Different stages in atheism and theism

[dattaswami]

DIFFERENT STAGES IN ATHEISM AND THEISM


Atheism, which does not accept the existence of God, has two stages. In the lower stage, the negation of God is associated with sin and injustice. In the higher stage, the negation of God is associated with good deeds and social justice. Even the atheist in the higher stage will be awarded with the temporary heaven since there is no reference of God. Similarly, the theism, which is the acceptance of God, has also two stages. In the lower stage, the devotee is reluctant to unhappiness and is attracted towards happiness. In this lower stage, the devotee has reason for his devotion. In order to get rid of difficulties and to get happiness, God is worshipped.

Such devotion is not true devotion to God. All the devotion is selfish and the love of devotee to God is only for his happiness. Such devotion is the result of general human psychology in the world. The same psychology exists even in the worldly bonds as said in the Veda (Atmanah kamaya…). The husband loves his wife since she gives happiness to him. The wife loves the husband since she also gets the same happiness from him. The children love the parents for their financial support. The parents love their children aspiring future service in their old age. Therefore, all the worldly bonds are selfish only. In the same way, the love towards God is also like any worldly bond. In this devotion, the psychology of the human being is not changed.

Nivrutti, the field related to God, is only an extension of Pravrutti, the field related to the world. In the higher stage of Nivrutti, the devotee enjoys both happiness and unhappiness equally. In this higher stage, the devotee is not reluctant to unhappiness and is not attracted to the happiness. For him, both are one and the same like sweet and hot dishes in the meals. He enjoys both equally. In this higher stage, absolutely there is no need for the devotion to God. In this stage, there is nothing to aspire and there is nothing to reject. The help of God is not needed at all. Therefore, the devotion to God becomes meaningless and useless. But, in such stage also if there is devotion to God, such devotion is real and God is thrilled towards such devotion.

Therefore, you have to achieve the stage of Yogi, in which you can enjoy the situations of happiness and unhappiness equally (Samatvam yoga uchyate... Gita). When you achieve this stage, you are said to be in the final goal of Pravrutti. After this stage only, the real devotion starts. The Lord asked Arjuna first to become Yogi (Tasmaat yogi bhavaarjuna…). To achieve the goal of this yoga, practice is essential (Karma karanamuchyate… Gita). Once this stage of yoga is attained, all the desires are pacified because there is nothing to reject since everything is enjoyable. When all the desires are subsided in this way, the final stage of yoga is achieved (Shamah karanamuchyate… Gita). When there is nothing to be achieved, the reason for devotion disappears. Therefore, the devotion also must disappear. But, if the devotion does not disappear in this stage, such reasonless devotion is the true devotion.

The eyes of God are turned towards such a devotee. Till then, God does not look at you. You are thinking that God favors you by giving happiness and removes the difficulties by your devotional prayers and worship. It is only your illusion. Your difficulties, which are the fruits of your sins, are only postponed with compounded interest. The happiness, which is the fruit of your good deeds, is given to you by dragging the fruits of your good deeds fixed in the future life cycles with reduced interest like premature deposits. All this is just an arranged mechanical system and God does not even look at this mechanism. You think that God does all this. You think that God created happiness without your good deeds. You also think that God destroyed your unhappiness. All this illusion is due to lack of your insight towards the background of the mechanism (Nadatte kasyachit paapam… Gita). The Lord openly clarified this by stating that such thinking is due to illusion based on the ignorance of the background mechanism (Tena muhyanti jantavah… Gita).

The lower stage of devotion is better than the higher stage of atheism. The reason is that at least the acceptance of God exists in the lower stage of the devotion. There is always a chance of transformation from the lower stage to the higher stage in the devotion. Therefore, the lower stage of devotion should not be discouraged, which is the stage of almost 99% of the devotees. In course of time, the devotee in the lower stage climbs to the higher stage after receiving the divine knowledge from Satguru. Without yoga, you cannot come into the looks of God. After attaining the yoga completely, your false devotion becomes true devotion and the gracious glance of God falls on you. Then only, you have started the real spiritual journey. The devotee in such stage is called as yogarudha in the Gita (yogarudhasya tasyaiva…).

