There is No Distinction Between Appearances and Things in Themselves
Re: There is No Distinction Between Appearances and Things in Themselves
"Things" are sets of attributes and boundary conditions. Those conditions are set according to purpose. Thus, all things are patterns with a purpose )and the resolution of the purpose determines the resolution of the pattern. An apple to an ordinary person is a much lower-resolution thing than the same apple to an apple vendor, even though it's made of the the identical material stuff.)
The distinction of appearances is inherent in the title itself. Appearances are Of something, external. That distinction is the core of all philosophy. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... y_X2Kbneo/) "Things in themselves" can only mean the set of characteristics that renders some arbitrary set of stuff manageable.
The distinction of appearances is inherent in the title itself. Appearances are Of something, external. That distinction is the core of all philosophy. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... y_X2Kbneo/) "Things in themselves" can only mean the set of characteristics that renders some arbitrary set of stuff manageable.
Re: There is No Distinction Between Appearances and Things in Themselves
So, now you want to make the claim that there are 'many' universes. As I say, adult human beings will 'try' absolutely ANY thing to "justify" and back up and support their ALREADY HELD BELIEFS, instead of changing and looking at things differently.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:27 pmAge wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:22 amThat may be your view, but obviously thee One Universe does NOT exist through many different Universes. For the very SIMPLE FACT that there can ever only be just One Universe.
Each universe is a fractal/fraction of the original universe where each fractal is distinct as a means of change to another fractal/fraction.
This may be true, but this does NOT counter NOR refute what I have been saying.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:57 pm Another example is the number one expressed recursively through many numbers. "All that there is" includes all acts of measurement as phenomena in themselves where "the many", as a series of phenomenon, is a phenomenon in itself as a series of phenomenon which exists.
In the dichotomy between the one and the many they both exist at the same time in different respects given they are both expression of all that there is.
What does "moves through itself" actually mean, to you?
The progression of one part through another part suggests each part as empty in itself. This emptiness of each part necessitates each part as progressing to another resulting in a self sustained loop. This loop, as with most loops, is empty given the parts which compose it cannot exist on there own terms. The universe, or all being, is a series of loops within loops with all loops being an approximation of one loop. An example of a series of rings within rings shows one ring as existing through many thus both one and many rings.
I agree the Universe does not exist as independent of "Its Self". To suggest such a thing would just be an absurdity.
But, to me, the Universe, Itself, is obviously independent of ANY thing else.
The universe is not independent of the parts which compose it just in the same manner as a series of rings within rings is not independent of the ring form and function.
Also, you claiming that " 'each part' is distinct " could be seen as somewhat countering, somewhat contradicting, and/or somewhat refuting your own claim that there is NO 'things-in-themselves. Each part as distinct is a means of change from one phenomena to another through a contrast. For example a bird cannot be observed on it's own terms except in contrast to a tree. The bird as a distinct phenomena is a means of change to another phenomena, in this case a tree.
I have not come across ANY one who says otherwise.
Thee Truth, however, is the apparent and seemingly separation or distinction between the "many", which you say is "each part which is distinct", is not actually there, other than in language and/or labels and names ONLY.
Language, labels and names are part of the universe as phenomena which exist as part of the universe.
By the way, what you wrote here in this quote actually contradicts your claims, and backs up and supports what I have been saying.
False, the universe exists as both one and many, both dependent upon itself through fractals and independent of itself as a means of change from one fractal to another.
The universe is dependent upon it fractals through which it exists.
It is independent of these fractals given each fractal is a variation of the original form.
Rarely will the adult human being ever admit that they are wrong or incorrect. They will also rarely, again if ever, even just realize that if they just changed their thinking a little bit, then they would be closer to seeing and understanding what thee actual Truth of things IS. They much prefer to HOLD ON to the thoughts that they have 'now', and 'try' absolutely ANY thing to "justify" those thoughts, rather than just admit that the thoughts they have now might just be wrong and might just need some changing, and/or fine tuning.
Re: There is No Distinction Between Appearances and Things in Themselves
Contradictions, as concepts thus phenomena, exist as part of the one. "The One" and "The Many" both exist under the concept of "all that there is" thus necessitating reality as triadic.Age wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:26 amSo, now you want to make the claim that there are 'many' universes. As I say, adult human beings will 'try' absolutely ANY thing to "justify" and back up and support their ALREADY HELD BELIEFS, instead of changing and looking at things differently.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:27 pmAge wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:22 am
That may be your view, but obviously thee One Universe does NOT exist through many different Universes. For the very SIMPLE FACT that there can ever only be just One Universe.
