The Simple Science (and Logic) of Covid

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Herd immunity can NOT even stop the common cold, which is also a virus that may have crossed from birds to humans a couple of hundred years ago, or even far longer back.

But not many people are killed by the 'common cold' BECAUSE we have natural immunity to its effects.

Human beings, OBVIOUSLY, did NOT have 'natural immunity' when that virus past, or jumped, from other animals to 'you', human being, animals.

'you', human beings, have ONLY evolved to have so-called "natural immunity" to its effects JUST LIKE 'you' WILL NATURALLY evolve to obtain and have 'natural immunity' to COrona VIrus Disease number 19.

And, ONCE AGAIN, I was NEVER EVEN thinking about 'you', human beings, being killed by COVID, in regards to 'herd immunity'. What I was ACTUALLY replying to was the CLAIM about 'herd immunity' would stop the 'continuation of mutations'. I was just POINTING OUT that 'herd immunity' has NOT EVEN stopped the 'common cold' NOR the 'flu', and so NEITHER their 'continuation of mutations'.

'Common cold' and 'flu' KILL 'some' now, and KILLED 'more' when they FIRST entered into human beings, EXACTLY LIKE what HAS and WILL HAPPEN with covid-19. Until a 'natural immunity' evolves AND 'continues to evolve' MORE will get MORE SICK and DIE in the earlier ages than in the later ages.

This is JUST the NATURAL PROCESS, and PROCESS, of ALL diseases/viruses entering the human species, from somewhere, and then 'natural immunity' continually evolving WITH TIME.

That's the difference. No immunity to the cold, and it will likely kill you, just as the common flu was so deadly to those with no natural immunity--like the people that the PC like to refer to as 'indigenous'.

What would 'you', the NON "pc" call "those" PEOPLE, EXACTLY, if NOT 'indigenous'?

Let us NOT FORGET that it is 'you', "vegeteriantaxidermany", who has just 'separate' 'you', human beings or people, by using the "those" word here. You even speak as there is SOME who have 'natural immunity' and then there are THOSE who have 'none'.

'you' ALSO 'separated' "those", people, FROM 'you', people, by CLAIMING that 'you', people, HAVE so-called 'natural immunity' and "those", people, had none.

So, AGAIN, NOW what would 'you' CALL "those", people, that 'you' do NOT associated with 'you', people, if you do NOT want to CALL "them", 'indigenous'.

Here is ANOTHER PRIME EXAMPLE of the UNDERLYING PRESUMPTIONS, and/or RACISM, that LAID DEEP within THOSE adult human beings, BACK in those OLDEN DAYS when this was being written.

What can be CLEARLY SEEN is these adult human beings, when responding to "others", would, on the PRETENCE of responding to some thing said and/or written, just REALLY want to EXPRESS their DEEP UNDERLYING PREOCCUPATIONS.

LOOK, WHERE did you get your OWN so-called 'natural immunity' FROM, EXACTLY, if 'you' were born with it, which is what 'natural immunity' infers or implies?

If it came from your PARENTS, then WHERE did they get their OWN 'natural immunity' from, EXACTLY?

And so and so on?

Now, if 'you' STILL WANT to LOOK AT and SEE 'things' as there are THOSE, people, and then there are US, people, and THOSE people had NO 'natural immunity' but WE people do have 'natural immunity', then so be. But the ONLY WAY that you can do this SUCCESSFULLY is with AGE, NOTHING ELSE.

BUT, if 'you' WANT to START LOOKING AT and SEEING thee ACTUAL Truth of things, then 'you', people (or human beings) are ALL the SAME. And, where 'you', the one known as "vegatariantaxidermy" here got ITS 'natural immunity' FROM was just through evolution, itself, and NOT because 'you' are DIFFERENT somehow. It was YOUR VERY OWN ANCESTORS who that virus jumped to, from other animals, and which SOME DIED of because of this 'jump', in the beginning, in THOSE days. They had NO 'natural immunity', YET, OBVIOUSLY, but THEY were what has MADE 'you'.

Now, AGAIN, what do 'you' CALL 'them', your VERY OWN ANCESTORS, if you DO NOT or WILL NOT CALL 'them' 'indigenous'?

blah blah BLAH blah BLAH BLAH blah blah blah BLAH BLAH blah BLAH blah BLAH blah blah blah BLAH blah etc. etc......