Therefore, you must understand the real meaning of yoga. Yoga is misunderstood as performance of some physical exercises or breathing exercises. Of course, such exercises are also good for maintaining good health. Such health is the basis of yoga, which should not be directly called as yoga. Yoga also should not be misunderstood as developing inertia towards happiness and unhappiness. This type of misunderstanding is horrible since it is quite opposite to the process of yoga. The first misunderstanding is at least appreciable since it happens to be the basis of yoga. Attainment of yoga is achieving the partial stage of God, which is equal enjoyment of happiness and unhappiness in the creation. By this, you have not become God, who is called as Yogishwara. Yogishwara means the Lord of Yogis.

This partial achievement is through the divine knowledge and this is the partial monism (Advaita). Shankara taught this stage in the beginning to the atheists. Next, Ramanuja came and taught the real devotion. Finally, Madhva came and taught that the real devotion is always proven by practical sacrifice, which is the practical service without aspiring for any fruit in turn.

Hanuman served Rama practically without aspiring for anything in return. In the Ramayana, you will find no occasion in which Hanuman praised Rama through any prayer. His devotion was always in terms of service, which is the practical sacrifice. Hanuman did not differentiate the service to Rama from the service to world. Hanuman was completely dedicated in the personal work of Rama, which was search of His wife and the war to get back His wife. Hanuman did not misunderstand Rama when Rama told that He would go back if Sita was returned. This is a test to Hanuman to see whether Hanuman gets displeased since Ravana will not be killed in such option.

If Ravana is killed, it is service to the world. The personal service to Rama was not differentiated from the service to the world. This shows that the human form called as Rama is not differentiated from the unimaginable God. Identification of Rama as God especially when Rama behaved like an ordinary human being is one acid test. Involvement in purely personal service, which is of no use to the world, is another acid test. Hanuman passed both these acid tests because He did not differentiate the human incarnation from the absolute God and did not differentiate the work of Rama from the work of God.

[Veritas Aequitas]

DIFFERENT STAGES IN ATHEISM AND THEISM


Atheism, which does not accept the existence of God, has two stages. In the lower stage, the negation of God is associated with sin and injustice. In the higher stage, the negation of God is associated with good deeds and social justice. Even the atheist in the higher stage will be awarded with the temporary heaven since there is no reference of God. Similarly, the theism, which is the acceptance of God, has also two stages. In the lower stage, the devotee is reluctant to unhappiness and is attracted towards happiness. In this lower stage, the devotee has reason for his devotion. In order to get rid of difficulties and to get happiness, God is worshipped.

The psychological state of non-theism [atheism] range within a continuum from the lower of ignorance to the higher states of objectivity, rationality, critical thinking, philosophy-proper and wisdom.

The state of theism range within a continuum from the lower of faith [irrationality], beliefs, weak psychology [due to an existential crisis], to the highest with mental illness and extreme psychosis.

The more intense belief in a God is related to hallucinogens, drugs, stress, brain damage and mental illness.

Many have had experiences of God due to suffering from Temporal Epilepsy;

Ramachandran, the Temporal Lobes and God
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIiIsDIkDtg

Jill Bolte had a super experience of the divine when she suffered a severe stroke'
My stroke of insight | Jill Bolte Taylor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU&t=5s

St Paul, Muhammad and many mystics, godmen of India displayed many symptoms of Temporal Epilepsy.

Many godmen in India display symptoms of schizophrenia and other mental illnesses.

Schizophrenic tied to tree for 15 years
Ironically, Subhash's capacity to survive the vagaries of nature made villagers think that he had supernatural powers. His appearance made the villagers take him to be a godman.
They started worshipping him and calling him 'Bediwale Baba'.
Sitabai is amazed how he survived these long 15 years despite extreme weather condition.
"Many people from nearby villages started coming to meet him to seeking solutions to all their problems in life, bringing rich offerings along," told an amazed Sitabai.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 561786.cms

Your intensity to preach God is so great as displayed in this forum may a sign of some psychological aberation?

[dattaswami]

St Paul, Muhammad and many mystics, godmen of India displayed many symptoms of Temporal Epilepsy.

Many godmen in India display symptoms of schizophrenia and other mental illnesses.

Datta is called as Unmatta Datta, which means that Datta is mad. The reason for this is that He gives the absolute divine knowledge from His absolute state, which is the absolute reality. In that state, every thing except Him is relatively real including the souls. In this state He is called as Nirguna Datta, which means that He is in the state of absolute reality without any relative reality. The entire creation including the souls is a relative reality only and is just His imagination or quality or feeling (Guna) only. The guna is a property, which is not independent and depends on its substratum (Guni) only. Such substratum is God or Para Brahman who is far from imagination.

