Ukraine Crisis

[iambiguous]

Well, let's just say that if it comes to Russia taking over Ukraine and all the rest of what used to be the USSR and that's where it ends short of a nuclear war where I'm likely to get blown away, I can live with that.

I'd feel bad for those crushed by Putin but if it's either that or oblivion, then it's that.

Maybe even France and England too.

I'm just being practical. Since I don't believe in the afterlife and live just 35 miles from an all but certain target for Putin's nukes, I've got to go along with whatever keeps me alive. However fractured and fragmented I may be about it all morally, there are still things in my life that make living worthwhile. I can only hope for whatever keeps me on this side of the grave.

[Walker]

"Given the potential desperation of President Putin and the Russian leadership, given the setbacks that they've faced so far militarily, none of us can take lightly the threat posed by a potential resort to tactical nuclear weapons or low yield nuclear weapons ..."
- President Zelensky, hours ago

Comment: Putin's nuclear deterrent has worked so far. Based on that, he could reason that the West will not retaliate if he uses nuclear weapons against Ukraine, because the West doesn't want to destroy the planet, and his attacks have been restricted to Ukraine.

[Dontaskme]

"Given the potential desperation of President Putin and the Russian leadership, given the setbacks that they've faced so far militarily, none of us can take lightly the threat posed by a potential resort to tactical nuclear weapons or low yield nuclear weapons ..."
- President Zelensky, hours ago

Comment: Putin's nuclear deterrent has worked so far. Based on that, he could reason that the West will not retaliate if he uses nuclear weapons against Ukraine, because the West doesn't want to destroy the planet, and his attacks have been restricted to Ukraine.

A threat like that... is the true face of nature...and so the wise thing to do would be to back away from the threat.

Would an all out world wide nuclear war destroying millions and millions of people and animals be worth standing up for and supporting just one country that half the planet have never even heard of...? That's the sitch we're all in right now. And Putin knows that, because he's an evil genius.

If it was me, I'd just surrender and back off from the threat, especially if it meant saving the entire world from absolute total annihilation and irreversible carnage.. yep, that's what I'd do.

In nature a cornered rat will eventually throw itself full throttle in the face of it's enemy...Putin himself talked about that very scenario.

.

[promethean75]

Here's how it's gonna happen. Low yield nuclear weapons will be used for a while and become normalized forms of warfare. Then the bombs'll get bigger, etc.

[Dontaskme]

Here's how it's gonna happen. Low yield nuclear weapons will be used for a while and become normalized forms of warfare. Then the bombs'll get bigger, etc.

World War 1 was the beginning of the end.

Only the dead have seen the end of war. . and the definition of beauty as "pleasure objectified".

[Belinda]

Dontaskme wrote:

--------the definition of beauty as "pleasure objectified".

I don't understand DAM's context for that claim so I don't know whether or not she claims it's true.

Anyway, it's not the case. Beauty is not beauty unless it's also both true and good.

Pleasure does not meet that criterion, as pleasure is only partly true and on occasion may not be good at all, but thoroughly evil

[Dontaskme]

Dontaskme wrote:

--------the definition of beauty as "pleasure objectified".

I don't understand DAM's context for that claim so I don't know whether or not she claims it's true.

Anyway, it's not the case. Beauty is not beauty unless it's also both true and good.

Pleasure does not meet that criterion, as pleasure is only partly true and on occasion may not be good at all, but thoroughly evil

It simply means, no thing can speak of the reality that is non-conceptual reality without objectifying reality as and through the WORD ...in what then becomes known as KNOWLEDGE in this conception...

Objectified reality as the object of my desire, for my pleasure only.

[Belinda]

Dontaskme wrote:

--------the definition of beauty as "pleasure objectified".

I don't understand DAM's context for that claim so I don't know whether or not she claims it's true.

Anyway, it's not the case. Beauty is not beauty unless it's also both true and good.

Pleasure does not meet that criterion, as pleasure is only partly true and on occasion may not be good at all, but thoroughly evil

It simply means, no thing can speak of the reality that is non-conceptual reality without objectifying reality as and through the WORD ...in what then becomes known as KNOWLEDGE in this conception...

Objectified reality as the object of my desire, for my pleasure only.

You and I seem to be using the word 'pleasure' in incongruent ways. While I like that people enjoy or please themselves, there is nothing in self-pleasing that links directly to truth or beauty. Self-pleasing may on occasion be ugly, unhealthy, lying, or cruel.

[iambiguous]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/20/us/p ... -test.html

'WASHINGTON — President Vladimir V. Putin’s calculated move on Wednesday to test-launch a new intercontinental ballistic missile, declaring it a warning to those in the West who “try to threaten our country,” fed into a growing concern inside the Biden administration: that Russia is now so isolated from the rest of the world that Mr. Putin sees little downside to provocative actions.

