solving language
solving language
In order to get humanity's problems ironed out, we're going to have to solve this communication problem. There's no way to create a perfect language and it will evolve right away anyway, but we have to have one language for everyone, so let's get the principles straight.
What are the necessary and sufficient conditions of a language for everyone?
What is the proper order of prioritizing those conditions?
Is there any currently existing language that meets these priorities?
If not, is there any currently existing language that can be modified to do so?
Who will begin the design process?
What are the necessary and sufficient conditions of a language for everyone?
What is the proper order of prioritizing those conditions?
Is there any currently existing language that meets these priorities?
If not, is there any currently existing language that can be modified to do so?
Who will begin the design process?
Last edited by Advocate on Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- henry quirk
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the design is done...
Esperanto
- RCSaunders
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Re: solving language
First of all, who is, "we," and whatever (or whoever) you mean by that we, what makes it their business to solve anyone else's probems. Have you asked humanity if they really want you to solve whatever problems you think they have?
Secondly, what do you think the problem with language is? Is there something about knowledge you don't like? The whole purpose of language is knowledge, the means of identifying and holding one's understanding of what is and what its nature is. I think you probably make the mistake most philosophers make, thinking the main purpose of language is communication--IT ISN'T!
The main purpose of language is knowledge. A second, derivative, purpose of language is communication. You have to first know something before you can communicate it. As far I can see, everyone who chooses to is having no problem with using language to learn, and when they choose to, to communicate.
Thirdly, why should there be only one language? Are you too lazy to learn another one. Do you want to deprive individuals of being able to choose which language or languages they would like to learn and use? Do you also recommend that there only be one kind of food, one kind of dress, one kind of entertainment?
There is no problem of humanity. There are only individual human problems.
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Re: solving language
I think that English is good enough.Advocate wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:38 pm In order to get humanity's problems ironed out, we're going to have to solve this communication problem. There's no way to create a perfect language and it will evolve right away anyway, but we have to have one language for everyone, so let's get the principles straight.
What are the necessary and sufficient conditions of a language for everyone?
What is the proper order of prioritizing those conditions?
Is there any currently existing language that meets these priorities?
If not, is there any currently existing language that can be modified to do so?
Who will begin the design process?
- RCSaunders
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- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
- Contact:
Re: solving language
It was.bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:26 pmI think that English is good enough.Advocate wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:38 pm In order to get humanity's problems ironed out, we're going to have to solve this communication problem. There's no way to create a perfect language and it will evolve right away anyway, but we have to have one language for everyone, so let's get the principles straight.
What are the necessary and sufficient conditions of a language for everyone?
What is the proper order of prioritizing those conditions?
Is there any currently existing language that meets these priorities?
If not, is there any currently existing language that can be modified to do so?
Who will begin the design process?
Almost no one can speak, write or understand it anymore. Sad!
Ask the next hundred English speakers you know what the eight principles parts of speech are, what a gerund, infinitive, or participle is, what a subject and predicate are, what verb agreement means, what the antecendent of a pronoun is, or what the almost-lost subjunctive mode is? Ask them why almost-lost is hyphenated. Good luck finding even one who can answer those basic questions of their own language.
Re: solving language
[quote=RCSaunders post_id=514120 time=1623789333 user_id=16196]
[quote=bahman post_id=514114 time=1623781606 user_id=12593]
[quote=Advocate post_id=508849 time=1619390316 user_id=15238]
In order to get humanity's problems ironed out, we're going to have to solve this communication problem. There's no way to create a perfect language and it will evolve right away anyway, but we have to have one language for everyone, so let's get the principles straight.
What are the necessary and sufficient conditions of a language for everyone?
What is the proper order of prioritizing those conditions?
Is there any currently existing language that meets these priorities?
If not, is there any currently existing language that can be modified to do so?
Who will begin the design process?
[/quote]
I think that English is good enough.
[/quote]
It was.
Almost no one can speak, write or understand it anymore. Sad!
Ask the next hundred English speakers you know what the eight principles parts of speech are, what a gerund, infinitive, or participle is, what a subject and predicate are, what verb agreement means, what the antecendent of a pronoun is, or what the almost-lost subjunctive mode is? Ask them why almost-lost is hyphenated. Good luck finding even one who can answer those basic questions of their own language.
