Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

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Skepdick
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Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

SteveKlinko wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:53 pm Here we go again. When you can't argue the topic then go start questioning the meaning of words. Yawn.
Is that how you misunderstood my question? OK... let me elaborate.

Could you describe a scenario, a human interaction; or a behaviour, an example of a real-world events which you would describe using the word "Racism" ?

Surely you don't want me misunderstanding your use of the word and talking right past you?
SteveKlinko
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Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by SteveKlinko »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:26 am
SteveKlinko wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:53 pm Here we go again. When you can't argue the topic then go start questioning the meaning of words. Yawn.
Is that how you misunderstood my question? OK... let me elaborate.

Could you describe a scenario, a human interaction; or a behaviour, an example of a real-world events which you would describe using the word "Racism" ?

Surely you don't want me misunderstanding your use of the word and talking right past you?
Very Funny. Yawn, Yawn.
Skepdick
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Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

SteveKlinko wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:32 pm Very Funny. Yawn, Yawn.
Hilarious indeed.

I guess you aren't going to share with us your conception of the word "Racism" then?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Immanuel Can »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:53 pm I guess you aren't going to share with us your conception of the word "Racism" then?
Is it racism when you call people "racist," but have no proof but their skin colour? Is that racist, Skep?
Skepdick
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Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:55 pm Is it racism when you call people "racist," but have no proof but their skin colour? Is that racist, Skep?
Is anything ever "proof" when you are just using the word haphazardly?

If you don't like the word "racism", you are welcome to give us a different placeholder for the phenomenon which I previously described.
Do you prefer "othering" ? In-group favouritism? Preferential treatment? implicit bias?

Give it a name that doesn't trigger you.
SteveKlinko
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Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by SteveKlinko »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:53 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:32 pm Very Funny. Yawn, Yawn.
Hilarious indeed.

I guess you aren't going to share with us your conception of the word "Racism" then?
You first.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Immanuel Can »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:58 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:55 pm Is it racism when you call people "racist," but have no proof but their skin colour? Is that racist, Skep?
Is anything ever "proof" when you are just using the word haphazardly?
I'm not. I know that I mean. But I'm asking you what you would say. And you can put in the word "evidence," if you prefer it.

But now that you raise it, what would you consider "proof" of racism? Or are you accustomed to making that allegation without anything you even regard as "proof"?

That would indeed be "haphazard": would it also be racist?
Skepdick
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Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:34 pm I'm not. I know that I mean.
Yes YOU know what you mean. Nobody else does.
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:34 pm But now that you raise it, what would you consider "proof" of racism? Or are you accustomed to making that allegation without anything you even regard as "proof"?
Now that I raised it, you decided to avoid commitment?

Are you accustomed to answering all questions with questions?
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:34 pm That would indeed be "haphazard": would it also be racist?
I don't know. You tell me. You know what you mean when you use the word "racism". Do you not? You are using the word, after all, whereas I am not...
Skepdick
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Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

SteveKlinko wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:34 pm You first.
You want me to derail your thread by coming up with a definition for a word I don't even use?

What kind of bullshit is this? But you know what.... lets see where your stupid leads.

Here's an experiment design.

Members of the public are put in a shoot/no-shoot training scenario where people of different races jump out holding either cellphones (no threat)
or a gun (threat). The experiment participant then makes the shoot/no-shoot decision and the "correctness" of the decision is recorded.

All errors (which in a real-world scenario would closely represent corpses) are to be counted.

If we were to count all the errors, and it turns out that black suspects were being accidentally shot
more than non-black suspects, would you accept this as proof of an underlying bias?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Immanuel Can »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:39 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:34 pm That would indeed be "haphazard": would it also be racist?
I don't know. You tell me. You know what you mean when you use the word "racism". Do you not? You are using the word, after all, whereas I am not...
You were the one who asked for a definition of "racism," as I recall. You must know what you were asking for.

But I see you cannot safely answer...not, I think, because you don't know the words "proof" or "evidence," or there's some opaqueness to those concepts sufficient to warrant not answering, but because you support accusations of "racism" in the cases in which you have no more than (to use your word) "possible" indicators that racism was involved at all.

So I'll re-pose the question: is jumping to such prejudicial conclusions a form of racism, in your mind? Yes or no?
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henry quirk
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Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by henry quirk »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:55 pm
Skepdick wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:53 pm I guess you aren't going to share with us your conception of the word "Racism" then?
Is it racism when you call people "racist," but have no proof but their skin colour? Is that racist, Skep?
not sure what the big whoop is here

I've been called lots of ugly names over the years: racist is just one of 'em

typically, such interactions go like this...

them: you're a racist!

me: prove it

them: incoherent rants or silence

...or...

them: you're a racist!

me: yep...wanna do sumthin' about it?

them: incoherent rants or silence

...or...

them: you're a racist!

me: fuck you and your ma

them: incoherent rants or silence


racist or not: I feel no compulsion to justify or defend or argue

feed them leeches if you like, I won't
Skepdick
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Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:56 pm You were the one who asked for a definition of "racism," as I recall. You must know what you were asking for.
I do know what I am asking for. Which is why I asked for it.

I asked for examples of scenarios in which you might describe using the word "racism". if you insist that you can't think of any scenarios where this word is applicable, then fine. Stop using the word.
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:56 pm So I'll re-pose the question: is jumping to such prejudicial conclusions a form of racism, in your mind? Yes or no?
Maybe. Not all prejudice is racism.
Last edited by Skepdick on Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Immanuel Can »

henry quirk wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:59 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:55 pm
Skepdick wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:53 pm I guess you aren't going to share with us your conception of the word "Racism" then?
Is it racism when you call people "racist," but have no proof but their skin colour? Is that racist, Skep?
not sure what the big whoop is here
It's a lot of hogwash, Henry.

As you point out, if racism is one person's view, there's absolutely nothing anybody can do about it until that person changes his mind. If racism is enshrined in policy, then it can be eliminated by law. This has been done already: it's illegal to hire, or provide schooling, provide service, give access, apply justice, or any other such things on racist grounds, and the perp can be charged or sued if it happens.

So the whole problem is gone, as much as it can be. Cleaning up any further remnants cannot be done by using the law. You can't change a person's mind with laws; you can only secure policy equality, so far as that goes.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Immanuel Can »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:04 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:56 pm You were the one who asked for a definition of "racism," as I recall. You must know what you were asking for.
I do know what I am asking for. Which is why I asked for it.

Examples of scenarios in which you might describe using the word "racism".
I gave you one. Why can't you answer?
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:56 pm So I'll re-pose the question: is jumping to such prejudicial conclusions a form of racism, in your mind? Yes or no?
Maybe. Not all prejudice is racism.
So you would not support accusing a person of racism unless you KNEW they were racist for sure? You wouldn't do it, say, on mere "possibilities"?

And if you did, would you be racist?

There's your "scenario." Give a straight answer, if you dare.
Skepdick
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Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:06 pm As you point out, if racism is one person's view, there's absolutely nothing anybody can do about it until that person changes his mind.
You can point out the prejudice as it takes place giving the person an opportunity to reflect on their behaviour.

A change in behaviour can take place without a change of mind.
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