Even before the missile launch, American officials and foreign leaders were weighing whether their success in cutting Russia off from much of the global economy, making it a diplomatic pariah, could further fuel Mr. Putin’s willingness to assert his country’s strength. The first launch of the nuclear-capable Sarmat missile was just the latest example of how he has tried to remind the world of his capabilities — in space, in cyberspace and along the coast of Europe — despite early setbacks on the ground in Ukraine.

'“He is now in his own war logic,” Chancellor Karl Nehammer of Austria said last week after meeting Mr. Putin in Russia. He described the Russian president as more determined than ever to counter what he sees as a growing threat from the West and to recapture Russia’s sphere of influence in Eastern Europe.

'In private, American officials have been more direct about the potential for an isolated Russian leader to lash out in further destabilizing ways. “We have been so successful in disconnecting Putin from the global system that he has even more incentive to disrupt it beyond Ukraine,” one senior intelligence official said in a recent conversation, insisting on anonymity to discuss intelligence assessments. “And if he grows increasingly desperate, he may try things that don’t seem rational.”'

Not quite the same as Kim Jong-un's missile tests, is it?

And back to this: the more successful the West is in targeting Russia economically, the greater the possibility that Putin will feel the need to strike back. How far is too far?

It's a dangerous game, to say the least. Some say let Putin reconfigure Russia back into a new rendition of the Soviet Union. But without all that Marxist stuff.

That works for me. As long as Putin doesn't fancy himself another Hitler out to take over the world, better his vision there than a nuclear war everywhere.

It's a brutal and cynical way to look at the world around us, true, but the human condition is, more often than not, a brutal and cynical place to be around in.

[Dontaskme]

Not quite the same as Kim Jong-un's missile tests, is it?

And back to this: the more successful the West is in targeting Russia economically, the greater the possibility that Putin will feel the need to strike back. How far is too far?

But wouldn't the west targeting Russia's economy just backfire on the west .. affecting them too?

It's a dangerous game, to say the least. Some say let Putin reconfigure Russia back into a new rendition of the Soviet Union. But without all that Marxist stuff.

That works for me. As long as Putin doesn't fancy himself another Hitler out to take over the world, better his vision there than a nuclear war everywhere.

It's a brutal and cynical way to look at the world around us, true, but the human condition is, more often than not, a brutal and cynical place to be around in.

So what do you personally think of what NATO's involvement IS ...in all of this tension right NOW?

What exactly is NATO supposed do right now? ..what is NATO's actual purpose or goal...right now?

[iambiguous]

Not quite the same as Kim Jong-un's missile tests, is it?

And back to this: the more successful the West is in targeting Russia economically, the greater the possibility that Putin will feel the need to strike back. How far is too far?

But wouldn't the west targeting Russia's economy just backfire on the west .. affecting them too?

Who really knows. The "law of unintended consequences" can only be on steroids given what might be at stake in Ukraine.

It's a dangerous game, to say the least. Some say let Putin reconfigure Russia back into a new rendition of the Soviet Union. But without all that Marxist stuff.

That works for me. As long as Putin doesn't fancy himself another Hitler out to take over the world, better his vision there than a nuclear war everywhere.

It's a brutal and cynical way to look at the world around us, true, but the human condition is, more often than not, a brutal and cynical place to be around in.

So what do you personally think of what NATO's involvement IS ...in all of this tension right NOW?

What exactly is NATO supposed do right now? ..what is NATO's actual purpose or goal...right now?

Don't ask me. What do I know about NATO? All I know is that they, like you and I and others here, look at the world around them as the embodiment of dasein.

From ILP:

But that would be real crazy. Could some insider let him in on a not too sophisticated equation which doesn't need an Einstein to figure out that denial of craziness could result in an explosive realization of MAD?

But that's the whole point of this thread. What's crazy to you and I doesn't have to be crazy to Putin. Putin is no less the embodiment of dasein than all the rest of us. In a fit of pique he may decide to throw the entire planet into a nuclear Holocaust.

As long as the destruction includes his enemies, he may well be willing to accept his own. And, for all we know, clinically, he may well be crazy.

[iambiguous]

Opinion: Are Biden and Putin agreeing on limits to the war? Just read their statements.
David Ignatius

'Take a careful look at presidential statements from Russia and the United States this week, and you’ll see that the leaders of the two countries appear to be clarifying their goals in Ukraine — as the war shifts to a concentrated, bitter fight for control of the eastern part of the country.

