What causes muslims to be violent

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Belinda
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Belinda »

henry quirk wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:20 pm
Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:08 pm
henry quirk wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:04 pm

then tell me
"Let everyone who possesses two shirts share with him who has none, and let him who has food do likewise." (Luke: 3; 11)
many christians do just that, through charity

these christians also resent gov takin' from them and givin' to those who may not deserve compassion or charity

to emulate Jesus is not synonymous with bein indiscriminate

anyway: what makes you think conservatives or right-wingers or trump are lacking in compassion or charity?


Private charity is insufficient in this secular age. Time was when monasteries, and local church communities, and families, saw to the rescue of the poor and sick. But the social world is too different now when most people don't live in extended families, or in small communities presided over by a religious welfare organisation.

To emulate Jesus is to make a well informed, wise, and ethical choice. So to emulate Jesus is not to be indiscriminate, quite the opposite.

Is it only the deserving poor who should get help? No. Jesus helped the woman adulterer. And Jesus told the parable about the labourers in the vinyard:

In Matthew 20:1–16, Jesus says that any "laborer" who accepts the invitation to the work in the vineyard no matter how late in the day, will receive an equal reward with those who have been faithful the longest. This is just like "From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs".
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Immanuel Can
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:30 pm Private charity is insufficient in this secular age.
The same people who say this also say that every person counts. I wonder which story they really believe.
Time was when monasteries, and local church communities, and families, saw to the rescue of the poor and sick.
Yes, and voluntary societies did great things as well. But since we replaced these with government 'solutions,' we've had nothing but a succession of disasters...inefficiency, graft, waste, mismanagement, forcible standardization, permanent dependency and loss of freedom, unsustainable economics...

A good instance, that I know a lot about is foreign aid. It's been a terrible disaster in places like Africa, issuing in corruption, unsustainable projects, paralysis of local industries, mismanagement of resources, and so on. Private charity does almost all the good work in the Developing World, and the lead agents of betterment in the Developing World are...surprise, surprise...Christians!
But the social world is too different now when most people don't live in extended families, or in small communities presided over by a religious welfare organisation.
Whose fault is that, where such things have come about? It's all the Lefties, who even today tells families don't matter, charity is a government business, local societies are unnecessary and people don't know what their own best interests are.
To emulate Jesus is to make a well informed, wise, and ethical choice.
I could not agree more.

I can't see that Socialism fits that bill at all. It fails all three of your tests.
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henry quirk
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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Socialists think Socialism arises out of goodness of heart.

they're an arrogant lot

their hearts bleed, so everyone's hearts should bleed equally

they identify the needy, so everyone should fall in line with the same assessment

they disburse their resources, so everyone should disburse their resources equally

friggin' well-intentioned, tyrants



I think genuine compassion doesn't kill people. What do you think?

genuine compassion is individual & voluntary; is offered, never forced; is humble, never arrogant

charity, real charity, is a blessing; the faux-charity of the socialist is not
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Immanuel Can
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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henry quirk wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:48 pm charity, real charity, is a blessing; the faux-charity of the socialist is not
That's it, boyo. Bang on the money.

Couldn't agree more.
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henry quirk
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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Private charity is insufficient in this secular age.

and theft is justfied: should becomes must; compassion becomes conscription

Jackboot Jesus


In Matthew 20:1–16, Jesus says that any "laborer" who accepts the invitation to the work in the vineyard no matter how late in the day, will receive an equal reward with those who have been faithful the longest. This is just like "From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs".

probably has more to do with late-stage repentance & salvation than full bellies and heavy purses
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Immanuel Can
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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henry quirk wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:54 pm In Matthew 20:1–16, Jesus says that any "laborer" who accepts the invitation to the work in the vineyard no matter how late in the day, will receive an equal reward with those who have been faithful the longest. This is just like "From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs".

probably has more to do with late-stage repentance & salvation than full bellies and heavy purses
Actually has to do with eternal reward, not Socialist initiatives in 1st Century Galilee.

It actually begins with the words, "For the kingdom of heaven is like..." B. didn't notice that, though.
Belinda
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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henry quirk wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:48 pm Socialists think Socialism arises out of goodness of heart.

they're an arrogant lot

their hearts bleed, so everyone's hearts should bleed equally

they identify the needy, so everyone should fall in line with the same assessment

they disburse their resources, so everyone should disburse their resources equally

friggin' well-intentioned, tyrants



I think genuine compassion doesn't kill people. What do you think?

genuine compassion is individual & voluntary; is offered, never forced; is humble, never arrogant

charity, real charity, is a blessing; the faux-charity of the socialist is not
Fair distribution of goods is not all about altruism or sentimentality. Fair distribution of goods will not happen unless there is religious or secular law that ensures it will happen. Civilisation depends upon some sort of fair distribution. Fair distribution originates in law, either religious law or secular law or both.

