*Yes, but cooperation is meant to further singular ambition, not supplant it. You and me go huntin'...we're stalkin' something fast, tough, and delicious...we work together to better our chances of fillin' our individual bellies, not in service to some society that extends out of, and is superior to us. Of course, I want you to fill your belly too (cuz I value you for multiple reasons) but -- first and foremost -- I wanna eat, to live, to stay alive.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 9:55 pmIt's not entirely pathological.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 9:18 pm Why is this true? I have my own ideas and it has to do with choice, but I'll await your comments.
*We are, after all, social creatures. That's a cliche, but it's not less true for that. When we are born, we are, for many years, dependent on others just to survive. We live in communities. We form families. Needing other people isn't automatically a sign of weakness or conformity.
**Independence is a learned skill. It's not easy to be autonomous, or individualist, or even self-controlled; and it's not a trick that even the best of us manages all of the time. It's a challenge many people are not up to at all, in fact. They are, to borrow a phrase, "other-directed," because it's a much easier way to live, and also, in some cases is actually unavoidable. If one wants to live in a civilization, or to experience the benefits of divisions of labour and specialization, then it's going to be, to some extent, necessary.
***I don't have an issue with people choosing to form collectives, if they want to do so voluntarily. I do have an issue with them forcing others to do so, whether they want to or not, and with them indoctrinating children to be incapable of self-determination, or training them to subordinate their autonomy to a "collective good" that is really no more than to render them more useful to some collective or the arbitrary dictates of some Socialist or autocrat.
It's ideological collectivism that is toxic. Voluntary collectives...hey, whatever you want. Elective societies...great. Common projects?...good idea. But just don't try to force any of that on anybody capable and desirous of standing on his own feet. Those things have to be chosen, not compelled.
But, that simple, practical reason for cooperation has been from twisted from sometimes a good idea and sometimes a decent strategy into necessity and obligation.
**I disagree. I think the drive to self-direct is strong. It must be tempered, of course, mated properly with self-responsbilty, to avoid license or licentiousness, but the drive itself is wholly natural to us.
***Me, I'm fine with folks livin' voluntarily as they choose; got a rather large problem with folks bein' reigned in: it rankles to see others leashed, and, leashed folks can be damned effective when forced to go after unleashed folks.