The latest statements by President Vladimir Putin and President Biden don’t preclude a dangerous escalation. But they do offer public descriptions of each side’s goals in ways that may reduce the risk of miscalculation — perhaps setting parameters for what Cold War strategists would have called an “agreed battle.”

Putin’s new message, implicit but unmistakable, is retrenchment. Having failed in his initial push to seize Kyiv and topple the government, he now speaks of controlling the Russian-speaking eastern part of the country, known as Donbas, and neighboring areas along the coast. Biden’s message, by contrast, has become more assertive: stepping up U.S. military aid to Ukraine and vowing to resist Putin’s hegemony over Kyiv, even as he quietly recognizes certain limits.'

This is basically the news account I've been waiting for. An indication that an "understanding" is being reached between Putin and the West on what is "acceptable" and what is not in regard to where the war in Ukraine eventually ends up.

The "peace with honor" realpolitik such that both sides can claim some semblance of victory.

Unless of course he's wrong.

[SpheresOfBalance]

I have the utmost respect for Chomsky, but the entire commentary is about everybody's interests except the Ukrainians.

So the real question is: do the Ukrainians have any kind of say on the disposition of their country, either communist or democratic, or the involvement of western, or any other, influence for that matter? Sure everyone and their brothers uncles may want to be their puppeteers, and at least I believe they should tell "all" their would be puppeteers to go to hell, but everything they are should be what they want for themselves including being a puppet for which ever puppeteers they like best/hate least. So for me that spells Democracy! But how about them?

Was all that they are today their choice? And who has denied them their choice? The West? Russia?

[SpheresOfBalance]

As far as the War goes: "Fear is the mind killer." To hell with Russia's fears.

If I had my way, yep here comes the fantasy, ANY one that killed innocence should immediately be vaporized on the spot, killed, murdered, assassinated instantly by the LIFE "FORCE." Yes, "let the force be with you." Let's face it, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Any/all, that wield such powers know/believe the bravery of being out of range. THEY NEED to be educated as to the things they do, what they are, the true reflection in their mirror, and there's no teacher better than experience. No puny human should attempt to play god. To act as if they could possibly know who deserves to die due to their 'fear' of not wanting to die, to become the very thing they fear, True Insanity. That's been the bane of our legacy, our history since prehistoric times, nothing more than fucking archaic monkeys!! The entire planet should call for Putin's immediate assassination, for the murdering of the innocense. And not just for him, rather for any that kill the innocence of children or the ignorant, in the name of their 'fear' of the same.

These type humans have mince-meant for brains, I like to call them 'brain dead fucks', of course they have absolutely no idea of what ALL THIS is, but what's so utterly pathetic is that they have absolutely no idea what's inside their head. So let's either put them in a rubber room with one of those usually white jackets with the long arms that tie in the back, so they won't kill their therapist out of fear, or if not, put them completely out of their misery, as those insane fucks would do to others that want to live just like they do, only slightly different, lets show them what they do, in all the ways they have done it to others! Lesson learned! A lesson too late, unfortunate for them, just like all their victims.

[Dontaskme]

Don't ask me. What do I know about NATO? All I know is that they, like you and I and others here, look at the world around them as the embodiment of dasein.

Ok, let me just spell it out once and for all...this is not addressed to you personally, it's a message to all readers....WHY on earth...or even what's the actual point in forming WESTERN alliances such as NATO in the aim to protect people against perceived enemies such as the EASTERN superpowers, namely..Russia and China, and maybe North Korea etc...Especially now that we live in an age where very powerful Nuclear Weapons are involved. What would Nato even imagine it could achieve with their alliance...if it's just going to be scared absolutely shitless about ever getting involved in any war against Russia or China ...This invasion of Ukraine is almost like Putin is using as an example to say to the world...no one can mess with Russia..so do not even think about it...rendering NATO totally powerless and a pointless waste of money. It's not that Putin is mad...what's mad is forming military defenses that are never going to be used, that's not intelligent, because there is no winner in an age like today.

That's my point...but then I guess I'm just being ''dense'' as usual.

And what the heck does the ''embodiment of dasein'' have anything to do with the price of banana's, or supposed to mean.

But that's the whole point of this thread. What's crazy to you and I doesn't have to be crazy to Putin. Putin is no less the embodiment of dasein than all the rest of us. In a fit of pique he may decide to throw the entire planet into a nuclear Holocaust.

As long as the destruction includes his enemies, he may well be willing to accept his own. And, for all we know, clinically, he may well be crazy.

It's come to my notice that leaders of countries have to show a kind of crazy side to their nature. To avoid appearing weak.
Boris Johnson prime minister of the UK broke his own covid lockdown rules..but that's ok for him because leaders are allowed to break what is against the law to the minions...As for being crazy - that's just par for the course for world leaders.