extra costs of being poor

[Advocate]

When you're poor, the little bit that is skimmed off the top of your paycheck allows more control over society for the rich person who already has their basics well covered than you can obtain, even if you manage to save that much after basic living expenses, which is itself highly unlikely, because you have neither the economy of scale or access to the most efficient means for using that money as they do.

[henry quirk]

[Belinda]

Even you, Henry, might be impoverished by fickle fortune.

[Advocate]

fickle fortune.

#bandname

[Advocate]

When you're poor, keeping track of licenses for software you own is problematic, as you're likely to be tossed by the winds of fate physically as well as your belongings generally being subject to interference, disruption, and loss. At some point it only makes pragmatic sense to pirate, even if you've legitimately purchased the software, opening yourself up to legal problems.

[henry quirk]

Even you, Henry, might be impoverished by fickle fortune.

I have been quite poor...by some measures, I'm poor now

my point: none of the posters in-thread have been or are

they comment on the subject like virgins comment on sex after readin' about it

all theory; no experience

[Advocate]

[quote="henry quirk" post_id=475730 time=1602857829 user_id=472]
[quote=Belinda post_id=475697 time=1602838981 user_id=12709]
[quote="henry quirk" post_id=475659 time=1602804910 user_id=472]

[/quote]

Even you, Henry, might be impoverished by fickle fortune.
[/quote]

I have been quite poor...by some measures, I'm poor now

my point: none of the posters in-thread have been or are

they comment on the subject like virgins comment on sex after readin' about it

all theory; no experience
[/quote]

It's quite magical how you have such magical knowledge of everyone here's circumstances, present and past.

[henry quirk]

Even you, Henry, might be impoverished by fickle fortune.

I have been quite poor...by some measures, I'm poor now

my point: none of the posters in-thread have been or are

they comment on the subject like virgins comment on sex after readin' about it

all theory; no experience

It's quite magical how you have such magical knowledge of everyone here's circumstances, present and past.

have you been poor? are you poor?

incidentally, folks on the dole aren't poor, they're pets

are you a pet?

[Scott Mayers]

It wasn't arrogant; I didn't say that "I" had a high IQ. If research shows that IQ is correlated with wealth creation, it is no more biased that also pointing out that certain personality types are also correlated with wealth creation.

A "force that locks in one's poverty regardless of will". Oh ma gerd; a marxist. We shouldn't be so quick to dispense with personal differences and ascribe everything to "oppressive forces".

That is my quote, not Marx. This isn't about opinion but about fact. Or do you think believe that wealth lacks exponential advantage to gain more wealth with less input?

I think this "effort" narrative is simplistic and misguided.

Example 1: let's say that you do a job that pays $10/hr and I do one that pays $100. Clearly, it takes you 10 times more effort to buy something worth $100. We are also not doing the same jobs. You may have stayed in the pubs and flunked uni while I am a cancer surgeon.

Example 2: lets say we both do a jobs that pay $10/hr but you work 1 hour a day and I work $10. It doesn't take you more effort than I to buy an item worth $100, I just chose to work longer to afford the $100 item.

If all people got paid AS they were actually worth, then you can have something to say. The reality is that IF you lack initial power in terms of the advantages that come with some form of inheritance, the one without is forced to labor (be a relative 'slave') to whomever they are supposedly so 'lucky' to work for. In a capitalist society, the vast majority who hire those on the bottom are right-wing businesses who believe intrinsically in EXPLOITING those with a relative disadvantage.

Note that if all people had no debt, there would be no money. Profit then requires exploiting means to make some indebted over others. And if you begin with nothing,...as someone 'poor' would entail, they are expected to bend over backwards for every dollar.

[RCSaunders]

That is my quote, not Marx. This isn't about opinion but about fact. Or do you think believe that wealth lacks exponential advantage to gain more wealth with less input?

I think this "effort" narrative is simplistic and misguided.

Example 1: let's say that you do a job that pays $10/hr and I do one that pays $100. Clearly, it takes you 10 times more effort to buy something worth $100. We are also not doing the same jobs. You may have stayed in the pubs and flunked uni while I am a cancer surgeon.

Example 2: lets say we both do a jobs that pay $10/hr but you work 1 hour a day and I work $10. It doesn't take you more effort than I to buy an item worth $100, I just chose to work longer to afford the $100 item.

If all people got paid AS they were actually worth, then you can have something to say. The reality is that IF you lack initial power in terms of the advantages that come with some form of inheritance, the one without is forced to labor (be a relative 'slave') to whomever they are supposedly so 'lucky' to work for. In a capitalist society, the vast majority who hire those on the bottom are right-wing businesses who believe intrinsically in EXPLOITING those with a relative disadvantage.

Note that if all people had no debt, there would be no money. Profit then requires exploiting means to make some indebted over others. And if you begin with nothing,...as someone 'poor' would entail, they are expected to bend over backwards for every dollar.

You do know that most millionaires were born into poor families and received no inheritance at all don't you? From, "The Privileged:"

Most millionaires are self-made. "The overwhelming majority (79%) of millionaires in the U.S. did not receive any inheritance at all from their parents or other family members. While one in five millionaires (21%) received some inheritance, only 3% received an inheritance of $1 million or more."

