'll simply agree.

Note to Astro Cat:

The Bible will tell you too.

And just FYI, I've read the Torah, the Koran, the Gita, the Dhammapada, the Tao, and a few other such books in their entirety, as well, and other bits, such as the Gnostic writings and some of the Book of Mormon. I've also read many of the "great" Atheists, and a lot of agnostics, too...including such hardcore types as Hume, Nietzsche and Marx. So it's not like I haven't had a good look around. But you will find that none of them has anything the equal of Jesus Christ. It's that simple, really.

But you can search for yourself. You'll find the same.

Okay, but what does that really have to do with this:

But: if others find what they are searching for in another God, on another One True Path, it would be silly for them to go on searching until they come to the Christian God?

He can't even own up to just how dangerous it is to advise others to stop searching if they do find the wrong God!!

The "simple" part here is just how ridiculous you come off. You tell everyone that the Christian God exists because it says so in the Christian Bible. And that the Christian Bible tells us that immortality and salvation is derived solely from accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior.

But if others read all the sacred texts above that you did and conclude instead that those Gods are the One True Path, it would be silly for them to search further?

Look, others here take you seriously because you are in fact capable of arguing any number of points with some measure of articulate intelligence. But for me [with you] it revolves around you insisting that your own beliefs are not just a leap of faith but predicated on your insisting that it can be demonstrated that the Christian God does in fact reside in Heaven as it can be demonstrated that the Pope resides in the Vatican.

And since I myself would like to find a way back to a path that includes both immortality and salvation, I can't help but to scoff at the "proof" that you provide.

[Immanuel Can]

The "simple" part here is just how ridiculous you come off.

I can explain it to you.

I can't "understand it for you."

[Gary Childress]

Yes.

But you're going to have to be sincere. He doesn't do "parlor tricks for cynics."

He's not "summonable," either. It's He who controls the agenda and timing of things...no human agency. You need to be willing to take time, and learn to listen. And you need to persist.

But you can, if you want, open a conversation with Him. It's through a thing you'll have heard of before, called "prayer." But I don't mean rote prayers from a misguided ritual childhood, or something like that...I mean an honest conversation, composed of both saying what is true and being willing to listen.

Set aside five minutes at the start of your day. And for the sake of the exercise, suppose maybe He's there and listening. That's what's called "faith," and without it, you get nothing. You have to be prepared to give God the benefit of the doubt...if only a mustard-seed sized benefit. It will be enough.

Talk. Tell the truth. Spill it all out, and say exactly where you've been, and where you are now. Ask for help. Don't lie about where you're at, or make it "nice" or fudge the details...He knows it all anyway. What matters is your attitude to Him. That's what He cares about.

So talk. Then listen. And don't do it just once; turn it into a daily thing, and go for a month or two. And see what it does to you, and to your life.

That's my most helpful advice for you. I could say more, but without this basic, honest conversation with God, the rest doesn't matter. So you'll have to decide whether you want it badly enough to do it, or not. You just won't get there until you're willing to do what it takes.

When you say "prayer" as in you can talk to God through prayer. What does that mean? Do you put your hands together and start talking? Do you have to start if off with "father God" or something? Do you have to assume some physical position like kneeling?

Is he necessarily going to rip me a new one if I don't seem reverent or something? I'm angry and I'm bitter. Is he going to respect that? Or am I going to have to find some way to prostrate myself before him?

No, I don't think that's at all necessary. What's important is the honesty part.

But to do that, you're probably going to want, for your own sake, to find some private place where people will not overhear you. It's hard to be honest when one feels other people are listening in, even potentially. So get yourself some space in a quiet location.

There are no incantations, no body positions, no gestures or recipes, no religous behaviours or anything else necessary. Just an honest conversation, and a willingness to receive the answers, whenever and however your conversation Partner decides to communicate.

So you just find a comfortable, quiet place to be, and you can start with, something as simple as, "Lord, if you're willing, I have things I need to say, and I'm ready to hear from You." Then let it be whatever it is. It's about honesty, not ceremony.

Well, I honestly don't know what to say to God. I just want the woman I love to reciprocate in love for me. I also want God to solve her own troubles in a way that will be favorable to her so that she isn't troubled. I don't know how to say that to God without coming off as demanding. I have nothing to offer God in return for those favors. And because I'm angry and bitter, I can't find it in my heart to ask God for those things in a nice way. So I'm stuck.

[iambiguous]

And just FYI, I've read the Torah, the Koran, the Gita, the Dhammapada, the Tao, and a few other such books in their entirety, as well, and other bits, such as the Gnostic writings and some of the Book of Mormon. I've also read many of the "great" Atheists, and a lot of agnostics, too...including such hardcore types as Hume, Nietzsche and Marx. So it's not like I haven't had a good look around. But you will find that none of them has anything the equal of Jesus Christ. It's that simple, really.

But you can search for yourself. You'll find the same.

Okay, but what does that really have to do with this:

But: if others find what they are searching for in another God, on another One True Path, it would be silly for them to go on searching until they come to the Christian God?

He can't even own up to just how dangerous it is to advise others to stop searching if they do find the wrong God!!

The "simple" part here is just how ridiculous you come off. You tell everyone that the Christian God exists because it says so in the Christian Bible. And that the Christian Bible tells us that immortality and salvation is derived solely from accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior.

But if others read all the sacred texts above that you did and conclude instead that those Gods are the One True Path, it would be silly for them to search further?

Look, others here take you seriously because you are in fact capable of arguing any number of points with some measure of articulate intelligence. But for me [with you] it revolves around you insisting that your own beliefs are not just a leap of faith but predicated on your insisting that it can be demonstrated that the Christian God does in fact reside in Heaven as it can be demonstrated that the Pope resides in the Vatican.