Each universe is a fractal/fraction of the original universe where each fractal is distinct as a means of change to another fractal/fraction.
This may be true, but this does NOT counter NOR refute what I have been saying.
In the dichotomy between the one and the many they both exist at the same time in different respects given they are both expression of all that there is.
What does "moves through itself" actually mean, to you?
The progression of one part through another part suggests each part as empty in itself. This emptiness of each part necessitates each part as progressing to another resulting in a self sustained loop. This loop, as with most loops, is empty given the parts which compose it cannot exist on there own terms. The universe, or all being, is a series of loops within loops with all loops being an approximation of one loop. An example of a series of rings within rings shows one ring as existing through many thus both one and many rings.
I agree the Universe does not exist as independent of "Its Self". To suggest such a thing would just be an absurdity.
But, to me, the Universe, Itself, is obviously independent of ANY thing else.
The universe is not independent of the parts which compose it just in the same manner as a series of rings within rings is not independent of the ring form and function.
Also, you claiming that " 'each part' is distinct " could be seen as somewhat countering, somewhat contradicting, and/or somewhat refuting your own claim that there is NO 'things-in-themselves. Each part as distinct is a means of change from one phenomena to another through a contrast. For example a bird cannot be observed on it's own terms except in contrast to a tree. The bird as a distinct phenomena is a means of change to another phenomena, in this case a tree.
I have not come across ANY one who says otherwise.
Thee Truth, however, is the apparent and seemingly separation or distinction between the "many", which you say is "each part which is distinct", is not actually there, other than in language and/or labels and names ONLY.
Language, labels and names are part of the universe as phenomena which exist as part of the universe.
By the way, what you wrote here in this quote actually contradicts your claims, and backs up and supports what I have been saying.
False, the universe exists as both one and many, both dependent upon itself through fractals and independent of itself as a means of change from one fractal to another.
The universe is dependent upon it fractals through which it exists.
It is independent of these fractals given each fractal is a variation of the original form.
And that is your belief. I am simply accepting all phenomena, including the abstraction of "the many" as a phenomena in itself.
Rarely will the adult human being ever admit that they are wrong or incorrect. They will also rarely, again if ever, even just realize that if they just changed their thinking a little bit, then they would be closer to seeing and understanding what thee actual Truth of things IS. They much prefer to HOLD ON to the thoughts that they have 'now', and 'try' absolutely ANY thing to "justify" those thoughts, rather than just admit that the thoughts they have now might just be wrong and might just need some changing, and/or fine tuning.
Re: There is No Distinction Between Appearances and Things in Themselves
You even have this completely and utterly WRONG. 'What' EXACTLY are you suggesting is, supposedly, "my belief"?
But you are SO BLINDED that you can NOT even SEE that the sum of EVERY thing is Everything as the One, and thee ONLY One.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:28 amContradictions, as concepts thus phenomena, exist as part of the one. "The One" and "The Many" both exist under the concept of "all that there is" thus necessitating reality as triadic.Age wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:26 amRarely will the adult human being ever admit that they are wrong or incorrect. They will also rarely, again if ever, even just realize that if they just changed their thinking a little bit, then they would be closer to seeing and understanding what thee actual Truth of things IS. They much prefer to HOLD ON to the thoughts that they have 'now', and 'try' absolutely ANY thing to "justify" those thoughts, rather than just admit that the thoughts they have now might just be wrong and might just need some changing, and/or fine tuning.
'All that there is' together, therefore, can ONLY be One Thing, which OBVIOUSLY 'has to be' independent of absolutely ANY thing else. This can NOT be ANY other way. Thee End.
You are FREE to simply accept ANY and ALL phenomena, as you so feel you have to or want to. But, just simply accepting ALL phenomena does NOT make ALL phenomena right NOR correct.
