When a woman takes the morning after pill is that MURDER?
I don't know.
Your turn.
When the 'thing' is given a birth certificate
So, before it leaves a woman's body, it's not a person, not at any point durin' pregnancy, yeah?
Right up to and past delivery, it's not a person, right?
It's only when The State sez it's a person that it's a person: that's what you're sayin', yeah?
Up-thread you say My personal opinion on such late abortions is getting close to what you would term 'murder', but if what a woman carries is not a person then how can abortin' be close to murder at any point durin' pregnancy?
So, before it leaves a woman's body, it's not a person, not at any point durin' pregnancy, yeah?
Right up to and past delivery, it's not a person, right?
It's only when The State sez it's a person that it's a person: that's what you're sayin', yeah?
Up-thread you say My personal opinion on such late abortions is getting close to what you would term 'murder', but if what a woman carries is not a person then how can abortin' be close to murder at any point durin' pregnancy?
The point was satirical, something USAdians have a hard time distinguishing - note the:-
attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:24 pm
..and again, there is a difference between a LOVING couple that want to have a child.
Fascinating. Am I to understand that you are saying that the morality of murder depends on whether the victim is loved, and by whom? Surely you have not thought much about what you typed. How does this standard distinguish between an unborn baby and an unruly 14 year old? "We don't love the rugrat, let's kill it with the State's blessing."
attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:48 pm
I.C. you are unethical when it comes to what should be an honest and open Philosophy debate by removing pertinent points, and insisting only your own are worthy of discussion - renders you weak and cowardly since you clearly know you have no rebuttal to the points I have made.
What "points" Atto? I don't see anything worthy of that name.
You haven't even said how you know what a baby is. And I know why: you can't. There's no reason why a baby ten seconds prior to birth is anything less than a baby ten seconds later. And you know it. You don't like it, maybe, but you know it.
attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:24 pm
..and again, there is a difference between a LOVING couple that want to have a child.
Fascinating. Am I to understand that you are saying that the morality of murder depends on whether the victim is loved, and by whom? Surely you have not thought much about what you typed. How does this standard distinguish between an unborn baby and an unruly 14 year old? "We don't love the rugrat, let's kill it with the State's blessing."
Please read the points I have made on the previous page regarding a SOUL. Should a woman that has been raped be considered a murderer when she terminates her pregnancy?
attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:48 pm
I.C. you are unethical when it comes to what should be an honest and open Philosophy debate by removing pertinent points, and insisting only your own are worthy of discussion - renders you weak and cowardly since you clearly know you have no rebuttal to the points I have made.
What "points" Atto? I don't see anything worthy of that name.
What you consider not worthy of debate is not the way to have a philosophical discussion, AND YOU KNOW IT - that you are unethical, ergo, unworthy of having debates on this platform.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:26 amYou haven't even said how you know what a baby is. And I know why: you can't. There's no reason why a baby ten seconds prior to birth is anything less than a baby ten seconds later. And you know it. You don't like it, maybe, but you know it.
I have stated to you my POV on this, that basically I am in agreement with you, please re-read my post on that. AND Henry, in answer to your question, I suggest you do the same.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:26 amYou haven't even said how you know what a baby is. And I know why: you can't. There's no reason why a baby ten seconds prior to birth is anything less than a baby ten seconds later. And you know it. You don't like it, maybe, but you know it.
I have stated to you my POV on this, that basically I am in agreement with you, please re-read my post on that. *AND Henry, in answer to your question, I suggest you do the same.
Immanuel Can wrote:So give your evidence that a child is not a child. Let's start with the third trimester: how do you know the entity in the womb ten seconds before birth is not a person. but the entity in the room ten seconds later is, and is in every possible sense of the word? What's your evidence?
My personal opinion on such late abortions is getting close to what you would term 'murder' - there is a point in time that the developed foetus has receptors developed to pain for example.
So what a woman carries becomes a person in the last three months of pregnancy, or in the latter part of the last three months, or just before birth?
attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:48 pm
I.C. you are unethical when it comes to what should be an honest and open Philosophy debate by removing pertinent points, and insisting only your own are worthy of discussion - renders you weak and cowardly since you clearly know you have no rebuttal to the points I have made.
What "points" Atto? I don't see anything worthy of that name.
What you consider not worthy of debate is not the way to have a philosophical discussion,
What I know is that offering that which is not worthy of debate is not the way to have a philosophical discussion.
I have stated to you my POV on this, that basically I am in agreement with you,
Well, no.
You've agreed that killing third trimester babies is a morally suspect activity. That's a start, maybe. But abortion is pretty evidently a whole lot worse than merely suspect.
Do you have an answer for how we tell when a child is a person or not?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:26 am
What "points" Atto? I don't see anything worthy of that name.
What you consider not worthy of debate is not the way to have a philosophical discussion,
What I know is that offering that which is not worthy of debate is not the way to have a philosophical discussion.
I have stated to you my POV on this, that basically I am in agreement with you,
Well, no.
You've agreed that killing third trimester babies is a morally suspect activity. That's a start, maybe. But abortion is pretty evidently a whole lot worse than merely suspect.
Do you have an answer for how we tell when a child is a person or not?
This is getting rather hilarious.
Embryo vs. Fetus: The Stages of Pregnancy - MedicineNethttps://www.medicinenet.com
What is a fetus? After the embryonic period has ended at the end of the 10th week of pregnancy, the embryo is now considered a fetus. A fetus is a developing baby beginning in the 11th week of pregnancy.
For me, a "person" is someone that is no longer requiring support via an umbilical cord.
So, when a woman takes the morning after pill - is she a possible murderer?
For me, a "person" is someone that is no longer requiring support via an umbilical cord.
Viability.
Too bad, then, for paraplegics, folks in iron lungs, those dependent on dialysis and other regular life-sustainin' procedures: not a one of them is viable and -- by your reckoning -- not persons.
henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:12 amFor me, a "person" is someone that is no longer requiring support via an umbilical cord.
Viability.
Too bad, then, for paraplegics, folks in iron lungs, those dependent on dialysis and other regular life-sustainin' procedures: not a one of them is viable and -- by your reckoning -- not persons.
FFS. Please look up the difference between an iron lung and dialysis machines to that of an umbilical cord.