And since I myself would like to find a way back to a path that includes both immortality and salvation, I can't help but to scoff at the "proof" that you provide.

I can explain it to you.

I can't "understand it for you."

Absolutely shameless.

Here's the thing though...

Sometimes I suspect your posts are just an exercise in irony...a con job. You merely adopt this IC persona here in order make arguments that actually mock those who might really believe them.

But are you conning yourself in turn?

Here's what I keep coming back to. You insist that the YouTube videos you linked me to establish enough evidence to warrant believing that in fact the Christian God resides in Heaven. Yet you won't even note the strongest evidence contained in the most powerful video.

Again, think of how preposterous that is. Here you are making this claim, but you refuse to back it up. Now, why on Earth wouldn't you?!!

Well, I'll tell you why....

It's because you know yourself that this evidence does not exist.

[attofishpi]

Why should any of us give a flying fuck about faithless twats?

[attofishpi]

I WANT TO TALK TO GOD

Again...if you are serious about wanting to know God and to remedy your mental anguish then follow atto instuction!

It ain't hard to commit 1hr/week for the cause.

If there is a real church around you, (built of stone) preferably Catholic or Anglican, then at least once a week spend an hour in that church - the older and more stained glass windows etc the better, aesthetics inspires faith.

Sit in a pew and contemplate the life of Christ, for NO other reason, than contemplating what HE went throught to inspire faith and faith in love. Thank God for all the good things through your life.

If you feel the need to talk to God\Christ, then you say "In the name of the Father, the Son and of the Holy Spirit" while signalling with you hand (forehead, abdomen, left and right shoulder) - as a child I would think of it like a walkie-talkie!

But don't be thinking so much about yourself and your desires. Think about things that DO inspire you about life.

Try and think about the wonder of nature and the universe while you talk to God. If you cannot cry for Christ, then you are not ready...and it should come naturally...to cry that HE did not even need to endure that, but HE did (there is a lot to that story than I am willing to share as per reasoning on a public forum)

CRYING should be natural eventually...that is when you KNOW you love God that you love Christ..(my sage instucted me a long time ago that crying is how we show our love)

..Get off the ridiculous meds..have faith, and after about 6 weeks I am certain you will start to feel like a new man.

One other thing. When sitting in the pew ask at least one closed question - make a statement and ask if that is RIGHT? If you are tapped on the right knee or shoulder then consider the question answered as correct.

You need to show Christ some commitment dude...HE ain't gonna respond until you are commited and consider yourself a christian.

btw re "impure thoughts" in the other thread, consider what an actual impure thought might be, rather than just batting one off.

[Gary Childress]

Absolutely shameless.

Here's the thing though...

Sometimes I suspect your posts are just an exercise in irony...a con job. You merely adopt this IC persona here in order make arguments that actually mock those who might really believe them.

I feel certain that IC is not deliberately trying to con anyone. I get the impression that he just has faith in Christ and truly is using the Bible as his guide, following it wherever it may lead him, anchored in the faith that it is a good guide and will not lead him somewhere that he would not ultimately wish to end up. Now, perhaps in his adoption of Christian theology, he is unknowingly participating in some sort of con orchestrated either consciously or subconsciously by the early formulators of Christian theology. That's certainly possible. Of course, it's also possible for any of the rest of us that the sources of our frameworks of understanding the world are based on some sort of bad will or mistake on the part of those who formulated those frameworks as their guide.

One thing seems evident to me. Probing and questioning things leads to a better understanding of how ideas interrelate and work and why. I adhere to agnosticism as my baseline, at least until I better understand the world of ideas and the world of ideas is so vast that I will probably never fully understand them all. So maybe I'll be agnostic forever.

IC claims he has studied the religions of the world enough to have made an informed decision regarding which one is best to pursue. If that's the case, then, me not being privy to a religious upbringing, I prefer to question him in ways that push the limits of understanding in order to get closer to how Christianity works and why. I can only hope that it doesn't harm anything to be that way. I know of people who go into Christianity more or less blindly, taking the Bible as the last word on everything without really knowing anything about the other religions of the world. Maybe that makes them ignorant or maybe that's a shortcut straight to the right way of doing things. I don't know.

I don't fully trust theology, probably for no other reason than there have been so many different instantiations of it, each of which seems to claim that it has the better take on how it is best to live. I know one of Carl Sagan's claims was that the birth of modern science occurred when some early Greek philosophers told themselves, what if ALL the religions are wrong? I think that it's certainly possible that all religions are just failed proto-scientific theories. For whatever reason that has a certain appeal to it that seems more fair and universalist than the notion that of all the religions, one has things more right than all the others. I mean, I don't know.

[Agent Smith]

Historically, only Moses ever had a conversation with YHWH

[Gary Childress]

Historically, only Moses ever had a conversation with YHWH

Well, technically, wouldn't the same hold true of everyone who spoke to Jesus? Not sure how that works but I guess any encounter with even a part of the trinity would count as an encounter with God. Maybe?

[Gary Childress]

If not, them maybe I should amend the title of this thread to "I want to talk to Jesus." Maybe talking to Jesus would get a different result from talking to a burning bush or whatever?

[attofishpi]

If not, them maybe I should amend the title of this thread to "I want to talk to Jesus." Maybe talking to Jesus would get a different result from talking to a burning bush or whatever?

Wots up Gary? Was my suggestion not enough for you? Do you actually think that if God exists, that everything I have been talking about since my 1997 interactions with this entity as BOLLOCKS.