Men and markets being what they are, competition is needed to prevent inefficient monopolies. The United States, Europe, Russia, and China all have laws to prevent monopolies. Civilisation depends on fairness , fairness is not simply about compassion or pity but affects us all.
Belinda
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:01 pm
henry quirk wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:54 pm In Matthew 20:1–16, Jesus says that any "laborer" who accepts the invitation to the work in the vineyard no matter how late in the day, will receive an equal reward with those who have been faithful the longest. This is just like "From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs".

probably has more to do with late-stage repentance & salvation than full bellies and heavy purses
Actually has to do with eternal reward, not Socialist initiatives in 1st Century Galilee.

It actually begins with the words, "For the kingdom of heaven is like..." B. didn't notice that, though.
Do you think the Kingdom of Heaven is another world up in the sky, or inhabited by happy ghosts, or what?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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Belinda wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:31 am Do you think the Kingdom of Heaven is another world up in the sky, or inhabited by happy ghosts, or what?
No. But Christ is clearly not talking about something like redistributive economics or so-called "equality." In fact, he's not talking about policies directly for present-day application by human beings in their routine transactions at all. That much is clear.
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henry quirk
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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Fair distribution of goods is not all about altruism or sentimentality. Fair distribution of goods will not happen unless there is religious or secular law that ensures it will happen. Civilisation depends upon some sort of fair distribution. Fair distribution originates in law, either religious law or secular law or both.

no, civilization rests on a respect of life, liberty, and property, and individual self-direction & -responsibility

fair distribution is always theft, no matter how efficient

encourage charity, and get thee to one


Men and markets being what they are, competition is needed to prevent inefficient monopolies. The United States, Europe, Russia, and China all have laws to prevent monopolies. Civilisation depends on fairness , fairness is not simply about compassion or pity but affects us all.

yes, we block natural monopolies while encouragin' the artificial kind: a madness that comes from state capitalism bein' mated to large government

free enterprise offers no such partnership; natural monopolies are possible but not the artificial we're afflicted with
Belinda
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:08 pm
Belinda wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:31 am Do you think the Kingdom of Heaven is another world up in the sky, or inhabited by happy ghosts, or what?
No. But Christ is clearly not talking about something like redistributive economics or so-called "equality." In fact, he's not talking about policies directly for present-day application by human beings in their routine transactions at all. That much is clear.
And cannot you adapt his knowledge and wisdom to present day usage?

If I could not do so I'd regard Jesus as an ephemeral preacher.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Immanuel Can »

Belinda wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:59 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:08 pm
Belinda wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:31 am Do you think the Kingdom of Heaven is another world up in the sky, or inhabited by happy ghosts, or what?
No. But Christ is clearly not talking about something like redistributive economics or so-called "equality." In fact, he's not talking about policies directly for present-day application by human beings in their routine transactions at all. That much is clear.
And cannot you adapt his knowledge and wisdom to present day usage?
I take Him at his word. This world lasts only for awhile. The Kingdom of Heaven is eternal.

Where's the smart investment?
If I could not do so I'd regard Jesus as an ephemeral preacher.
"Ephemeral"? :shock: Obviously, there's no word so inapplicable here.
Belinda
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Belinda »

Henry Quirk wrote:
yes, we block natural monopolies while encouragin' the artificial kind: a madness that comes from state capitalism bein' mated to large government
I think corruption among the ruling classes is worse when the government is large. I don't know if that is exactly what you mean.For instance, in the USA I imagine there would be less corruption if the separate States were more autonomous, as the dealings would be more open to public scrutiny. is that what you mean?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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Belinda wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:16 am Fair distribution of goods...
Exactly what does "fair" distribution of goods mean?

Does it mean everybody gets the same amount, so that people who work get the same as those who don't, those who are honest get the same as those who steal, those who are dull, unimaginative or stupid get the same as those who are witty, clever and inventive, those who add value to the economy or other people's lives get the same as those who are selfish and provincial?

Does it mean a brain surgeon makes the same as a street cleaner?

Does it mean that those who work 60-hour weeks and make sacrifices get the same as those who work 30-hour weeks and are self-indulgent instead?

Does it means we keep giving money to people until they stop complaining and whining, or does it mean we teach people "You are already very blessed; be thankful for what you've got"?

What does it mean, B? Since you say it's so essential, so moral and so necessary, shouldn't you also be able to say what it is? :shock:
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Immanuel Can
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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Belinda wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:10 pm I think corruption among the ruling classes is worse when the government is large.
Then why are you a Socialist? Socialism requires the biggest government of all.

Do you like corruption? :shock:
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