[Age]

At some point in time, we HAVE TO commit to implementing herd immunity.

What does that even mean?

VERY, VERY GOOD QUESTION.

What do we need to do in order to start implementing herd immunity?
Why aren't we implementing it now?

COULD 'herd immunity' just refer to there being MORE in the herd who are MORE immune than there was PREVIOUSLY?

And, just this just occur NATURALLY, AFTER a NEW virus has entered the human species population?

IF 'herd immunity' refers to ALL or EVERY one, of a herd, like the human species herd, being 'immune', then just implementing vaccines until ALL of the herd have received their 'immunity vaccines', then that is WHEN 'herd immunity' is REACHED. But as SOME will NEVER get 'vaccinated', then we ALL just have to WAIT until they get the virus or COrona VIrus Disease and obtain 'immunity' that way.

Also, LET US NOT FORGET, that by the TIME that definition of 'herd immunity' is REACHED, if EVER, the virus WILL 'mutate', and EACH time is DOES, then 'herd immunity' WILL have to START all over again. Just like what HAS HAPPENED, and IS HAPPENING, with things such as the 'common cold' AND 'flu'.

So, DECIDE what 'herd immunity' ACTUALLY MEANS, FIRST, and then, and ONLY THEN, 'you' CAN LOOK and SEE if 'herd immunity' is EVEN ACHIEVABLE, in the first place.

[Age]

But not many people are killed by the 'common cold' BECAUSE we have natural immunity to its effects.

Human beings, OBVIOUSLY, did NOT have 'natural immunity' when that virus past, or jumped, from other animals to 'you', human being, animals.

'you', human beings, have ONLY evolved to have so-called "natural immunity" to its effects JUST LIKE 'you' WILL NATURALLY evolve to obtain and have 'natural immunity' to COrona VIrus Disease number 19.

And, ONCE AGAIN, I was NEVER EVEN thinking about 'you', human beings, being killed by COVID, in regards to 'herd immunity'. What I was ACTUALLY replying to was the CLAIM about 'herd immunity' would stop the 'continuation of mutations'. I was just POINTING OUT that 'herd immunity' has NOT EVEN stopped the 'common cold' NOR the 'flu', and so NEITHER their 'continuation of mutations'.

'Common cold' and 'flu' KILL 'some' now, and KILLED 'more' when they FIRST entered into human beings, EXACTLY LIKE what HAS and WILL HAPPEN with covid-19. Until a 'natural immunity' evolves AND 'continues to evolve' MORE will get MORE SICK and DIE in the earlier ages than in the later ages.

This is JUST the NATURAL PROCESS, and PROCESS, of ALL diseases/viruses entering the human species, from somewhere, and then 'natural immunity' continually evolving WITH TIME.

That's the difference. No immunity to the cold, and it will likely kill you, just as the common flu was so deadly to those with no natural immunity--like the people that the PC like to refer to as 'indigenous'.

What would 'you', the NON "pc" call "those" PEOPLE, EXACTLY, if NOT 'indigenous'?

Let us NOT FORGET that it is 'you', "vegeteriantaxidermany", who has just 'separate' 'you', human beings or people, by using the "those" word here. You even speak as there is SOME who have 'natural immunity' and then there are THOSE who have 'none'.

'you' ALSO 'separated' "those", people, FROM 'you', people, by CLAIMING that 'you', people, HAVE so-called 'natural immunity' and "those", people, had none.

So, AGAIN, NOW what would 'you' CALL "those", people, that 'you' do NOT associated with 'you', people, if you do NOT want to CALL "them", 'indigenous'.

Here is ANOTHER PRIME EXAMPLE of the UNDERLYING PRESUMPTIONS, and/or RACISM, that LAID DEEP within THOSE adult human beings, BACK in those OLDEN DAYS when this was being written.

What can be CLEARLY SEEN is these adult human beings, when responding to "others", would, on the PRETENCE of responding to some thing said and/or written, just REALLY want to EXPRESS their DEEP UNDERLYING PREOCCUPATIONS.

LOOK, WHERE did you get your OWN so-called 'natural immunity' FROM, EXACTLY, if 'you' were born with it, which is what 'natural immunity' infers or implies?

If it came from your PARENTS, then WHERE did they get their OWN 'natural immunity' from, EXACTLY?

And so and so on?