"The majority of millionaires didn't even grow up around a lot of money. Eight out of 10 millionaires come from families at or below middle-income level."

...and since you have no idea what money is: "Money."

Whatever you have, and whatever you enjoy, if there were no millionaires you would have less and so would everyone else. Is that what you really want for everyone, to have less than they do now?

The poor are poor because they are bums who believe they deserve more just because they were born and do not have to work and produce anything of value and are jealous of all those who do the work of producing all the things the poor want. The ultimate law of justice is, "produce or die." Every human being living in this world who is not supporting himself by his own productive effort is a parasite sucking the life out of all those you despise, those who actually do something of value.

[Advocate]

When you're poor you face the possibility that if you play by the rules you could lose every single game.

[Advocate]

When you're particularly poor, even affording the necessary documents and cleanliness to be able to find "real work" can be impossible. And if you manage that, all of the work available to you is dehumanizing, and none of it allows you to find or reach your potential in any meaningful way.

[RCSaunders]

When you're poor you face the possibility that if you play by the rules you could lose every single game.

When you're particularly poor, even affording the necessary documents and cleanliness to be able to find "real work" can be impossible. And if you manage that, all of the work available to you is dehumanizing, and none of it allows you to find or reach your potential in any meaningful way.

The poor are poor because they are ignorant and indolent, too lazy to learn what they need to learn and to lazy to make the effort to actually produce something of value to themselves or anyone else. It's a self-chosen condition. They contribute nothing of value to their own lives and are a drag on everyone else's lives--both they and the world would be better off without them and if stupid bleeding hearts would stop feeding them and forcing other honest self-supporting decent people to feed them, there would soon be no poor people.

[Advocate]

[quote=RCSaunders post_id=477542 time=1603909380 user_id=16196]
[quote=Advocate post_id=477431 time=1603827837 user_id=15238]
When you're poor you face the possibility that if you play by the rules you could lose every single game.

When you're particularly poor, even affording the necessary documents and cleanliness to be able to find "real work" can be impossible. And if you manage that, all of the work available to you is dehumanizing, and none of it allows you to find or reach your potential in any meaningful way.
[/quote]
The poor are poor because they are ignorant and indolent, too lazy to learn what they need to learn and to lazy to make the effort to actually produce something of value to themselves or anyone else. It's a self-chosen condition. They contribute nothing of value to their own lives and are a drag on everyone else's lives--both they and the world would be better off without them and if stupid bleeding hearts would stop feeding them and forcing other honest self-supporting decent people to feed them, there would soon be no poor people.
[/quote]

You seem ignorant of a) how few opportunities are available to the poor b) how many people there are vieing for those scant opportunities c) how pathetic most of those opportunities actually are. Other than that, you could be right.

[Scott Mayers]

I think this "effort" narrative is simplistic and misguided.

Example 1: let's say that you do a job that pays $10/hr and I do one that pays $100. Clearly, it takes you 10 times more effort to buy something worth $100. We are also not doing the same jobs. You may have stayed in the pubs and flunked uni while I am a cancer surgeon.

Example 2: lets say we both do a jobs that pay $10/hr but you work 1 hour a day and I work $10. It doesn't take you more effort than I to buy an item worth $100, I just chose to work longer to afford the $100 item.

If all people got paid AS they were actually worth, then you can have something to say. The reality is that IF you lack initial power in terms of the advantages that come with some form of inheritance, the one without is forced to labor (be a relative 'slave') to whomever they are supposedly so 'lucky' to work for. In a capitalist society, the vast majority who hire those on the bottom are right-wing businesses who believe intrinsically in EXPLOITING those with a relative disadvantage.

Note that if all people had no debt, there would be no money. Profit then requires exploiting means to make some indebted over others. And if you begin with nothing,...as someone 'poor' would entail, they are expected to bend over backwards for every dollar.

You do know that most millionaires were born into poor families and received no inheritance at all don't you? From, "The Privileged:"

Most millionaires are self-made. "The overwhelming majority (79%) of millionaires in the U.S. did not receive any inheritance at all from their parents or other family members. While one in five millionaires (21%) received some inheritance, only 3% received an inheritance of $1 million or more."

"The majority of millionaires didn't even grow up around a lot of money. Eight out of 10 millionaires come from families at or below middle-income level."

...and since you have no idea what money is: "Money."

Whatever you have, and whatever you enjoy, if there were no millionaires you would have less and so would everyone else. Is that what you really want for everyone, to have less than they do now?

The poor are poor because they are bums who believe they deserve more just because they were born and do not have to work and produce anything of value and are jealous of all those who do the work of producing all the things the poor want. The ultimate law of justice is, "produce or die." Every human being living in this world who is not supporting himself by his own productive effort is a parasite sucking the life out of all those you despise, those who actually do something of value.

Stating declared statistics won't help. Your assumption that most wealth is 'earned' requires also the proof that the same wealth is both LOST of those same Millionaires AND to the failure of inheritance (including 'heritage') to be lost where UNEARNED. If this doesn't occur, we'd all be identically wealthy (and powerful) by now!

But you miss the same point about how wealth is ACCELERATIVE, not merely tit-for-tat fair trades. So, if you want to debate this further, can you express whether you agree or disagree with this fact? That is, is it true that one who has MORE inherent OR earned power has EASIER capacity to make even MORE wealth?