[/quote]
Those are basic questions that basically never come up, so they're basically a hobby, not useful knowledge. We're inundated with things we ought to know and the minimum is the default for any given subject.
[quote=bahman post_id=514114 time=1623781606 user_id=12593]
[quote=Advocate post_id=508849 time=1619390316 user_id=15238]
In order to get humanity's problems ironed out, we're going to have to solve this communication problem. There's no way to create a perfect language and it will evolve right away anyway, but we have to have one language for everyone, so let's get the principles straight.
What are the necessary and sufficient conditions of a language for everyone?
What is the proper order of prioritizing those conditions?
Is there any currently existing language that meets these priorities?
If not, is there any currently existing language that can be modified to do so?
Who will begin the design process?
[/quote]
I think that English is good enough.
[/quote]
It was.
Almost no one can speak, write or understand it anymore. Sad!
Ask the next hundred English speakers you know what the eight principles parts of speech are, what a gerund, infinitive, or participle is, what a subject and predicate are, what verb agreement means, what the antecendent of a pronoun is, or what the almost-lost subjunctive mode is? Ask them why almost-lost is hyphenated. Good luck finding even one who can answer those basic questions of their own language.
[/quote]
Those are basic questions that basically never come up, so they're basically a hobby, not useful knowledge. We're inundated with things we ought to know and the minimum is the default for any given subject.
Re: solving language
It is.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:35 pmIt was.bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:26 pmI think that English is good enough.Advocate wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:38 pm In order to get humanity's problems ironed out, we're going to have to solve this communication problem. There's no way to create a perfect language and it will evolve right away anyway, but we have to have one language for everyone, so let's get the principles straight.
What are the necessary and sufficient conditions of a language for everyone?
What is the proper order of prioritizing those conditions?
Is there any currently existing language that meets these priorities?
If not, is there any currently existing language that can be modified to do so?
Who will begin the design process?
You are not serious. The human population would die if they cannot understand each other through language.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:35 pm Almost no one can speak, write or understand it anymore. Sad!
You are talking about formulating the language. It is nice to know them but people don't need them since they understand what do you mean through the language. They learn the language through conditioning.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:35 pm Ask the next hundred English speakers you know what the eight principles parts of speech are, what a gerund, infinitive, or participle is, what a subject and predicate are, what verb agreement means, what the antecendent of a pronoun is, or what the almost-lost subjunctive mode is? Ask them why almost-lost is hyphenated. Good luck finding even one who can answer those basic questions of their own language.
- RCSaunders
- Posts: 4704
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
- Contact:
Re: solving language
When will you start learning it?
Blabbering gibberish using some English words is not speaking the English language.
Re: solving language
I learned a lot a long time ago. I have a bad memory so I forgot a lot too. I use Grammarly to correct my writing. I have a couple of threads about the language. Currently, I am thinking that how abstract ideas, including language formulation, can form from conditioning.
Do you have any problem understanding me?RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:16 pm Blabbering gibberish using some English words is not speaking the English language.
Re: solving language
I think the main reason why there are communication problems is that language is ambiguous.
Its not the language as such, but all the different meanings, all the possible interpretations that create misunderstandings (and lead to problems).
Remove ambiguity and you have solved the communication problem - but you have also removed the freedom of creative/personal interpretation.
Mathematics has removed ambiguity to a degree - yet there still seem to be many different personal interpretations (at least to more complex problems than just 1+2=3) - anyway I am not mathematically minded, but it seems that, to achieve one goal (communication without misunderstandings) one has to sacrifice many other things that humanity holds dear (personal opinions etc etc).
Re: solving language
[quote=AlexW post_id=514253 time=1623884202 user_id=15862]
[quote=Advocate post_id=508849 time=1619390316 user_id=15238]
In order to get humanity's problems ironed out, we're going to have to solve this communication problem.
[/quote]
I think the main reason why there are communication problems is that language is ambiguous.
Its not the language as such, but all the different meanings, all the possible interpretations that create misunderstandings (and lead to problems).
Remove ambiguity and you have solved the communication problem - but you have also removed the freedom of creative/personal interpretation.
