Understanding the religious mindset

[Immanuel Can]

I know I'm going to regret asking this, but,...

...why in the world do humans need Jesus to "save" them?

Save them from what?
_______

Death...in all its forms.

[seeds]

I know I'm going to regret asking this, but,...

...why in the world do humans need Jesus to "save" them?

Save them from what?

Death...in all its forms.

Why have they been condemned to death in the first place?

In other words, what did humans do that warrants the form of death that only Jesus can save them from?
_______

[Lacewing]

I know I'm going to regret asking this, but,...

...why in the world do humans need Jesus to "save" them?

Save them from what?
_______

Death...in all its forms.

According to... you? Can you show where else this interpretation exists?

[gaffo]

the isue should b addresed

That's your view. You may think so.

But just because a person thinks God "should" do something, that does not obligate Him to do it. What is right is that you and I should know what pertains to us, in regard to salvation. You are not responsible -- or even able -- to know about another person's situation. You can only know what they tell you, and a baby can tell you nothing.

That's how it is.

I agree fully, just pointing out an issue - problem i have in your book - and only one - but the manin one i have a moral problem with.

it is not tied to why i rejct your God's Son - i reject him (but affirm his message - love your nieghbor) - as God/God's son due to lack of proof.

as statd a million tims i am ok with agreeing to disagreeing because i know you are a good man wiht good intent - so i value discussion - but not beating a dad horse - so this particualr we know each others view an dso have no interest in discussion of this particular farther.


--------what i would like is a discussion of the nature of Ben Eliazar (ya that Waler Miller Jr work 60 yrs ago) - and even what are your favovorite biblworks and why so - I've benn asking you the latter for 2 yrs now.

and as you know my fav - ive been saying so for the last 3 yrs - are:

1. Amos
2. Jonah
3 Mark
4 Job


welcome discussion per this latter (fav works and why). all talked out on babis fate - i leavr them and me up to your God.

[gaffo]

what about Ben Eleazar - you just not willing to listen to the story so we can talk about the nature of his character? the immortal wondering jew.

You asked me about the Governors General, a conversation that was more effort than it was worth. I'm not willing to be drawn into a series of irrelevancies, of course. Life's too short. I may be more interested in this topic, if I eventually get to it; but you'll have to give me a reason to think I ought to invest the kind of time you're asking for, because you're asking for a substantial chunk.

What would that reason be?

I askd aboutg the GG due to knowing they had power in the 70's - not knowing - as you told me their power was removed via the Chargter of Freedoms and rights in 82 - i disscussion about the GG powers was in good faith, i just lacked the knowledg that the 82 document removed it via Canada (I would love for an Ausie/Kiwi to inform me o fthe Rule of LAw in tier land per the GG's power today).

I aksed you about your view of Ben eliezer's nature - what he represents per the author (who bombed Monte Cassino in ww2 and has much guilt of that) - becasue his noval - and the NPR 1980 work o fiit - i are both excellent and works for "Thinking men" - there are other characters like Bishop Poalo, Misis Grail, and Rachel - all reppresent someting about the human condidition.

his work is up ther ewith Sheakspere/Dante (talking about the human condition) -buts its Sci fiction - so per cultural bias per the view o fth general puplic - then and now - is all about ray guns.

tell that to Bradburry, Heinland, Sheckley, Azimov, Silverburg!!!!!!!!! - and 10's of others then and now - authors that wroke stories about the universal human condition in an imaginary future.

I'd really like you to listen to the entire series and for you to give me your view of Ben (and Rachal - for i think she represents something i do not quite get either - outside of the innocence of yougth - i tink there is more to it) - you have a mind and a heart and i welcome learning from you your views of at last those two characters.


but i can't if you refuse to listen to the entire 10 hrs series - and you can't just listen to parts - that dos an injustice to tMiller's work - so again i know you have a mind and a heart and wish todisscus Walter Miller'sJrs work with you - s so i may learn from your perspective of the story and the characters.

I can't do that if you refuse to listen to the show!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gaffo]

BTW - Radiodramas are like movies - you can't just listent to them in the background lik emusic - you have to sit and do noting outisde of listening - ys i now in the morder digital world no one have any attention span (why the 70's movies with a stroy and character dev and actual plot and good scritp - are not replaced with with no character dev, no plot and a bunch of CGI and fight ccenes.

and why th remake of te original Palnet of the Apes - a social commentary about "the church' and bias/racism per the humans - was ignore in all the latter remake.

dumbed down.


so Radio drams date to a time before the audience aws dumb - so that means if you have an interest in a true artform forgotten today - you have to have an attention span and do nothing but sit in your chiar and listen to the story.
Radiodrams are not music - you can multitask on the latter - not the former.

BTW X-Minus Ono was one of the best radiodrams ever done and it was done tihe 50's - sci fiction - all about the human condition - miinimal sould effects - since "aural sould effects = Gtoday's CGI = and not relivent i fyouthe story is good.

