Natural death causing viruses prove that humans are never free

For philosophical reflections on the COVID-19 pandemic. How can philosophy help us to understand it, to combat it and to survive it?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Age
Posts: 6267
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Natural death causing viruses prove that humans are never free

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:07 pm Violent protests erupt in Italy over coronavirus restrictions | DW News

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDCi5OtCvt8

No one is free during a virus pandemic folks, stop whining like a baby and accept your life as a human being.
When you say, "No one is free" (during a virus pandemic), then what do you actually mean that NO one is free from, EXACTLY.

Just maybe if you made this part EXTREMELY CLEAR, then it could have, and/or would have, just be an open-and-shut case, from the very outset.

But SEE when one says, 'No one is free', or says, "Humans are NEVER free", then these REALLY ARE VERY GENERALIZED comments, AND CLAIMS. So, what do you propose 'it' IS, EXACTLY, which NO is, supposedly, free 'from', and which human beings are, supposedly, NEVER free 'from'?

Dontaskme wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:07 pm _______

PS, AGE, when you are ready to stay on topic and discuss normally the topic subject directly, then I am happy to disccuss with you.
1. To you, 'I' am just ANOTHER "useful idiot". (By the way, I am unsure of what a 'useful' "idiot is, to you, and how that compares to a 'useless' "idiot"). But, is it possible, to you, for an "idiot" (useless or useful) to 'stay on topic' and/or 'discuss normally'? So, would you REALLY 'be happy' to discuss, with 'me', just ANOTHER "useful idiot"?

2. You claim that, "talking to Age about ANY thing is a waste of energy" and you claim this because, supposedly, "I revel in the futile task of forever chasing tails that cannot be caught". So, would you REALLY 'be happy' to discuss, with me, this topic subject directly or ANY thing else?
Dontaskme wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:07 pm Until you CAN STICK TO THE ACTUAL POINT of the discussion, I suggest you just FUCK OFF and stop being a moron on my threads.
From the outset I have STUCK TO THE ACTUAL POINT. That POINT being: BEING FREE.

From my first post here, in this thread, I explained WHY 'you' BELIEVE that 'you' have 'NO freedom'. I also stated that 'you' actually 'DO HAVE freedom', and then went on to EXPLAIN how you actually 'DO HAVE freedom', which, by the way, you totally AGREED WITH.
Age
Posts: 6267
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Natural death causing viruses prove that humans are never free

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:55 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:51 pm
Virus aside, we all have needs; to eat, to stay warm, to get shelter, to have companionship, and purpose.
All of these things alone, or together mean we cannot be free of want and need.
Yes, I agree, this is the point I'm trying to get at, which is while we are living as a human being, we have no freedom, not the freedom we think we have in the sense we have to abide by the laws our elected leaders put in place for the good of the whole, we can't just say well I'm not doing that, no, we all have to work together, we all have to have our eyes looking in the same direction. I think that is why China is probably the most sucessful country in the world economically. They invest in profound efficiency ruling with an iron fist, which is not a bad thing, they have adopted a workable strategy that has contributed to a good handling of the corona virus pandemic, much better than in any other country, because the people work as a team, they co-operate for the good of the whole. They do not resist what has and needs to be done together. It's only the over privileged spoilt little egoic westerners that are the problem, they are the ones causing all the trouble, they make it difficult for themselves, when all they have do is obey the system. We have to work to a system else the alternative is chaos.
What country do you live in?
Dontaskme wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:55 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:51 pmDecent people would help us all together to achieve these things for ourselves and others - the ONLY root to freedom is by this co-operation.
Paradoxically the ones who shout FREEDOM the most are the ones who support the political ideologies that would deny these basic rights to others.

You know who you are.
Very true, and so thank you for your thoughts on this.

.
Dontaskme
Posts: 9591
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Natural death causing viruses prove that humans are never free

Post by Dontaskme »

Age wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:11 pm
From the outset I have STUCK TO THE ACTUAL POINT. That POINT being: BEING FREE.

From my first post here, in this thread, I explained WHY 'you' BELIEVE that 'you' have 'NO freedom'. I also stated that 'you' actually 'DO HAVE freedom', and then went on to EXPLAIN how you actually 'DO HAVE freedom', which, by the way, you totally AGREED WITH.