Now, if 'you' STILL WANT to LOOK AT and SEE 'things' as there are THOSE, people, and then there are US, people, and THOSE people had NO 'natural immunity' but WE people do have 'natural immunity', then so be. But the ONLY WAY that you can do this SUCCESSFULLY is with AGE, NOTHING ELSE.

BUT, if 'you' WANT to START LOOKING AT and SEEING thee ACTUAL Truth of things, then 'you', people (or human beings) are ALL the SAME. And, where 'you', the one known as "vegatariantaxidermy" here got ITS 'natural immunity' FROM was just through evolution, itself, and NOT because 'you' are DIFFERENT somehow. It was YOUR VERY OWN ANCESTORS who that virus jumped to, from other animals, and which SOME DIED of because of this 'jump', in the beginning, in THOSE days. They had NO 'natural immunity', YET, OBVIOUSLY, but THEY were what has MADE 'you'.

Now, AGAIN, what do 'you' CALL 'them', your VERY OWN ANCESTORS, if you DO NOT or WILL NOT CALL 'them' 'indigenous'?

blah blah BLAH blah BLAH BLAH blah blah blah BLAH BLAH blah BLAH blah BLAH blah blah blah BLAH blah etc. etc......

You ONLY SAY this because 'you' can NOT YET ANYWAY handle thee Truth. You also SAY this because there is NOT one word that is Wrong in there NOR that you could even begin to REFUTE.

So, LET US LEAVE THIS RIGHT HERE as 'it' IS, for ALL to LOOK AT and SEE.

[Sculptor]

Well, of course, if that's what you believe will work and it's what you would like, obviously, it ought to be forced on everyone else.

You see this is why you havn't got a fucking clue about philosophy.
This sort of idiotic strawman is why you are simply not suited for philosophical discussions.
Jog on!

Discussions about diseases and vaccines are now what philosophy discusses? Who knew?

You do seem to have a problem with satire.

QED- Once again the point flies way over your head.
Do you even know what a strawman is?
If I were still a teacher I'd ask you to underline the strawman in your previous statement.
But I think you missed school completely.

[Sculptor]

Here we hae been impliementing herd immunity for a long time and some clown comes along and tells us we need to be doing that.
Eh?

He thinks we should end all precautions, and let the virus spread unimpeded with no regard to the capacity of the health care services ability to cope.
He simply does not understand the function of the precautions.
No amount of telling him is going to change his mind. He has staked his idea of this pathway and ignores the obvious objections.

Seriously though there may be help.
This is how he started the (ahem!) debate...

by RG1 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:39 pm

Will Continued Social Distancing Ultimately Destroy All Human Life on this Planet?

Try not to laugh!! A least he has modifed his langauge a little.

[henry quirk]

age,

So, if someone had a disease, which they KNEW could kill "others" by just normal breathing, then you would have NO issue AT ALL with that one not staying at home, walking in a store, for example, without a mask on, next to you and/or your family members, breathing on or next to them, and then either you or your family members getting sick and/or dying, correct?

if I'm a'fear'd of beer virus, or any other transmissible, then I ought keep my keister home, or adopt whatever personal practices I believe will protect me

it's dumb and -- to my mind -- immoral to demand everyone else protect me from gettin' sick

and: if you're a'fear'd I might be a hot spot for a transmissable, stay the hell away from me...if I'm too close to you, open your pie hole and tell me to back off, bub

it's dumb and -- to my mind -- immoral that you should demand I protect you from gettin' sick

So much for "others" life, liberty, and property FREEDOMS 'you' go on about, when 'you' CLEARLY HAVE this NOT CARING for ANY one "else" ATTITUDE "henry quirk".

you have no right to my compassion, age...what you have, all you have, is a right to your life, liberty, and property...if these are threatened, defend them

but, henry, the possibility of you infectin' me with beer virus is a threat!

no, it's not...that's paranoia

if you believe I made you sick then take me to court, prove your case, win a settlement

demandin', based solely on possibility, that I must mask, must lock down, must accept the jab is akin to guilty till proven innocent

and: where does it stop?

can I demand all drivers refrain from bein' on the roads when I am cuz of the possibility one of them might crash into me?

can I demand McDonald's shut down the fryer when I'm in-restaurant cuz mebbe, somehow, I might get burned?

can I demand that obese folks stay home when I'm out & about cuz of the possibility one if then will stroke out in my presence and shock me?

