this is not the straw man you're looking for
- henry quirk
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Re: this is not the straw man you're looking for
Yanks don't understand anything. It's like trying to argue with those morons who believe the universe is six thousand years old. You get sick of bashing your head on a rock after a while. And IC only says what he thinks you want to hear.
I hear ya.
Anyway, you asked for a definition of socialism: I gave you some.
Now, I'm waitin' on Advocate to pony up his.
I hear ya.
Anyway, you asked for a definition of socialism: I gave you some.
Now, I'm waitin' on Advocate to pony up his.
- Immanuel Can
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Re: this is not the straw man you're looking for
My country isn't Socialist.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:07 pmSo presumably you are including your own country in that generalisation...Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:14 pm
But empirically, no version that has ever been tried so far in the real world, when allowed to run the economy and organize the political structure, has ever resulted in anything other than economic collapse, tyranny and murder, sot they've got that in common, too.
- vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: this is not the straw man you're looking for
So where do you live then? North Korea? Afghanistan?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:31 pmMy country isn't Socialist.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:07 pmSo presumably you are including your own country in that generalisation...Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:14 pm
But empirically, no version that has ever been tried so far in the real world, when allowed to run the economy and organize the political structure, has ever resulted in anything other than economic collapse, tyranny and murder, sot they've got that in common, too.
- Immanuel Can
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Re: this is not the straw man you're looking for
North Korea is Socialist.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:09 pm So where do you live then? North Korea? Afghanistan?
- vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: this is not the straw man you're looking for
It's a totalitarian dictatorship. I do realise that you have caught the idiocrity bug that originated in the US, whereby everything is either 'commie' or 'other', but the world is actually a whole lot more complex than that.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:22 pmNorth Korea is Socialist.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:09 pm So where do you live then? North Korea? Afghanistan?
- Immanuel Can
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Re: this is not the straw man you're looking for
A Socialist State, turned Socialist dictatorship...like Russia, China, Venezuela, Cuba, Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Albania, Romania...vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:29 pmIt's a totalitarian dictatorship.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:22 pmNorth Korea is Socialist.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:09 pm So where do you live then? North Korea? Afghanistan?
- vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: this is not the straw man you're looking for
And you can't see any difference between countries like those, and countries like Norway, Canada, New Zealand etc? Sad.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:58 pmA Socialist State, turned Socialist dictatorship...like Russia, China, Venezuela, Cuba, Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Albania, Romania...
Re: this is not the straw man you're looking for
[quote="Immanuel Can" post_id=507038 time=1618181922 user_id=9431]
Venezuela, Cuba
[/quote]
This shit has got to stop. Both Venezuela and Cuba are socialist success stories. They were as good as they could be in the face of massive US interference and frankly are still doing better than America would have done with them if they'd been colonized.
Venezuela only turned sour after both massive interference and internal political struggles after Chavez died.
Castro has done more with less for his people relative to the US.
Venezuela, Cuba
[/quote]
This shit has got to stop. Both Venezuela and Cuba are socialist success stories. They were as good as they could be in the face of massive US interference and frankly are still doing better than America would have done with them if they'd been colonized.
Venezuela only turned sour after both massive interference and internal political struggles after Chavez died.
Castro has done more with less for his people relative to the US.
- vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: this is not the straw man you're looking for
Idiots like Henry and IC don't take general standard of living and population well-being into account, in fact they love the idea of homelessness and starvation. To them, it means the 'inferior ones' get culled, leaving more resources for those who are fortunate enough to be in good health and financial security. Of course, they are too stupid to realise that capitalism can't work without socialism alongside it.Advocate wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:21 amThis shit has got to stop. Both Venezuela and Cuba are socialist success stories. They were as good as they could be in the face of massive US interference and frankly are still doing better than America would have done with them if they'd been colonized.
Venezuela only turned sour after both massive interference and internal political struggles after Chavez died.
Castro has done more with less for his people relative to the US.