Ok great, then lets just continue to stick to thee actual point now...regarding the concept FREEDOM.

This is not one of my nondual threads Age, this thread is about realtime events in spacetime duality, aka the dream ok.

Some people are moaning that their freedoms are being taken away from them during these lockdowns. And so all I'm saying here is that these people never had any such freedoms in the first place, ok?

That's it, that's all I'm saying here. It's really quite easy to understand what I've said here surely?

.
Dontaskme
Posts: 9591
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Natural death causing viruses prove that humans are never free

Post by Dontaskme »

Belinda wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:39 am
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:47 am We are here for the same reason why the cockroaches or the viruses are here.

There is NO FREEDOM from HERE 4 You are never not here.

Words are stupid.

Definition of EXISTENCE equals unnecessary suffering. Social freedoms are a myth.

Only in death are you ever free. But even death is a myth.
In order to protect your reasoning, DAM, you should perhaps not use the word 'myth' to refer to how we name ideas and proceed to believe these ideas have natural reality and essence. So 'death' is not the only idea we reify. We mostly reify every idea we have.


re·​ify | \ ˈrā-ə-ˌfī , ˈrē- \
reified; reifying
Definition of reify
transitive verb

: to consider or represent (something abstract) as a material or concrete thing : to give definite content and form to (a concept or idea)
a culture can be reified into a body of traditions
— M. J. Herskovits for Merriam Webster
Ok I do get your point, and you are right of course if we want to continue with the continuity of existence, which is propelled into existing only because of the memory which is not real, that's where the myth idea comes from.

We don't ever teach the truth to ourselves, we tend to want to live in the lie, in the world of belief and imagination, simply because there is nothing outside of that arena, but it does help to know the truth, but no one wants it...and can't say I blame them for not wanting that.



.
Dontaskme
Posts: 9591
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Natural death causing viruses prove that humans are never free

Post by Dontaskme »

When people live in a society full of other people, they cannot just run around doing exactly what ever they like, they are not free to do that.

That's all I'm saying here. How hard is this to understand?
Age
Posts: 6267
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Natural death causing viruses prove that humans are never free

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:56 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:36 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:55 pm I think that is why China is probably the most sucessful country in the world economically. They invest in profound efficiency ruling with an iron fist, which is not a bad thing, they have adopted a workable strategy that has contributed to a good handling of the corona virus pandemic, much better than in any other country, because the people work as a team, they co-operate for the good of the whole.
Very few Chinese people see an iron fist in action. Quite the reverse.
I'm just using the 'iron fist' analogy in the context of China's way of dealing with a health crisis that could possibly destabilise their economy,
Thinking in 'economic' terms is WHY 'you' are NEVER free.
Dontaskme wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:56 pm where they apply a strict, confident, competent and consistent, firm and rigorous way of running things, as apposed to a sloppy half hearted softly softly approach.

To be firm and consistent with our young children is a sign of good management and secures their future survival, rather than to allow them to rule the roost, where they are allowed to run wild, play with sharp knives, drinking alcohol and doing just about anything they want which might cause them serious injuries.
LOL, well this is one way for adults to 'try to' "justify" their abuse of children.
Dontaskme wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:56 pm So I'm thinking along the lines of, this is how countries should be run too. We're all just one big human family really, and if we want to survive as a species we need to be good managers of ourselves, else the alternate is destruction, so lets just blast every fucker to kingdom come or something.
This should work, how, EXACTLY?

Dontaskme wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:56 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:36 pm I'd not say it would suit many in the West to follow their example, but a country that size has to take draconian measures to keep it from the sorts of fragmentation that seems inherent in the US, and UK.
China is unique and it would not be the example I had in mind when I considered the idea that the road to freedom from want.
Scandinavian countries have made a great effort towards that goal, and achieve it with democracy. They are way ahead of the UK and US, who, despite their economies have shocking and unneccesary levels of poverty, homelessness, and hunger. Conditions unthinkable in Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland.
Yes I agree. But the poverty part is just more to do with personal wealth, inheritance, and mostly good luck of what family one is born into, it's nothing to do with government policies. Norway will always do well because of their oil wells, they were lucky, they are self sufficient, not dependent on the EU they have an abundance of their own resources especially when it comes to keeping warm during their freezing winters. Unlike in the UK where people practically freeze to death fro m not being able to pay their heating bills.