[Sculptor]

age,

So, if someone had a disease, which they KNEW could kill "others" by just normal breathing, then you would have NO issue AT ALL with that one not staying at home, walking in a store, for example, without a mask on, next to you and/or your family members, breathing on or next to them, and then either you or your family members getting sick and/or dying, correct?

That only works if 1. They know they might spread the disease, 2 They give a shit that they might spread a disase, 3. They even beleive that Covid is real and not a massive lie on behaelf of the gummint.
Sadly even people who give a damn and accept that covid is a danger can't tell, day to day, if they can spread the disease.
And also sadly there are plenty of clowns that don't beleive it is real and others that don't give a shit about themselves or others

if I'm a'fear'd of beer virus, or any other transmissible, then I ought keep my keister home, or adopt whatever personal practices I believe will protect me.

True for you.

it's dumb and -- to my mind -- immoral to demand everyone else protect me from gettin' sick .

True if everyone was like you. But maybe you should use your imagination?
If a person negligently gets seriously ill, why should they be able to get help from the overstressed and over stretched health system?
Surely they should be allowed to die and not take a bed in hospital that could be used for someone who has had their shots and taken precautions??

and: if you're a'fear'd I might be a hot spot for a transmissable, stay the hell away from me...if I'm too close to you, open your pie hole and tell me to back off, bub

FIne, but you know damn well there are plenty of people that aint gonna do that.

it's dumb and -- to my mind -- immoral that you should demand I protect you from gettin' sick

Not really.
Rules are made for everyone, not just you. There are other people on earth besides yourself.

So much for "others" life, liberty, and property FREEDOMS 'you' go on about, when 'you' CLEARLY HAVE this NOT CARING for ANY one "else" ATTITUDE "henry quirk".

Gibberish.

you have no right to my compassion, age...what you have, all you have, is a right to your life, liberty, and property...if these are threatened, defend them.

No you can fuck off. But don't come into my shop spreading your shitty germs.
Because I have a right to protect myslef from you.
And the government has the right to protect society against people who don't give a shit and are spreading a fatal disease.

...

You can see the exact moment Herny separated his brain from his sense of reason....

can I demand that obese folks stay home when I'm out & about cuz of the possibility one if then will stroke out in my presence and shock me?

... to a state of pure stupidity.

[henry quirk]

sculptor,

If a person negligently gets seriously ill, why should they be able to get help from the overstressed and over stretched health system?

damn good question: should the morbidly obese get treatment from an overstressed and over stretched health system? should the drug addict get treatment from an overstressed and over stretched health system? generally, should a person who has willfully and knowingly neglected or abused his health get treatment from overstressed and over stretched health system? Surely they should be allowed to die and not take a bed in hospital that could be used for someone who has not neglected or abused themselves?

I suppose the answer depends on how seriously a practitioner takes this...

I swear by Apollo Healer, by Asclepius, by Hygieia, by Panacea, and by all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will carry out, according to my ability and judgment, this oath and this indenture.

To hold my teacher in this art equal to my own parents; to make him partner in my livelihood; when he is in need of money to share mine with him; to consider his family as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they want to learn it, without fee or indenture; to impart precept, oral instruction, and all other instruction to my own sons, the sons of my teacher, and to indentured pupils who have taken the Healer’s oath, but to nobody else.

I will use those dietary regimens which will benefit my patients according to my greatest ability and judgment, and I will do no harm or injustice to them. Neither will I administer a poison to anybody when asked to do so, nor will I suggest such a course. Similarly I will not give to a woman a pessary to cause abortion. But I will keep pure and holy both my life and my art. I will not use the knife, not even, verily, on sufferers from stone, but I will give place to such as are craftsmen therein.

Into whatsoever houses I enter, I will enter to help the sick, and I will abstain from all intentional wrong-doing and harm, especially from abusing the bodies of man or woman, bond or free. And whatsoever I shall see or hear in the course of my profession, as well as outside my profession in my intercourse with men, if it be what should not be published abroad, I will never divulge, holding such things to be holy secrets.

Now if I carry out this oath, and break it not, may I gain for ever reputation among all men for my life and for my art; but if I break it and forswear myself, may the opposite befall me. – Translation by W.H.S. Jones.

[RCSaunders]

If I were still a teacher ...

That explains a lot.

[Sculptor]

If I were still a teacher ...

That explains a lot.

No, idiot, it does not.
Once again you make a fool of yourself.

