Would you rather die than work?

[chaz wyman]

C:Wootah is not stating his own personal preference but the preference of tradition.

AS: How do you know this? What I mean is, you can't know if wootah explored the same avenues that you explored or had the same thoughts. You cannot know what wootah knows, even if wootah tells you what he knows, you might not be able to understand him...and visa versa. You do not know if Wootah dared to think "otherwise" and then came to the conclusion "otherwise" was not all that, and that traditional values were better.

Prove me wrong!

C:I dare to un-think.

AS: Is this the same as typists "aphilosophy"?

Nope. It is what the best philosophy has always been


AS: It tells us only that you "believe" that your source of enlightenment is better than Wootahs.

C:It tells you nothing whatever about what I believe.

AS: Well at least this thought is a little more interesting if you mean it. So tell me, are you saying that you think wootah's enlightenment is better than yours or the same?

C:
`Do you want to review this sentence?

AS: Where did I lose you?

You got lost, not me. Look back!

C:Saying; "Much of my transformation and ability to preservere I attribute to Jesus."Is an idiotic statement. My grandmother was real. I know who my grandmother was, I have evidence that she existed. All the other things that I am thankful for I can point to. If that is not good enough for you then okay, that is your problem, but don't give me the "same old, same old" shit. Because that is just a reflection of your lack of ability to make any value judgement between fantasy and reality.
Not my problem.

AS: So you are saying that Jesus was not real?

No real to Wootah as my grandmother was to me, obviously.

Are you confusing Jesus with God?
Nope. You are confusing a real person who held me on her knee and loved me, with a church advertising campaign.
I think history shows there was a man named Jesus who actually lived.
No relevant. Does history show that Jesu knew and helped and nurtured Wootah?
If you do not believe there was a man named jesus who lived and died then what reason do you have to believe any other book written by a human?
Not relevant. You are being silly.
What reason do you have to believe that Socrates lived and said things? Or Caesar? or anyone else in history who you did not personally know?
I do not give Socrates credit for my upbringing. I'm not disputing that Jesus might have been a historical character.
Do you REALLY what to pursue this ridiculous line of questioning?

Or can you not separate the two (God and Jesus) for the sake of debate?

I'll add just one more thing.
Wootah's attributing his welfare and work ethic to Jesus, is not only idiotic, but it is a serious insult to those real people in his life that have contributed to his being and to those he REALLY has to thank. This is horrific and inhuman.
If you cannot draw a distinction between real people whom you have shared your life, and some ancient pop star then I feel sorry for you.

[artisticsolution]

C:Prove me wrong!

AS: When did I say you were wrong? I am simply implying that it is impossible to know everything about everybody. Is that
[/color]
C:I dare to un-think.

AS: Is this the same as typists "aphilosophy"?

Nope. It is what the best philosophy has always been


AS: It tells us only that you "believe" that your source of enlightenment is better than Wootahs.

C:It tells you nothing whatever about what I believe.

AS: Well at least this thought is a little more interesting if you mean it. So tell me, are you saying that you think wootah's enlightenment is better than yours or the same?

C:
`Do you want to review this sentence?

AS: Where did I lose you?

You got lost, not me. Look back!

C:Saying; "Much of my transformation and ability to preservere I attribute to Jesus."Is an idiotic statement. My grandmother was real. I know who my grandmother was, I have evidence that she existed. All the other things that I am thankful for I can point to. If that is not good enough for you then okay, that is your problem, but don't give me the "same old, same old" shit. Because that is just a reflection of your lack of ability to make any value judgement between fantasy and reality.
Not my problem.

AS: So you are saying that Jesus was not real?

No real to Wootah as my grandmother was to me, obviously.

Are you confusing Jesus with God?
Nope. You are confusing a real person who held me on her knee and loved me, with a church advertising campaign.
I think history shows there was a man named Jesus who actually lived.
No relevant. Does history show that Jesu knew and helped and nurtured Wootah?
If you do not believe there was a man named jesus who lived and died then what reason do you have to believe any other book written by a human?
Not relevant. You are being silly.
What reason do you have to believe that Socrates lived and said things? Or Caesar? or anyone else in history who you did not personally know?
I do not give Socrates credit for my upbringing. I'm not disputing that Jesus might have been a historical character.
Do you REALLY what to pursue this ridiculous line of questioning?