-
- Posts: 4257
- Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am
Re: There is No Distinction Between Appearances and Things in Themselves
Human beings admit to wrong all the time just not every single timeAge wrote:
Rarely will the adult human being ever admit that they are wrong or incorrect . They will also rarely again if ever even just realize that if they just changed their thinking a little bit then they would be closer to seeing and understanding what thee actual Truth of things IS . They much prefer to HOLD ON to the thoughts that they have now and try absolutely ANY thing to justify those thoughts rather than just admit that the thoughts they have now might just be wrong and might just need some changing and / or fine tuning .
I have zero intention of holding onto any thoughts that are wrong where that can actually be demonstrated
So I try not to have fixed thoughts about any thing for this very reason instead just let them be as they are
Re: There is No Distinction Between Appearances and Things in Themselves
I'm told i'm wrong all the time by people who are straw-manning or simply don't know how to make their argument salient. As such, those aren't productive conversations. An ultimate guru, a true arbiter of truth would have big problems finding anyone with the capacity to recognise them as such because most people don't have a capacity to recognise either truth or someone who recognises truth.surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:38 amHuman beings admit to wrong all the time just not every single timeAge wrote:
Rarely will the adult human being ever admit that they are wrong or incorrect . They will also rarely again if ever even just realize that if they just changed their thinking a little bit then they would be closer to seeing and understanding what thee actual Truth of things IS . They much prefer to HOLD ON to the thoughts that they have now and try absolutely ANY thing to justify those thoughts rather than just admit that the thoughts they have now might just be wrong and might just need some changing and / or fine tuning .
I have zero intention of holding onto any thoughts that are wrong where that can actually be demonstrated
So I try not to have fixed thoughts about any thing for this very reason instead just let them be as they are
Re: There is No Distinction Between Appearances and Things in Themselves
What you fail to see is under the summation of everything the concept of "the many" exists as real. There is both one and many universes just like there is one electron which exists through many electrons.Age wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:30 amYou even have this completely and utterly WRONG. 'What' EXACTLY are you suggesting is, supposedly, "my belief"?
. As I say, adult human beings will 'try' absolutely ANY thing to "justify" and back up and support their ALREADY HELD BELIEFS, instead of changing and looking at things differently.
But you are SO BLINDED that you can NOT even SEE that the sum of EVERY thing is Everything as the One, and thee ONLY One.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:28 amContradictions, as concepts thus phenomena, exist as part of the one. "The One" and "The Many" both exist under the concept of "all that there is" thus necessitating reality as triadic.Age wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:26 amRarely will the adult human being ever admit that they are wrong or incorrect. They will also rarely, again if ever, even just realize that if they just changed their thinking a little bit, then they would be closer to seeing and understanding what thee actual Truth of things IS. They much prefer to HOLD ON to the thoughts that they have 'now', and 'try' absolutely ANY thing to "justify" those thoughts, rather than just admit that the thoughts they have now might just be wrong and might just need some changing, and/or fine tuning.
False the sum of everything results in many parts behaving as one yet this one is composed of and composed many parts.
'All that there is' together, therefore, can ONLY be One Thing, which OBVIOUSLY 'has to be' independent of absolutely ANY thing else. This can NOT be ANY other way. Thee End.
You are FREE to simply accept ANY and ALL phenomena, as you so feel you have to or want to. But, just simply accepting ALL phenomena does NOT make ALL phenomena right NOR correct.
All phenomena exist under the sum total of "everything" thus the concept of "the many" exists. The universe, as accepting all phenomena as existing (including concepts and measurements), is both one and many thus triadic.
Re: There is No Distinction Between Appearances and Things in Themselves
I do NOT believe this. I also NEITHER disbelieve this. Therefore, this is NOT my belief.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:51 pm. As I say, adult human beings will 'try' absolutely ANY thing to "justify" and back up and support their ALREADY HELD BELIEFS, instead of changing and looking at things differently.
So, as I said, you are completely and utterly WRONG.
So, you say what I say, but then you say that this is false.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:28 amFalse the sum of everything results in many parts behaving as one yet this one is composed of and composed many parts.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:51 pmAll phenomena exist under the sum total of "everything" thus the concept of "the many" exists. The universe, as accepting all phenomena as existing (including concepts and measurements), is both one and many thus triadic.Age wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:30 am'All that there is' together, therefore, can ONLY be One Thing, which OBVIOUSLY 'has to be' independent of absolutely ANY thing else. This can NOT be ANY other way. Thee End.