Mathematics has removed ambiguity to a degree - yet there still seem to be many different personal interpretations (at least to more complex problems than just 1+2=3) - anyway I am not mathematically minded, but it seems that, to achieve one goal (communication without misunderstandings) one has to sacrifice many other things that humanity holds dear (personal opinions etc etc).
[/quote]
Science is rigor. Logic is a subset of science that always replicates. Math is a subset of logic that deals with quantity. Quantity is recursive boundary conditions.
[quote=Advocate post_id=508849 time=1619390316 user_id=15238]
In order to get humanity's problems ironed out, we're going to have to solve this communication problem.
[/quote]
I think the main reason why there are communication problems is that language is ambiguous.
Its not the language as such, but all the different meanings, all the possible interpretations that create misunderstandings (and lead to problems).
Remove ambiguity and you have solved the communication problem - but you have also removed the freedom of creative/personal interpretation.
Mathematics has removed ambiguity to a degree - yet there still seem to be many different personal interpretations (at least to more complex problems than just 1+2=3) - anyway I am not mathematically minded, but it seems that, to achieve one goal (communication without misunderstandings) one has to sacrifice many other things that humanity holds dear (personal opinions etc etc).
[/quote]
Science is rigor. Logic is a subset of science that always replicates. Math is a subset of logic that deals with quantity. Quantity is recursive boundary conditions.
Re: solving language
all languages are "good enough" per histroy English - due to the Brit empire - has made Englsih the universal language.Advocate wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:38 pm In order to get humanity's problems ironed out, we're going to have to solve this communication problem. There's no way to create a perfect language and it will evolve right away anyway, but we have to have one language for everyone, so let's get the principles straight.
What are the necessary and sufficient conditions of a language for everyone?
What is the proper order of prioritizing those conditions?
Is there any currently existing language that meets these priorities?
If not, is there any currently existing language that can be modified to do so?
Who will begin the design process?
again any would work - history chose english as the one global language.
it serves as well as any other would have.
- your point?
Re: solving language
disagree the function of language is to communicate. per that mandate all languages wer good enough, english won out per histroy - i have a huge problem with its spelling - which is not phonetic enough - and i offered a nice quick fix to make english spelling confomr with phonitic 3 yrs ago right here - but i'm just a no-body - so though apt and would make english phonetic pr its written form - will never come to be. sadly. ;-/.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:31 pmFirst of all, who is, "we," and whatever (or whoever) you mean by that we, what makes it their business to solve anyone else's probems. Have you asked humanity if they really want you to solve whatever problems you think they have?
Secondly, what do you think the problem with language is? Is there something about knowledge you don't like? The whole purpose of language is knowledge, the means of identifying and holding one's understanding of what is and what its nature is. I think you probably make the mistake most philosophers make, thinking the main purpose of language is communication--IT ISN'T!
The main purpose of language is knowledge. A second, derivative, purpose of language is communication. You have to first know something before you can communicate it. As far I can see, everyone who chooses to is having no problem with using language to learn, and when they choose to, to communicate.
Thirdly, why should there be only one language? Are you too lazy to learn another one. Do you want to deprive individuals of being able to choose which language or languages they would like to learn and use? Do you also recommend that there only be one kind of food, one kind of dress, one kind of entertainment?
There is no problem of humanity. There are only individual human problems.
Re: solving language
it is - but per my (i wish i was world dictator and then would make englsih phonetic!!!!!!!) viww.bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:26 pmI think that English is good enough.Advocate wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:38 pm In order to get humanity's problems ironed out, we're going to have to solve this communication problem. There's no way to create a perfect language and it will evolve right away anyway, but we have to have one language for everyone, so let's get the principles straight.
What are the necessary and sufficient conditions of a language for everyone?
What is the proper order of prioritizing those conditions?
Is there any currently existing language that meets these priorities?
If not, is there any currently existing language that can be modified to do so?
Who will begin the design process?
its the defacto universal language - but its spellig is fucked up - hense my "fix" offered by me 3 yrs ago in this area of the fourm. - its clear and thoughfull - so find it if you wish to - i hope you do so we can talk about it - but as said before i'm just a no-body so ven though my "fix" would make - force Englsih to be fully phonetic - being a no-body, it shall not be fixed sadly.