[Sculptor]

sculptor,

If a person negligently gets seriously ill, why should they be able to get help from the overstressed and over stretched health system?

damn good question: should the morbidly obese get treatment from an overstressed and over stretched health system? should the drug addict get treatment from an overstressed and over stretched health system? generally, should a person who has willfully and knowingly neglected or abused his health get treatment from overstressed and over stretched health system? Surely they should be allowed to die and not take a bed in hospital that could be used for someone who has not neglected or abused themselves?

I suppose the answer depends on how seriously a practitioner takes this...

I swear by Apollo Healer, by Asclepius, by Hygieia, by Panacea, and by all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will carry out, according to my ability and judgment, this oath and this indenture.

To hold my teacher in this art equal to my own parents; to make him partner in my livelihood; when he is in need of money to share mine with him; to consider his family as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they want to learn it, without fee or indenture; to impart precept, oral instruction, and all other instruction to my own sons, the sons of my teacher, and to indentured pupils who have taken the Healer’s oath, but to nobody else.

I will use those dietary regimens which will benefit my patients according to my greatest ability and judgment, and I will do no harm or injustice to them. Neither will I administer a poison to anybody when asked to do so, nor will I suggest such a course. Similarly I will not give to a woman a pessary to cause abortion. But I will keep pure and holy both my life and my art. I will not use the knife, not even, verily, on sufferers from stone, but I will give place to such as are craftsmen therein.

Into whatsoever houses I enter, I will enter to help the sick, and I will abstain from all intentional wrong-doing and harm, especially from abusing the bodies of man or woman, bond or free. And whatsoever I shall see or hear in the course of my profession, as well as outside my profession in my intercourse with men, if it be what should not be published abroad, I will never divulge, holding such things to be holy secrets.

Now if I carry out this oath, and break it not, may I gain for ever reputation among all men for my life and for my art; but if I break it and forswear myself, may the opposite befall me. – Translation by W.H.S. Jones.

I was being rhetorical.
You would do better to address the main points of my post and not the amusing little aside.

[RCSaunders]

Human beings, OBVIOUSLY, did NOT have 'natural immunity' when that virus past, or jumped, from other animals to 'you', human being, animals.

If human beings only have viruses that, "jumped," from other animals, where did the animals get them?

[Don't bother answering. The question is rhetorical meant only to illustrate the absurdity of the assumption.]

[RCSaunders]

And the government has the right to protect society against people who don't give a shit and are spreading a fatal disease.

The government's way of protecting people is to punish before the act. One doesn't protect others from harm by punishing everyone who, "might," harm someone else. It's like punishing an entire society or class for what some people do.

If harry doesn't have Covid, he certainly cannot spread it to anyone else. There is no reason he should be restricted, (or jabbed, since it obviously doesn't prevent anyone from getting the disease).

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Human beings, OBVIOUSLY, did NOT have 'natural immunity' when that virus past, or jumped, from other animals to 'you', human being, animals.

If human beings only have viruses that, "jumped," from other animals, where did the animals get them?

[Don't bother answering. The question is rhetorical meant only to illustrate the absurdity of the assumption.]

Then you would need to understand how viruses originate. That particular virus 'jumped' to humans because of appalling, unhygienic conditions, which enabled humans to make contact with a virus that would otherwise have been contained in its own host species. I suppose other animals have more common sense and natural hygiene than humans, plus, many of these animals are rare--not the spreading, cancerous carbuncle that humans have become.

[Age]

Human beings, OBVIOUSLY, did NOT have 'natural immunity' when that virus past, or jumped, from other animals to 'you', human being, animals.

If human beings only have viruses that, "jumped," from other animals, where did the animals get them?

[Don't bother answering. The question is rhetorical meant only to illustrate the absurdity of the assumption.]

What is the ALLEGED 'assumption' here?

Viruses come from WHEREVER they come from.

BUT WHERE they COME FROM has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHATSOEVER AT ALL to do with what I was SAYING and TALKING ABOUT, as can be CLEARLY SEEN.

LOL I NEVER even used the 'only' word in relation to 'viruses', and human beings, and where viruses come from.

'you', adult human beings, REALLY do TWIST and DISTORT 'things', and this is because 'you' do NOT LOOK AT and SEE 'things' from thee Truly OPEN perspective. Instead 'you' LOOK from ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEFS, INSTEAD.