Vastness of divine knowledge

[dattaswami]

DOUBTS AND MISUNDERSTANDINGS PROPORTIONAL TO SIZE OF KNOWLEDGE

Dr. Prasad asked: Your spiritual knowledge is vast! People say that philosophy starts where science ends. But, you are giving lot of importance to science in your philosophy. Please explain.

Swami replied: The knowledge became vast because all the points of the spiritual knowledge are elaborated using a systematic scientific analysis maintaining the highest clarity covering the various levels of all devotees related to all the world religions for bringing peace and harmony in the world. I can’t help the vastness in view of the above parameters. Moreover, in the present time, there is no scarcity of paper and ink or the vast area of computer accommodating any volume of information.

A person fasted taking one little meal per day while he was very poor. Why should he not take full meals on both times of the day, when he became rich by God’s grace? In the ancient days, recording instruments were either nil or with very little availability. A letter is to be formed on the palm leaf using a needle type pen piercing pores in the shape of alphabet. Lot of time taken for little writing, inability to prepare copies of the book in one time etc., forced the preachers to present the concepts with utmost briefness and this led to many doubts and misunderstandings due to lack of clarity, which is proportional to size of the book.

The meaning of the statement that philosophy starts where science ends is in a specific context of speaking about the absolute unimaginable God, beyond the space and time. The creation is imaginable, which contains items visible and invisible. Science explains all these imaginable items (both visible and invisible) only. Science is the logical analysis of all the items of the imaginable creation. Science is excellent authority as far as the analysis of imaginable creation is concerned. But, it cannot apply to the unimaginable God, who is beyond and untouched by the creation. With reference to this specific context only, the Veda says that God is beyond words, beyond mind, beyond intelligence, beyond logic, only known as unknown etc.

In the light of this context only the above saying is valid. But, such unimaginable God comes down in imaginable and visible human form to guide the devotees in their spiritual efforts. Devotees get four types of fortunes (Bhagya chatushtayam) to see, touch, talk and live with God. The explanation behind the unimaginable God becoming visible God is very much required. Whether the soul is God or not is a question. What is the real path to please God? So many spiritual questions are to be answered clearly by scientific logic.

Leaving that one topic of information of unimaginable God, all other topics of spiritual knowledge involve either pure imaginable domains or unimaginable domain in association with imaginable domain expressed as imaginable domain. These imaginable domains need the background of science in the analysis. We will exempt that one topic since it is beyond logic and even imagination. Logic applied between imaginable items cannot apply to unimaginable God. If we throw away the science from the entire spiritual knowledge, innocent and ignorant fools will play with us like playing with football! They keep the concept of unimaginable God in their front as shield and go on playing with the innocent public like the present politicians doing all sorts of sins keeping Mahatma Gandhi before them as their covering shield!

What is science? It is only systematic analysis of all the items of this imaginable creation. What is logic or Tarka Shaastra? Tarka means the subject in which all the items of creation are discussed and analysed (Tarkyante padaarthaah asmin iti tarkah). Now, tell Me, what is the difference between the modern science and ancient logic? Both are one and the same. In the ancient tradition, there is a rule, which says that without studying Tarka Shaastra, you can’t study the Vedanta Shastra (philosophy). The modern science is a better authority than ancient logic since experimental proof followed by very shrewd analysis exists in science. Some errors in ancient logic were disproved by the modern science.

Ancient logic says that sound is the property of vacuum (Aakasha). It is wrong since sound requires some medium to travel. Science proves that awareness is the specific work form of inert energy functioning in a specific system called as nervous system and it is only a worldly item. Ancient philosophy (a branch) mistakes awareness to be the unimaginable God. Hence, science or Tarka is essential in spiritual knowledge. If anybody is My real disciple, he/she should accept even Me or even My knowledge through analysis only and not because Myself or someone says that I am God Datta. Lord Krishna said the same at the end of the Gita that whatever told by Krishna should be deeply analysed before accepting it (Vimrushyaitat...).

Krishna Himself is telling the necessity of analysis. Shankara says that analysis to differentiate truth and false is essential requirement in spiritual knowledge (sadasat vivekah...). Even the Veda says that philosophy should be discussed with the help of scientific analysis to draw right conclusions (Vedaanta Vijnana sunishchitaarthaah).

[Harbal]

DOUBTS AND MISUNDERSTANDINGS PROPORTIONAL TO SIZE OF KNOWLEDGE

Dr. Prasad asked: Your spiritual knowledge is vast! How did you come to be such a fucking know-it-all?

Swami replied:

[Dontaskme]

Knowledge be it spiritual or material can only point to the illusory nature of reality.

THIS unknowing known.

[dattaswami]

Knowledge be it spiritual or material can only point to the illusory nature of reality.

THIS unknowing known.

Shankara told that an unreal cause can generate real effect by giving an example: an unreal tiger seen in a dream generated trembling of the body and loud weeping. The tiger, which is cause, is unreal, but, its effects like trembling and weeping are real. Hence, an unreal cause through illusion (which means that the unreal is appearing as real due to ignorance) can become the cause for real effect.

[Iwannaplato]

x

[Iwannaplato]

x

[dattaswami]

Knowledge be it spiritual or material can only point to the illusory nature of reality.

THIS unknowing known.

Ajñāna vikṣepa means the practical influence of ignorance due to its long standing. Ajñāna āvaraṇa means the theoretical influence of ignorance, which disappears as soon as the truth is realised. Śaṅkara gave a beautiful example for this concept:- A person is sleeping and saw a tiger in the dream for a long time and was terribly frightened. He somehow woke up and realised that the tiger is not real but false. This realisation is the end of Ajñāna Āvaraṇa. Even though, such realisation was got, still, he was shivering due to the long practical experience of the dream. Such shivering disappears after a long time only. Not only this, he often says “whenever I remember that dream I shiver”.