Or can you not separate the two (God and Jesus) for the sake of debate?[/quote]

I'll add just one more thing.
Wootah's attributing his welfare and work ethic to Jesus, is not only idiotic, but it is a serious insult to those real people in his life that have contributed to his being and to those he REALLY has to thank. This is horrific and inhuman.
If you cannot draw a distinction between real people whom you have shared your life, and some ancient pop star then I feel sorry for you.

[/quote]

[chaz wyman]

C:Prove me wrong!

AS: When did I say you were wrong? I am simply implying that it is impossible to know everything about everybody. Is that
[/color]

I never claimed to know everything about everybody, nor did I say you said i was wrong. I said prove me wrong.

I do not give Socrates credit for my upbringing. I'm not disputing that Jesus might have been a historical character.
Do you REALLY what to pursue this ridiculous line of questioning?

Or can you not separate the two (God and Jesus) for the sake of debate?

I'll add just one more thing.
Wootah's attributing his welfare and work ethic to Jesus, is not only idiotic, but it is a serious insult to those real people in his life that have contributed to his being and to those he REALLY has to thank. This is horrific and inhuman.
If you cannot draw a distinction between real people whom you have shared your life, and some ancient pop star then I feel sorry for you.

[artisticsolution]

C: I said prove me wrong.

AS: You are purposely being dishonest in attempt to change the subject because you can't bring yourself to admit I may be right. You have taken me out of context on several occasions and changed the subject so many times it looks nothing like the original conversation. I see you do this so often in the forum that it has become funny to me. W.

As for you being wrong about wootah by implying he credits Jesus for his upbringing, I think you are wrong. I seem to remember wootah saying he changed to Christianity later in life. He felt he was being mislead by a devious person of another church or group. Anyway, it was a while ago I read that...before you came to the forum. So you will have to ask him about that as I don't remember all the detail. Still it is quite possible to have a desire to change your work ethic...it doesn't necessarily mean that it was the "real" people in ones life that contribute to that decision.

C:Wootah's attributing his welfare and work ethic to Jesus, is not only idiotic, but it is a serious insult to those real people in his life that have contributed to his being and to those he REALLY has to thank. This is horrific and inhuman.

AS: I happen to think your rudeness to wootah is horrific and inhuman. I think you simply enjoy turning this forum into the ego-lallapalooza philosophy hour starring chaz wyman.

C:If you cannot draw a distinction between real people whom you have shared your life, and some ancient pop star then I feel sorry for you.

AS: Save your pity for another forum. Stop being a martyr playing on emotion to win your arguments. It is really quite embarrassing.

[chaz wyman]

C: I said prove me wrong.

AS: You are purposely being dishonest in attempt to change the subject because you can't bring yourself to admit I may be right. You have taken me out of context on several occasions and changed the subject so many times it looks nothing like the original conversation. I see you do this so often in the forum that it has become funny to me. W.

What the fuck are you talking about?. I said "prove me wrong." Not what you wanted me to have said.
What is THE subject? And what do you think you are right about?

As for you being wrong about wootah by implying he credits Jesus for his upbringing, I think you are wrong.

Why the don't you ask him?
I am just taking him at his WORD. Where are YOU getting your information from?
You sound a bit ridiculous now.

I seem to remember wootah saying he changed to Christianity later in life. He felt he was being mislead by a devious person of another church or group. Anyway, it was a while ago I read that...before you came to the forum. So you will have to ask him about that as I don't remember all the detail. Still it is quite possible to have a desire to change your work ethic...it doesn't necessarily mean that it was the "real" people in ones life that contribute to that decision.

He said he attributed his success to Jesus. That is still ridiculous.


C:Wootah's attributing his welfare and work ethic to Jesus, is not only idiotic, but it is a serious insult to those real people in his life that have contributed to his being and to those he REALLY has to thank. This is horrific and inhuman.

AS: I happen to think your rudeness to wootah is horrific and inhuman. I think you simply enjoy turning this forum into the ego-lallapalooza philosophy hour starring chaz wyman.

How about your rudeness to me?

C:If you cannot draw a distinction between real people whom you have shared your life, and some ancient pop star then I feel sorry for you.

AS: Save your pity for another forum. Stop being a martyr playing on emotion to win your arguments. It is really quite embarrassing.

Stop ordering me about!
I'm not your husband! I suggest you find yourself another bitch.
If you don't like what I say then you know what you can do.

[artisticsolution]

How about your rudeness to me?

That's just for sport, m'boy! I thought you liked it...I mean you keep dishin' it an all....