The knowledge radiating from that state is absolute truth, which cannot be digested by human beings who are in the lowest layer called as Maya. Therefore, Datta looks like a mad fellow whose statements are beyond the normal digestion. Shri Rama Krishna Parama Hamsa was going to Panchavati for meditation and was in that top state. A newly married person told Him that his wife is hindering him from participating in the spiritual discussion (Satsanga). Immediately Parama Hamsa told him just to divorce his wife. He was shocked. For the plane of normal human beings such knowledge looks like the statements of a mad person. In fact, the souls are mad of the plane of lower relative reality. For mad people, a wise person is mad relatively.

[Lacewing]

Datta is called as Unmatta Datta, which means that Datta is mad. The reason for this is that He gives the absolute divine knowledge from His absolute state, which is the absolute reality.

That is what a mad person would say.

The knowledge radiating from that state is absolute truth, which cannot be digested by human beings who are in the lowest layer called as Maya. Therefore, Datta looks like a mad fellow whose statements are beyond the normal digestion.

Anyone can say that their knowledge is radiating from a state of absolute truth which mere mortals in a lower state cannot understand. And many people on this forum have said (and do say) that! Yet, these 'divine ones' go on and on talking to those people who supposedly cannot understand, and this is clearly because these uniquely divine ones love seeing themselves as such!

The truth is revealed by the "fruits" such people bear: self-indulgence, nonsense, avoidance, inconsistency, excessiveness, and continually speaking at people in an intoxicated manner are all signs of what is really at work.

Wouldn't it make more sense for you to focus on environments where the people might actually believe you -- or are you having trouble finding such people? What are you accomplishing on this forum... beyond, of course, dancing around on a stage like the rest of us? Apparently, doing that is not beneath you.

[dattaswami]

Wouldn't it make more sense for you to focus on environments where the people might actually believe you -- or are you having trouble finding such people? What are you accomplishing on this forum... beyond, of course, dancing around on a stage like the rest of us? Apparently, doing that is not beneath you.

God always tries to bring every soul into the spiritual line. When a school is established in village, a teacher of the school not only teaches the students in the school, but also, tries his level best to bring every teenager of the village to the school. If he fails in a case, it is not the bad fate of the teacher, but it is the bad fate of the teenager. A spiritual devotee shall try to create spiritual interest in every soul as far as possible to please God.

[Lacewing]

Wouldn't it make more sense for you to focus on environments where the people might actually believe you -- or are you having trouble finding such people? What are you accomplishing on this forum... beyond, of course, dancing around on a stage like the rest of us? Apparently, doing that is not beneath you.

God always tries to bring every soul into the spiritual line. When a school is established in village, a teacher of the school not only teaches the students in the school, but also, tries his level best to bring every teenager of the village to the school. If he fails in a case, it is not the bad fate of the teacher, but it is the bad fate of the teenager. A spiritual devotee shall try to create spiritual interest in every soul as far as possible to please God.

How are you reaching everyone by focusing on this forum?

What other forums are you posting to?

[Age]

Datta is called as Unmatta Datta, which means that Datta is mad. The reason for this is that He gives the absolute divine knowledge from His absolute state, which is the absolute reality.

That is what a mad person would say.

The knowledge radiating from that state is absolute truth, which cannot be digested by human beings who are in the lowest layer called as Maya. Therefore, Datta looks like a mad fellow whose statements are beyond the normal digestion.

Anyone can say that their knowledge is radiating from a state of absolute truth which mere mortals in a lower state cannot understand. And many people on this forum have said (and do say) that! Yet, these 'divine ones' go on and on talking to those people who supposedly cannot understand, and this is clearly because these uniquely divine ones love seeing themselves as such!

Projection.

The truth is revealed by the "fruits" such people bear: self-indulgence, nonsense, avoidance, inconsistency, excessiveness, and continually speaking at people in an intoxicated manner are all signs of what is really at work.

Wouldn't it make more sense for you to focus on environments where the people might actually believe you -- or are you having trouble finding such people?

So, according to this "logic" people should only keep re-repeating what "others" already believe is true.

Would it really make more sense for one to focus on environments where the people are ALREADY believing things?

What are you accomplishing on this forum... beyond, of course, dancing around on a stage like the rest of us? Apparently, doing that is not beneath you.