But I'm more focused on the idea of working together for the good of the whole, something we observe in BEE and ANT activity, among many other natural things..so in a sense FREEDOM is a meaningless word, it can only really exist as a 'FREE from' something and then everything will be ok. But nothing can ever be free from something because there will always be something else to be free from.
And so going back to my original point, it just annoys me when people start to rebel and protest about their ''freedoms'' being taken away from them just because they are being told to stay at home as much as possible during a virus pandemic etc...the point is, what freedoms are the people talking about, the word doesn't even make any sense to be honest.

.
So, when we get down to what this thread is REALLY about, then this is about 'you' just feeling somewhat annoyed with some "other people" not doing what it is that 'you' WANT them to do. No wonder the word 'freedom' does NOT even make ANY sense, to 'you'.

What appears here now is that 'you' WANT, and seemingly EXPECT, "others" to do what 'you' WANT, and EXPECT them, to do. Thus, for them to have 'NO freedom' of their own at all.
Age
Posts: 6267
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Natural death causing viruses prove that humans are never free

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:38 pm
Age wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:11 pm
From the outset I have STUCK TO THE ACTUAL POINT. That POINT being: BEING FREE.

From my first post here, in this thread, I explained WHY 'you' BELIEVE that 'you' have 'NO freedom'. I also stated that 'you' actually 'DO HAVE freedom', and then went on to EXPLAIN how you actually 'DO HAVE freedom', which, by the way, you totally AGREED WITH.

Ok great, then lets just continue to stick to thee actual point now...regarding the concept FREEDOM.

This is not one of my nondual threads Age, this thread is about realtime events in spacetime duality, aka the dream ok.
Besides saying, "real time events" is "also known as dreams", which sounds EXTREMELY self-contradictory, let us continue anyway.
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:38 pm Some people are moaning that their freedoms are being taken away from them during these lockdowns.
And some people moan about much less other things. Also, I would suggest that if not ALL, then just about all, adult human beings moan about some thing.

For example, you appear here to be moaning about some thing, that is; you appear to be moaning about people who moan about having their freedoms taken away from them.
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:38 pm And so all I'm saying here is that these people never had any such freedoms in the first place, ok?
Okay. So then what are they REALLY moaning about EXACTLY?

To me, these people were previously allowed to do some things, which now they are not allowed to. Thus, to them, they have had those freedoms taken away from them. Although, other freedoms still remain, as they were.

To you, if people were once previously allowed to, let us say, 'leave their homes to go to the mall', or to "leave their homes to go to the beach", but now they are not allowed to, then why do you say, "these people never had any such freedoms in the first place"?

If people once had the 'freedom' to do such things, but now they do not have such 'freedoms', then WHY do you say that "they NEVER had ANY such freedoms, in the first place"?

That's it, that's all I'm saying here. It's really quite easy to understand what I've said here surely?

.
[/quote]

Yes 'what' you have said here is REALLY very simple and very easy to understand. Getting to understand 'why' you say what you said here is another matter. So, will 'you' EXPLAIN WHY you said what you said here?

What evidence and/or proof do you have that these people did NOT have "ANY such freedoms, in the first place"?
Age
Posts: 6267
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Natural death causing viruses prove that humans are never free

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:57 pm When people live in a society full of other people,
What does "live in a society 'full' of "other" people" actually mean?
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:57 pm they cannot just run around doing exactly what ever they like, they are not free to do that.
Okay.

So, are you suggesting that the actual reason WHY people are 'not free' is because of, people, themselves?

What else is, or could be, stopping people from "running around doing exactly what ever they like"?
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:57 pm That's all I'm saying here.
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:57 pm How hard is this to understand?
What is 'this', EXACTLY?

The 'hardness' of 'this', to understand, is yet to be determined.

Is 'this', what you are saying here, is that; "People are 'not free' because people, themselves, make up rules, which stop people from doing exactly whatever they like to do"?

If this is NOT all of what you are saying here, then what, exactly, is all you are saying here?
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 10132
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Natural death causing viruses prove that humans are never free

Post by henry quirk »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:15 am For all those who feel like their freedoms are being taken away by the restrictions imposed upon you because of the effects of this new virus covid 19 has on the body need to wake up to the stark reality..you have no freedom, you've never had freedom.