[gaffo]

BTW - Radiodramas are like movies - you can't just listen to them in the background like music - you have to sit and do noting outisde of listening - ys i now in the modern digital world no one have any attention span (why the 70's movies with a stroy and character dev and actual plot and good scritp - are now replaced with with no character dev, no plot and a bunch of CGI and fight ccenes.

and why th remake of te original Palnet of the Apes - a social commentary about "the church' and bias/racism per the apes - was ignore in all the latter remake.

dumbed down.


so Radio drams date to a time before the audience was not dumb - so that means if you have an interest in a true artform forgotten today - you have to have an attention span and do nothing but sit in your chiar and listen to the story.
Radiodrams are not music - you can' multitask on the latter - not the former.

BTW X-Minus Ono was one of the best radiodrams ever done and it was done tihe 50's - sci fiction - all about the human condition - miinimal sould effects - since "aural sould effects = Gtoday's CGI = and not relivent if the story is good.

not only Planet of the apes, but Roller Ball rmake sucked balls and lacked the entire social commentary - in fact anyhting after the 70's per remakes sucks and lack any social statements. and the audience sems to love the spectical rrather than demand thinking about life - just shows how lost morderamercan culture is.


it rare but sometimes rmake are bette than the original (all prior to the dumbing down of america post 1980) - such as Te Body Snatchers - the 50's movie was good but the 70's version was much better - adn a top 20 o fall time imop.

Manchurain Candidadate? - never bothere to watch the 00's version - i knoew the 60's version was top 20 o fall time - and assume the remake was unworhty of my 10 buck entry to see (there are trillions of other exampels - fright night, the hitcher, etc........)

there is a trend - teh trend is post 1980 movie started to suck, an dTV - though there was the 4th networks - UPN/Fox - that had no budget but tallent and so offered The Nowwhere Man, Space above and beyond,, Firefly.......all know mainline conglomeart monopl;oy media - all headed by ban counters and the least inventive - so just check the boxs - trangener check, gay check/etc.....(netficks is aouful now BTW in this regard) - foreget univerasality of man forget character dev, just check the boxes and add CGI and ingore a real plot and you make millions!!!!!!!!!

the "fast food" of cenema" - but now that the sheople have no taste they slop it up like honey and remain ignorant of quality - we we get what we desirv sadly.

[Immanuel Can]

Death...in all its forms.

Why have they been condemned to death in the first place?

In other words, what did humans do that warrants the form of death that only Jesus can save them from?
_______

It's all forms of death, actually. Not just one or two.

And death is what always happens when one alienates oneself from the Source of life.

[Immanuel Can]

I know I'm going to regret asking this, but,...

...why in the world do humans need Jesus to "save" them?

Save them from what?
_______

Death...in all its forms.

According to... you? Can you show where else this interpretation exists?

Yes.

Try Romans 3.

[Immanuel Can]

so this particualr we know each others view an dso have no interest in discussion of this particular farther.

Then I'll let it drop.

--------what i would like is a discussion of the nature of Ben Eliazar

Well, give me a reason why I should be interested in him.

[seeds]

Death...in all its forms.

Why have they been condemned to death in the first place?

In other words, what did humans do that warrants the form of death that only Jesus can save them from?
_______

It's all forms of death, actually. Not just one or two.

And death is what always happens when one alienates oneself from the Source of life.

Immanuel Can, when someone insinuates that another person doesn't understand something,...

(in this case - the doctrine of "original sin")

...then it seems only fitting that the one doing the insinuating (you) provide the ignorant person (me) with an accurate definition of what the doctrine actually means.

Well, I'm waiting.

Furthermore, I am especially interested in your explanation of why it's called "original" sin?
_______

[Lacewing]

Death...in all its forms.

According to... you? Can you show where else this interpretation exists?

Yes.

Try Romans 3.

Can you please show what you are specifically referring to?

[Belinda]

I know I'm going to regret asking this, but,...

...why in the world do humans need Jesus to "save" them?

Save them from what?
_______

Death...in all its forms.

You will die, Immanuel Can, however much you pray or do good Christian works. It is unlikely any part of you will live forever. Your literal interpretation makes Christianity unsuited to post-enlightenment modernity, and at a time when we desperately need Christian ethics.

[Sculptor]

I know I'm going to regret asking this, but,...

...why in the world do humans need Jesus to "save" them?

Save them from what?
_______

Death...in all its forms.

You will die, Immanuel Can, however much you pray or do good Christian works. It is unlikely any part of you will live forever. Your literal interpretation makes Christianity unsuited to post-enlightenment modernity, and at a time when we desperately need Christian ethics.

No, we do not need any christian ethics.
The ethics where beleiving what you like regardless of evidence and reason is okay?
A ethics that would tear families apart? Is that the ethics you are talking about.
Why take what you think we need ethically and call it "ethics".
The ethics of the common person predates Xity and is far better than Xity. Why confuse the issue?

[Walker]

Can you please show what you are specifically referring to?

I simply must say, that since you are the Alpha and the Omega then what’s most important is the effect of the reading of Romans 3 upon yourself.

This is not simply opinion.

This is actually true for each and every human who reads Romans 3, even for those humans who cannot read, for the effect upon illiterates would be realization of their illiteracy, assuming that realization is a human trait not shared by lesser realms such as the animal realm that also cannot read, who apparently could (couldn't?) give a hoot about reading.

The effect of reading Romans 3 is measured by what verses leap out at … you. This is not mere opinion, mere point-of-view that is subject to either relativity or fence-sitting, but rather it is true for each and every human, as mansplained above.