It is not known what created the mind.popeye1945 wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 12:02 pm Is not the subconscious mind just the consciousness of the body, it was after all the body that created the mind, not the mind that created the body.
Thinking is the ability of mind
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind
Re: Thinking is the ability of mind
I just want to make a distinction between my mind and other minds that reside in my body.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 3:50 pmThen it is not subconscious. and then why must it be conscious. It merely needs to be affected by things.bahman wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 3:42 pmThe subconscious mind is conscious. How could properly function if it is not?Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 3:37 pm
Yeah, but they're not conscious. So, they don't experience qualia. I'm not sure how you know they create qualia, also. I mean, doesn't the conscious mind create qualia? If it doesn't then it isn't fully mind. And if it doesn't then it doesn't need the subconscious mind to create them.
Re: Thinking is the ability of mind
Ok, that seems better word to use.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 3:51 pmI think it's a property, not an ability.
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind
OK, but how could you know they are conscious. They could merely be complicated systems that react in complicated ways to external and internation stimuli. Unless you share consciousness with them or are them sometimes.
Re: Thinking is the ability of mind
I have an argument so-called argument of motion in which I show that a conscious mind is needed for any change. Therefore, there must be other minds in my body that are responsible for other changes that I am not in charge of them.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 4:22 pmOK, but how could you know they are conscious. They could merely be complicated systems that react in complicated ways to external and internation stimuli. Unless you share consciousness with them or are them sometimes.
And yes, I talk with my other minds.
Re: Thinking is the ability of mind
Re: Thinking is the ability of mind
This is "bahman's definition", which, OBVIOUSLY, does NOT necessarily FIT IN with the OTHER definitions USED for words when describing and illustrating the True and Right PICTURE of 'things'.bahman wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 3:14 pmMind, by definition, is an irreducible substance with the ability to experience and cause quale.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 7:56 amWell, given that you mention the unconscious mind as one of the parts, it does not share, then, the emergent property of consciousness, by definition. Even it if can carry out some/many functions.bahman wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:00 pm There is no strong emergence (this is discussed here). This means that the brain cannot possibly have a property that the parts don't have. The brain thinks. Therefore, thinking is the property of parts/minds (mind being irreducible substance with abilities to experience, think, decide and cause).
If I am the conscious mind and he subconscious minds are other minds that do other stuff, I've got an emergent property: consciousness.In such a system, the brain, for example, we have a hierarchy of minds, the conscious mind which is you, and subconscious minds which are other minds that take care of other things.
Re: Thinking is the ability of mind
A GREAT DEAL of "bahman's" responses do NOT relate to what "others" ACTUALLY WRITE.
This is because "bahman's" UNCHANGING BELIEFS about what is right or true PREVENT "bahman" from ACTUALLY SEEING and UNDERSTANDING what "others" are POINTING OUT and SAYING.
Re: Thinking is the ability of mind
What do you mean by 'experience' here?bahman wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 3:41 pmIt is. Consciousness is the ability of the mind, the ability to experience.
Can nerve endings on a body have the ability to 'experience'?
Re: Thinking is the ability of mind
You CLAIM there are at least two minds, in the WHOLE of the Universe. (You even CLAIM that they existed BEFORE the Universe even cam into existence, not this matters here, correct?) So, HOW MANY of these so-called "subconscious minds" are there existing?bahman wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 3:42 pmThe subconscious mind is conscious. How could properly function if it is not?Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 3:37 pmYeah, but they're not conscious. So, they don't experience qualia. I'm not sure how you know they create qualia, also. I mean, doesn't the conscious mind create qualia? If it doesn't then it isn't fully mind. And if it doesn't then it doesn't need the subconscious mind to create them.
Re: Thinking is the ability of mind
Thee Mind, just like thee Universe, were NOT 'created'.jayjacobus wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 3:55 pmIt is not known what created the mind.popeye1945 wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 12:02 pm Is not the subconscious mind just the consciousness of the body, it was after all the body that created the mind, not the mind that created the body.
Re: Thinking is the ability of mind
If 'I' has 'a mind', which is what you are SAYING and MEANING when 'you' write; "my mind", then that MEANS that that 'I' existed BEFORE 'the mind'. BUT, you ALSO SAY 'the mind' existed BEFORE or CREATED the Universe.bahman wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 4:19 pmI just want to make a distinction between my mind and other minds that reside in my body.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 3:50 pmThen it is not subconscious. and then why must it be conscious. It merely needs to be affected by things.
As I have EXPLAINED to you PREVIOUSLY "bahman" the MORE you SPEAK the MORE you CONTRADICT "your" OWN 'self'.
Although what is KNOWN, deep down WITHIN 'you', and which you are 'trying to' CONVEY and EXPRESS here, is IRREFUTABLY True, Right, AND Correct, the WAY 'you' are EXPRESSING 'It' is ONLY UNDOING what 'you' are 'TRYING TO' achieve here.
Re: Thinking is the ability of mind
As can be CLEARLY SEEN and PROVED here through the 'reactions' made during external discussion, or internation stimuli', and responses, and which the internalizations are EXPRESSED CLEARLY here.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 4:22 pmOK, but how could you know they are conscious. They could merely be complicated systems that react in complicated ways to external and internation stimuli.
'you', adult human beings, COMPLICATE 'that' what is ESSENTIALLY NOT.
SHARED 'consciousness' is WHERE thee Truth is ACTUALLY FOUND, and by the way, what IS thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things'.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 4:22 pm Unless you share consciousness with them or are them sometimes.
Re: Thinking is the ability of mind
This argument has ALREADY BEEN SHOWN, and thus PROVED, to be FAULTY.bahman wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 4:37 pmI have an argument so-called argument of motion in which I show that a conscious mind is needed for any change.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 4:22 pmOK, but how could you know they are conscious. They could merely be complicated systems that react in complicated ways to external and internation stimuli. Unless you share consciousness with them or are them sometimes.
You CLAIM the Universe BEGAN, from NO THING. Which, OBVIOUSLY, CONTRADICTS that the change NEEDED for the Universe to BEGIN came from SOME 'thing', namely a 'conscious mind'.
LOL
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So, now 'you' have MANY so-called "conscious minds" in that body.
EXACTLY HOW MANY of these 'conscious minds' do you PROPOSE there ARE in that body?
So, WHO, EXACTLY, is this 'I' who talking with 'It's' MANY, so-called "other" "minds"?
And, WHY do 'you' just NOT have ONE "mind" ONLY? Why did 'you' CHOOSE to HAVE and OWN MANY "conscious" and "subconscious" "minds"?
By the way, do 'you' HAVE and OWN ANY "unconscious minds"?
If no, then WHY NOT?
There are, after all, "unsconcious minds", right?
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind
bahman,bahman wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 3:16 pmThe mind cannot be created or destroyed. Subconscious mind tasks are huge, from memory, creating quale, etc.popeye1945 wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 12:02 pm Is not the subconscious mind just the consciousness of the body, it was after all the body that created the mind, not the mind that created the body.
The mind cannot be created or destroyed is a nonsense statement, it is destroyed everyday and the fact that all things are temporal in nature makes your statement absurd.
Last edited by popeye1945 on Sat May 14, 2022 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.