You are FREE to simply accept ANY and ALL phenomena, as you so feel you have to or want to. But, just simply accepting ALL phenomena does NOT make ALL phenomena right NOR correct.
Where is the actual EVIDENCE or PROOF that I, supposedly, fail to see this?
Where is the actual EVIDENCE or PROOF that there are many universes?
Re: There is No Distinction Between Appearances and Things in Themselves
If 'human beings' did admit to wrong 'ALL THE TIME, then they MUST ALSO, logically, do it EVERY SINGLE TIME.surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:38 amHuman beings admit to wrong all the time just not every single timeAge wrote:
Rarely will the adult human being ever admit that they are wrong or incorrect . They will also rarely again if ever even just realize that if they just changed their thinking a little bit then they would be closer to seeing and understanding what thee actual Truth of things IS . They much prefer to HOLD ON to the thoughts that they have now and try absolutely ANY thing to justify those thoughts rather than just admit that the thoughts they have now might just be wrong and might just need some changing and / or fine tuning .
Read back through this forum, for actual evidence of just how rare wrongs are admitted to.
Also, take note that you will NOT admit to YOUR WRONG here, as well. (Unless of course you will now PROVE ME WRONG).
Okay.surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:38 am I have zero intention of holding onto any thoughts that are wrong where that can actually be demonstrated
Also, are you AWARE that there are thoughts within that body that are wrong, and which can actually be demonstrated to be wrong, but you are currently just NOT YET able to SEE that they are wrong?
But WHY 'try' not to have fixed thoughts about any thing?surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:38 am So I try not to have fixed thoughts about any thing for this very reason instead just let them be as they are
Why not just do it?
Re: There is No Distinction Between Appearances and Things in Themselves
Well here is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of BEING, just plain, WRONG.Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:11 pmI'm told i'm wrong all the time by people who are straw-manning or simply don't know how to make their argument salient.surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:38 amHuman beings admit to wrong all the time just not every single timeAge wrote:
Rarely will the adult human being ever admit that they are wrong or incorrect . They will also rarely again if ever even just realize that if they just changed their thinking a little bit then they would be closer to seeing and understanding what thee actual Truth of things IS . They much prefer to HOLD ON to the thoughts that they have now and try absolutely ANY thing to justify those thoughts rather than just admit that the thoughts they have now might just be wrong and might just need some changing and / or fine tuning .
I have zero intention of holding onto any thoughts that are wrong where that can actually be demonstrated
So I try not to have fixed thoughts about any thing for this very reason instead just let them be as they are
And what will be SHOWN, and discovered, is that this will just NOT be accepted as being the actual Truth.
Well if you explained to the person, at the time, that they are, so called, "straw-manning", AND provided the actual EVIDENCE and PROOF for this, and, if you explained to the "other" how to actually make their argument, so called, "salient", then that would be you being actually productive in the conversation.
But, if you do NOT do these things, then it is you who is NOT creating a productive conversations.
But they ALL do have the capacity, within them. This capacity has just been shrunk, or lost, through incorrect teachings, and learning, during their past experiences.surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:38 am An ultimate guru, a true arbiter of truth would have big problems finding anyone with the capacity to recognise them as such because most people don't have a capacity to recognise either truth or someone who recognises truth.
Re: There is No Distinction Between Appearances and Things in Themselves
An example of the one and many is a single line composed of multiple lines. One line exists as repeated yet this repetition necessitates a multiplicity.Age wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:20 amI do NOT believe this. I also NEITHER disbelieve this. Therefore, this is NOT my belief.
So, as I said, you are completely and utterly WRONG.
That is your belief.
So, you say what I say, but then you say that this is false.
Being is One and Many.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:51 pmThe One is the summation of everything including that which appears as illusion.Age wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:30 am'All that there is' together, therefore, can ONLY be One Thing, which OBVIOUSLY 'has to be' independent of absolutely ANY thing else. This can NOT be ANY other way. Thee End.
You are FREE to simply accept ANY and ALL phenomena, as you so feel you have to or want to. But, just simply accepting ALL phenomena does NOT make ALL phenomena right NOR correct.
If truth and falsity exist as part of the One in necessitates the One as dualistic.
All phenomena exist under the sum total of "everything" thus the concept of "the many" exists. The universe, as accepting all phenomena as existing (including concepts and measurements), is both one and many thus triadic.Where is the actual EVIDENCE or PROOF that I, supposedly, fail to see this?