[chaz wyman]

How about your rudeness to me?

That's just for sport, m'boy! I thought you liked it...I mean you keep dishin' it an all....

Good, but you can hardly attack me for the same can you?

[Wootah]

C:My late grandmother, my partner, my friends, the luck of having a halfway decent brain and curious outlook and questioning mind.
Being born in the West, shall I go on?

But that tells us nothing of why you are more enlightened than wootah. It tells us only that you "believe" that your source of enlightenment is better than Wootahs. You do not give any reason why your late grandma, partner, friends or being born in the west, make you more "enlightened" than Wootah who attributes his thankfulness to Jesus. So you were enlightened by a different person than wootah, big deal. What makes your "People" any more capable of enlightening a person than wootahs? You are saying nothing here...you are only thinking on a simplistic aesthetic level. Same old...same old....me vs. them attitude. You might as well slap a cross on your forehead, call yourself "the church of Chaz", and get a tax exemption.

Nice line of enquiry - still reading to see what Chaz says!

AS - if we scored points on this site or had a philosophical enquiry of the week you rated.

I would rate Chaz's thankfulness to ancestor worship or is not Chaz thankful to the amoeba that spawned him a zillion years ago?

[tttccc]

I am new to this site and found you all by "Google" ing "would rather die than get a job"...

This is the closest conversation around the sort of feeling I was having. I thought I was a deep thinker, but this forum may go a little beyond the level of which I think and speak.

Anyhow, I did not read to the bottom of all the conversation, although feel compelled to check in as I am a bit stuck on the words "work" and "job".. The conversation started with the word "job" but seemed to get confused along the way with the word "work".

They are far from the same meaning to me. I could work 24/7 around my passion, life lessons, life purpose...and the issue that led me here is the push from my husband to "get realistic" and 'get a job". This conversation comes up every now and again since I was without work when the small luxury design firm folded two years ago. I was able to take 6 months or so off and focus on the family and keep the kids out of day care.
I never felt the luxury of being without work though. I couldn't sit around eating bon bons, as I felt I needed to get to work fast to create my own Life's Work, a "job" that could provide more freedom and allowance for creativity. The problem is everything I've done the past time "off" has been basically in the closet. Frantically writing, researching, creating art and building on visionary ideas.

Nothing has launched, as there are so many levels that go into building a new thing , new systems that you know little about..so every time the big old conversation comes up, I frantically hit Craigslist with a pit in my stomach, turn to power point to start making a presentation to make my point show in the style and terms my husband may , just may, be able to a teensy bit grasp the surface of understanding in my much larger picture, that is impossible to describe in a linear, fact and point base model that he seems to need. (for the record, He is not my prospective client..)

I fear clocking in and clocking out and giving my time and energy over in return for a dollar that sustains a meaningless life. I am desperate to crack thru the surface of this shell that I've been incubating in since I started re-evaluation of my life two years ago, now in touch with my purpose and a couple new tools, thus it feels like death to give up when I can see the light, not that I would not strive to continue toward this goal, to live a sustainable life, achieving personal issues with acceptance of there being value, and necessity, in fees associated with something I love doing. Possibly even thrive on, emotionally, and/or spiritually, as well as being a means to sustain.

Job- a means to sustain. Work to Live.

Work- Sustainable; fluid. in and out. push and pull. give and take. life and work goes hand in hand, the give and receive is balanced in a universal flow. We are fed by feeding others what they need. We in turn feed others to get fed what we need.

i truly believe this is possible for all of us and will be.

Does anybody get me?? or should i put this energy and drive on the shelf for another lifetime, get over it, and get a job?

[Advocate]

I would rather die than work because the only work available to me, since i don't have my own resources to work with, is work that benefits others at my own expense. And i don't just mean time spent working for others per se, i mean the opportunity cost of a third of your life gone on top of the third you sleep. The only work i'd be ok doing for pay is work i'd be ok doing without pay if i could. Since neither is available, death is the better option.

[Advocate]

[quote=duszek post_id=97559 time=1325517319 user_id=3516]
Can it matter ?

Anything you do and get paid for and makes you feel good and not working.
Luckily, it is not the same for everyone.

A Hungarian felicologist with a difficult name argued not so long ago that you can feel happy working at the assemly line even, if you are in the right "flow".
[/quote]

Sure, an assembly line, because you can zone out and forget you're doing a task that an animal could do and is of no value to you as an individual human person. But most jobs require constant interruption and accommodation.