Hence, getting rid of the theoretical ignorance by realisation is completely different from getting rid of the practical influence of the ignorance. Theory is very easy whereas practice is very very difficult. The soul can never realise this world as practically false by thinking that this world is unreal. The reason for this permanent practical influence is not due to Ajñāna vikṣepa as said in the case of dream tiger, but, the actual reason is that the world is as real as the soul.

Both world and soul are relative realities and God alone is the absolute reality. Hence, world can be practically realised as unreal by God and not by the soul because the soul is a part of the world and is a relative reality like the relatively real world. Therefore, soul is absolute reality in the view of the world and world is absolute reality in the view of the soul. Hence, you shall not say that the world is real because of influence of your practical ignorance, in which case the world should have been actually unreal for you.

If you leave the worldly bonds for the sake of God thinking that God is absolutely real and world is relatively real, it does not speak about your real love to God because there is a valid reason for your real love to God. If God and world are in the same phase of reality and still you love God due to your attraction to the personality of God, such love is real love.

Hence, the competition comes between relatively real mediated God and relatively real world (worldly bonds). The competition never comes between absolutely real unimaginable God and relatively real world. The mediated God has all the properties of the worldly medium as any other worldly bond has, which are birth, death, illness, hunger, thirst, sex, sleep etc., and hence, the competition is not based on the point of reality.

[Dubious]

I imagine the unimaginable god to be a figment of one's imagination. In the imagination domain random figments are scurrying all over the place hoping to never get caught. If you do catch such a figment it only amounts to a single minnow in an ocean of minnows.

[dattaswami]

I imagine the unimaginable god to be a figment of one's imagination. In the imagination domain random figments are scurrying all over the place hoping to never get caught. If you do catch such a figment it only amounts to a single minnow in an ocean of minnows.

Any item in this world can be imagined because it has got spatial coordinates. But God do not possess any spatial coordinates or volume. Hence HE is unimaginable and beyond even imagination of human brain, however God knows about Himself.

[Dubious]

I imagine the unimaginable god to be a figment of one's imagination. In the imagination domain random figments are scurrying all over the place hoping to never get caught. If you do catch such a figment it only amounts to a single minnow in an ocean of minnows.

Any item in this world can be imagined because it has got spatial coordinates. But God do not possess any spatial coordinates or volume. Hence HE is unimaginable and beyond even imagination of human brain, however God knows about Himself.

There is no way you, or any human in all of history, could know...I mean truly KNOW that there actually is a god.

[Veritas Aequitas]

Any item in this world can be imagined because it has got spatial coordinates. But God do not possess any spatial coordinates or volume. Hence HE is unimaginable and beyond even imagination of human brain, however God knows about Himself.

What is unimaginable is never real.
Thus, your God is not real, i.e. it is an illusion and false.

What is imaginable is because it is within the real of sensibility and experience, thus possible experience and can be proven to be real upon the production of the relevant evidence.

Thus I can imagine human-like beings existing in a planet 1 million light years away because all these bolded terms are of possible experience thus can be verified upon the production of evidences.

Your God is unimaginable and can only be thought of, thus it cannot be real, so, it is an illusion and false.

To insist an unimaginable God can be real is irrational intellectual cowardice.

[promethean75]

Vigorous Antelope just pwned the swami.

[Iwannaplato]

What is unimaginable is never real.

So, the reality of things is dependent on our ability to imagine things? If we can't imagine something, then it cannot be real?
This is an oddly anthropocentric view of the universe. Oddly, or really ironic, given the person suggesting it.

[Veritas Aequitas]

I imagine the unimaginable god to be a figment of one's imagination. In the imagination domain random figments are scurrying all over the place hoping to never get caught. If you do catch such a figment it only amounts to a single minnow in an ocean of minnows.

Any item in this world can be imagined because it has got spatial coordinates. But God do not possess any spatial coordinates or volume. Hence HE is unimaginable and beyond even imagination of human brain, however God knows about Himself.

Note the term 'imagine' which origin is linked with an ability to form an 'image' of in the mind.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/imagine#Etymology

Whatever is imaginable, i.e. can form image is possible to be real.

Whatever is unimaginable is not real but nevertheless can be thought of.
Example one can ONLY think of a square-circle which can never be real thus cannot be imagined at all.
God is unimaginable [like a square-circle], as such merely a thought only, thus cannot be real at all.

[Iwannaplato]

Note the term 'imagine' which origin is linked with an ability to form an 'image' of in the mind.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/imagine#Etymology

Whatever is imaginable, i.e. can form image is possible to be real.

Whatever is unimaginable is not real but nevertheless can be thought of.

So, again the limits of our imagination set the limits of the real. I wonder what research this is based on and how VA thinks this is falsifiable.

Example one can ONLY think of a square-circle which can never be real thus cannot be imagined at all.

In Taxicab geometry they can be.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicab_geometry

God is unimaginable [like a square-circle], as such merely a thought only, thus cannot be real at all.

We can't really imagine anything, in totality. We imagine a symbolic image for it. I can't fully imagine my wife, though I know her better than anyone. What I imagine is a kind of shifting set of images and feelings for her.

This is just VA, as usual, asserting stuff, based on weak or no arguments.

I hope he let's us know how accurately he imagines something being a wave and a particle at the same time. For me, that's as hard as imagining a square circle.

But the main silliness is that in VA's world, our inability to make a mental image of something rules out its existence.

That one big LOL....