The quote of you stating: "But you are SO BLINDED that you can NOT even SEE that the sum of EVERY thing is Everything as the One, and thee ONLY One."
Where is the actual EVIDENCE or PROOF that there are many universes?
In how the universe exists as a classification of a summation of parts as matter and space.. Anything which exists as a summation of parts of matter and space exists as a universe. Given multiple phenomenon results in multiple distinctions and multiple distinctions necessitate multiple individual entities there are multiple universes as multiple distinct yet individual entities. Multiple universes exist as multiple clusters of matter and space.
Given the concept of the many exists as part of the universe, the many is a means through which they universe exists.
The summation of everything necessitates the one existing through the many much in the same manner the summation of all numbers necessitating multiple ones as existing through many numbers composed of multiple ones.
Re: There is No Distinction Between Appearances and Things in Themselves
You just said 'you're wrong, they do have the capacity' and 'because it's hidden within' which is introducing a different dimension of understanding not related to my contention and therefore not a valid refutation. My contention, clearly and properly understood is; They do not have the capacity <at the moment in question, when it is time to recognise truth, etc.>. I was definitely referencing a particular moment, not their overall worth as human beings or something. I'd call that a straw-man argument by definition. However, perhaps i could find another phrase than "don't have the capacity" that can't so easily be understood across boundaries to where it does not apply.Age wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:36 amWell here is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of BEING, just plain, WRONG.Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:11 pmI'm told i'm wrong all the time by people who are straw-manning or simply don't know how to make their argument salient.surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:38 am
Human beings admit to wrong all the time just not every single time
I have zero intention of holding onto any thoughts that are wrong where that can actually be demonstrated
So I try not to have fixed thoughts about any thing for this very reason instead just let them be as they are
And what will be SHOWN, and discovered, is that this will just NOT be accepted as being the actual Truth.
Well if you explained to the person, at the time, that they are, so called, "straw-manning", AND provided the actual EVIDENCE and PROOF for this, and, if you explained to the "other" how to actually make their argument, so called, "salient", then that would be you being actually productive in the conversation.
But, if you do NOT do these things, then it is you who is NOT creating a productive conversations.
But they ALL do have the capacity, within them. This capacity has just been shrunk, or lost, through incorrect teachings, and learning, during their past experiences.surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:38 am An ultimate guru, a true arbiter of truth would have big problems finding anyone with the capacity to recognise them as such because most people don't have a capacity to recognise either truth or someone who recognises truth.
Re: There is No Distinction Between Appearances and Things in Themselves
The example that there is only One and nothing else is thee Universe, Itself.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:53 pmAn example of the one and many is a single line composed of multiple lines. One line exists as repeated yet this repetition necessitates a multiplicity.Age wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:20 amI do NOT believe this. I also NEITHER disbelieve this. Therefore, this is NOT my belief.
So, as I said, you are completely and utterly WRONG.
That is your belief.
So, you say what I say, but then you say that this is false.
Being is One and Many.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:51 pm
The One is the summation of everything including that which appears as illusion.
If truth and falsity exist as part of the One in necessitates the One as dualistic.
All phenomena exist under the sum total of "everything" thus the concept of "the many" exists. The universe, as accepting all phenomena as existing (including concepts and measurements), is both one and many thus triadic.Where is the actual EVIDENCE or PROOF that I, supposedly, fail to see this?
The quote of you stating: "But you are SO BLINDED that you can NOT even SEE that the sum of EVERY thing is Everything as the One, and thee ONLY One."
Where is the actual EVIDENCE or PROOF that there are many universes?
In how the universe exists as a classification of a summation of parts as matter and space.. Anything which exists as a summation of parts of matter and space exists as a universe. Given multiple phenomenon results in multiple distinctions and multiple distinctions necessitate multiple individual entities there are multiple universes as multiple distinct yet individual entities. Multiple universes exist as multiple clusters of matter and space.
Given the concept of the many exists as part of the universe, the many is a means through which they universe exists.
The summation of everything necessitates the one existing through the many much in the same manner the summation of all numbers necessitating multiple ones as existing through many numbers composed of multiple ones.
You can provide MANY examples of other things. But, by definition, there can EVER ONLY BE One Universe.