- Immanuel Can
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Re: this is not the straw man you're looking for
I can see a huge difference. Russia, China, Venezuela, etc. are Socialist. Canada, Norway, New Zealand, etc. are capitalist.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:01 am ...countries like Norway, Canada, New Zealand etc?
Norway runs on its abundant oil supplies, sold on the free market, or it would not be able to sustain its social programs for a single year. Canada has a poor-functioning system of socialized medicine and (partly) basic education, but is thoroughly capitalistic in all its economic and political affairs. I'll let somebody else speak about New Zealand, but I suspect the same is true there.
Yep, there's a difference, alright.
- vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: this is not the straw man you're looking for
That's funny, because people like Henry would call all of them 'commie' countriesImmanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:50 amI can see a huge difference. Russia, China, Venezuela, etc. are Socialist. Canada, Norway, New Zealand, etc. are capitalist.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:01 am ...countries like Norway, Canada, New Zealand etc?
Norway runs on its abundant oil supplies, sold on the free market, or it would not be able to sustain its social programs for a single year. Canada has a poor-functioning system of socialized medicine and (partly) basic education, but is thoroughly capitalistic in all its economic and political affairs. I'll let somebody else speak about New Zealand, but I suspect the same is true there.
Yep, there's a difference, alright.
- Immanuel Can
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Re: this is not the straw man you're looking for
He might. But I think only in (justifiably) pejorative reference to their concessions to socialized medicine or education. And in fairness to Henry, he's right that both have been highly problematic. The former now seems fiscally doomed, and the latter has turned into a kind of toxic general indoctrination, at least in places like Canada.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:53 am That's funny, because people like Henry would call all of them 'commie' countries
- henry quirk
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Re: this is not the straw man you're looking for
get bent, sowvegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:28 amIdiots like Henry and IC don't take general standard of living and population well-being into account, in fact they love the idea of homelessness and starvation. To them, it means the 'inferior ones' get culled, leaving more resources for those who are fortunate enough to be in good health and financial security. Of course, they are too stupid to realise that capitalism can't work without socialism alongside it.Advocate wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:21 amThis shit has got to stop. Both Venezuela and Cuba are socialist success stories. They were as good as they could be in the face of massive US interference and frankly are still doing better than America would have done with them if they'd been colonized.
Venezuela only turned sour after both massive interference and internal political struggles after Chavez died.
Castro has done more with less for his people relative to the US.
- henry quirk
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Re: this is not the straw man you're looking for
no, sow, I wouldn'tvegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:53 amThat's funny, because people like Henry would call all of them 'commie' countriesImmanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:50 amI can see a huge difference. Russia, China, Venezuela, etc. are Socialist. Canada, Norway, New Zealand, etc. are capitalist.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:01 am ...countries like Norway, Canada, New Zealand etc?
Norway runs on its abundant oil supplies, sold on the free market, or it would not be able to sustain its social programs for a single year. Canada has a poor-functioning system of socialized medicine and (partly) basic education, but is thoroughly capitalistic in all its economic and political affairs. I'll let somebody else speak about New Zealand, but I suspect the same is true there.
Yep, there's a difference, alright.
- henry quirk
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Re: this is not the straw man you're looking for
capitalism can't work without socialism alongside it.
This...
Market socialism: the production process is under the control of ordinary workers. The workers decide how resources should be distributed. The workers sell off what is in excess or give it out to members of the society, who then distribute resources based on a free market system.
...right?
If not, then what?
Might wanna start with your definitions for socialism and capitalism. Then you can explain how the two are supposed to work together, to support one another.
Go ahead: educate us.
You too, Advocate: still waitin' on your, in context, definition of socialism, or Socialism.
This...
Market socialism: the production process is under the control of ordinary workers. The workers decide how resources should be distributed. The workers sell off what is in excess or give it out to members of the society, who then distribute resources based on a free market system.
...right?
If not, then what?
Might wanna start with your definitions for socialism and capitalism. Then you can explain how the two are supposed to work together, to support one another.
Go ahead: educate us.
You too, Advocate: still waitin' on your, in context, definition of socialism, or Socialism.