If you think you are free, you are living in a delusional reality. Freedom is just another meaningless worthless arbitary sourceless idea, another fictional fantasy.

If you have knowledge you are alive, you are forever trapped in yourself, there is no escape from that self imposed prison because you will defend that self at all cost.
if freedom is nuthin' but a child's license (I wanna do what I want, when I want!): then you're right

if freedom is self-direction & self-responsibility (I do what I choose and accept the consequences): then you're wrong
Dontaskme
Posts: 9591
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Natural death causing viruses prove that humans are never free

Post by Dontaskme »

henry quirk wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:17 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:15 am For all those who feel like their freedoms are being taken away by the restrictions imposed upon you because of the effects of this new virus covid 19 has on the body need to wake up to the stark reality..you have no freedom, you've never had freedom.

If you think you are free, you are living in a delusional reality. Freedom is just another meaningless worthless arbitary sourceless idea, another fictional fantasy.

If you have knowledge you are alive, you are forever trapped in yourself, there is no escape from that self imposed prison because you will defend that self at all cost.
if freedom is nuthin' but a child's license (I wanna do what I want, when I want!): then you're right

if freedom is self-direction & self-responsibility (I do what I choose and accept the consequences): then you're wrong
I agree, thank you. :D
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 10132
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Natural death causing viruses prove that humans are never free

Post by henry quirk »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:19 pm
henry quirk wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:17 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:15 am For all those who feel like their freedoms are being taken away by the restrictions imposed upon you because of the effects of this new virus covid 19 has on the body need to wake up to the stark reality..you have no freedom, you've never had freedom.

If you think you are free, you are living in a delusional reality. Freedom is just another meaningless worthless arbitary sourceless idea, another fictional fantasy.

If you have knowledge you are alive, you are forever trapped in yourself, there is no escape from that self imposed prison because you will defend that self at all cost.
if freedom is nuthin' but a child's license (I wanna do what I want, when I want!): then you're right

if freedom is self-direction & self-responsibility (I do what I choose and accept the consequences): then you're wrong
I agree, thank you. :D
you're welcome, wrong-headed person
Dontaskme
Posts: 9591
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Natural death causing viruses prove that humans are never free

Post by Dontaskme »

henry quirk wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:40 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:19 pm
henry quirk wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:17 pm

if freedom is nuthin' but a child's license (I wanna do what I want, when I want!): then you're right

if freedom is self-direction & self-responsibility (I do what I choose and accept the consequences): then you're wrong
I agree, thank you. :D
you're welcome, wrong-headed person
So what happened to the right headed person?

Also, I 'm talking about shared cooperation, responsibilty and values when dealing with a national health crisis. We all have to work together, not be towing the line. For example when the going gets tough, the tough get going.

Also, what do you think of the beer virus to date, it doesn't seem to be going away any time soon, does it? in fact it seems to be getting worse.
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 10132
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Natural death causing viruses prove that humans are never free

Post by henry quirk »

So what happened to the right headed person?

I'm fine...thanks for askin'


Also, I 'm talking about shared cooperation, responsibilty and values when dealing with a national health crisis. We all have to work together, not be towing the line. For example when the going gets tough, the tough get going.

there ain't no national health crisis...the crisis is the on-goin' over-reaction to a nasty cold


Also, what do you think of the beer virus to date, it doesn't seem to be going away any time soon, does it? in fact it seems to be getting worse.

it's horseshit, like I been sayin' for months

the numbers are fixed and fudged (for example, where's the flu? bein' listed as beer virus, that's where)
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 9573
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Natural death causing viruses prove that humans are never free

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

The beauty of the hyphen....
Dontaskme
Posts: 9591
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Natural death causing viruses prove that humans are never free

Post by Dontaskme »

henry quirk wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:31 pm

there ain't no national health crisis...the crisis is the on-goin' over-reaction to a nasty cold
Well it doesn't matter what you think, whether it is an over-reaction or not, you still have to obey the law enforcers whether you like it or not, you have no choice or freedom to disobey, and that's just how law works, the law is just not interested in your over-emotional state of mind.

.
Post Reply