Re: There is No Distinction Between Appearances and Things in Themselves
WHEN and WHERE did I, supposedly, say; "I am wrong"?Advocate wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:08 pmYou just said 'you're wrong,Age wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:36 amWell here is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of BEING, just plain, WRONG.
And what will be SHOWN, and discovered, is that this will just NOT be accepted as being the actual Truth.
Well if you explained to the person, at the time, that they are, so called, "straw-manning", AND provided the actual EVIDENCE and PROOF for this, and, if you explained to the "other" how to actually make their argument, so called, "salient", then that would be you being actually productive in the conversation.
But, if you do NOT do these things, then it is you who is NOT creating a productive conversations.
But they ALL do have the capacity, within them. This capacity has just been shrunk, or lost, through incorrect teachings, and learning, during their past experiences.surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:38 am An ultimate guru, a true arbiter of truth would have big problems finding anyone with the capacity to recognise them as such because most people don't have a capacity to recognise either truth or someone who recognises truth.
Okay, if you say so.
But what happens if "another" is just expressing an understanding of what is ACTUALLY True, but which is just not related to 'YOUR' contention, which is NOT actually True, anyway?
Just wondering, from your perspective, whose fault is it if YOUR contention is NOT clearly and properly understood?
Seems like I was ACTUALLY ALLUDING TO WHY they do not have the capacity AT THE MOMENT IN QUESTION, which would mean that I was actually introducing the dimension of EXPLAINING WHY things have occurred and are happening AT THE MOMENT IN QUESTION.
By the way, did I HAVE TO 'refute' YOUR contention? Can I NOT just elaborate on YOUR contention, and/or explain what and/or why that particular thing happens and occurs, and/or just introduce further knowledge and understanding about YOUR contention?
Yes you could find another phrase, very simply and easily, which can so easily be understood across boundaries to where it does not apply. You find this be just being COMPLETELY OPEN and thus just LOOKING AT what thee actual Truth of things IS.Advocate wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:08 pm I was definitely referencing a particular moment, not their overall worth as human beings or something. I'd call that a straw-man argument by definition. However, perhaps i could find another phrase than "don't have the capacity" that can't so easily be understood across boundaries to where it does not apply.
For example; If you wanted to claim thee actual Truth, then just say; Most adult people lose the capacity to recognize either truth, or someone who recognizes truth, some of the time.
ALL issues and problems, here, solved, and ONLY thee Truth is being SEEN, and expressed.
Re: There is No Distinction Between Appearances and Things in Themselves
One universe is composed of multiple universes considering a universe is a classification of a grouping of matter and space. The problem is one of classification.Age wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:30 amThe example that there is only One and nothing else is thee Universe, Itself.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:53 pmAn example of the one and many is a single line composed of multiple lines. One line exists as repeated yet this repetition necessitates a multiplicity.Age wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:20 am
I do NOT believe this. I also NEITHER disbelieve this. Therefore, this is NOT my belief.
So, as I said, you are completely and utterly WRONG.
That is your belief.
So, you say what I say, but then you say that this is false.
Being is One and Many.
Where is the actual EVIDENCE or PROOF that I, supposedly, fail to see this?
The quote of you stating: "But you are SO BLINDED that you can NOT even SEE that the sum of EVERY thing is Everything as the One, and thee ONLY One."
Where is the actual EVIDENCE or PROOF that there are many universes?
In how the universe exists as a classification of a summation of parts as matter and space.. Anything which exists as a summation of parts of matter and space exists as a universe. Given multiple phenomenon results in multiple distinctions and multiple distinctions necessitate multiple individual entities there are multiple universes as multiple distinct yet individual entities. Multiple universes exist as multiple clusters of matter and space.
Given the concept of the many exists as part of the universe, the many is a means through which they universe exists.
The summation of everything necessitates the one existing through the many much in the same manner the summation of all numbers necessitating multiple ones as existing through many numbers composed of multiple ones.
You can provide MANY examples of other things. But, by definition, there can EVER ONLY BE One Universe.
The one exists through the many and the many is an approximation of the one considering the one cannot be known in its totality.
We observe the one through the many thus the many is a facet of the one. This would be no different than seeing one line as composed of multiple lines, the one line is strictly many lines grouped together.
The one and the many are inseperable. The universe is both one and many.