Trump - a puzzling enigma

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Nick_A
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Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by Nick_A »

henry quirk wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:06 am
Lacewing wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:07 am Prominent Republicans Who Don't Support Donald Trump

> 73 former Republican national security officials: Say Trump is "dangerously unfit to serve".

> William H. McRaven, admiral who directed the raid that killed Osama bin Laden: “Our republic is under attack from Trump. President Trump has shown he doesn’t have the qualities necessary to be a good commander-in-chief.”

> Former President George W. Bush: Won’t support the re-election of Mr. Trump.

> Colin Powell, former secretary of state under George W. Bush: "The one word I have to use with respect to what he's been doing for the last several years is the word I would never have used before, never would have used with any of the four presidents I worked for: He lies," Powell said. "He lies about things, and he gets away with it because people will not hold him accountable."

> Miles Taylor, former senior Trump administration member: "Given what I have experienced in the administration, I have to support Joe Biden for president and even though I am not a Democrat, even though I disagree on key issues, I'm confident that Joe Biden will protect the country and I'm confident that he won't make the same mistakes as this President."

> Mitt Romney, Republican Senator: “Unprecedented, historic corruption: an American president commutes the sentence of a person convicted by a jury of lying to shield that very president.”

> John Bolton, former national security advisor: "I don't think he's fit for office," Bolton said of Trump. "I don't think he has the competence to carry out the job."

> Rick Snyder, former Republican Michigan governor: "President Trump lacks a moral compass" and "ignores the truth."

> Jeff Flake, former Senator of Arizona: Publicly expressed his disdain for another Trump term.

> Meg Whitman, current Quibi CEO and former eBay CEO: “I’m a longtime Republican and a longtime CEO. And let me tell you, Donald Trump has no clue how to run a business, let alone an economy.”

> John Kasich, longtime Republican and former governor of Ohio: “I’m a lifelong Republican. But that attachment holds second place to my responsibility to my country.”

> George Conway: One of the founders of The Lincoln Project, which is a group of Republicans who absolutely despise Trump and what he’s doing to our country.

While former top military leaders like Mattis and John Kelly are technically non-partisan, they both served in Trump's administration:

> Mattis said Trump made a "mockery of our Constitution" and called him "the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people.”

> Kelly, Trump's former chief of staff and homeland security secretary, agreed with Mattis' comments.
Oh my gosh! RINOs and globalists say it: so it must be so!

Love this one, in particular...

Given what I have experienced in the administration, I have to support Joe Biden for president and even though I am not a Democrat, even though I disagree on key issues, I'm confident that Joe Biden will protect the country and I'm confident that he won't make the same mistakes as this President.

A repub (fundamentally, a social & fiscal conservative) is gonna vote for a man who'll raise taxes, expand the size and power of gov, who supports the green new deal, who is backed by commies, er socialists like Saunders and Cortez. Worst, this person will vote for Smokin' Joe knowin' Joe, with his cognitive dysfunction, won't actually be in charge and probably won't even serve out one full term (The blowjob queen has new furniture for the Oval on order).

Some republican... :thumbsdown:

Lace, pony up a legit, formal, psych eval.

This flailin' about is so, you know, freshmen year.

Shit, or get off the pot.
It is hard in politics to support American principles and values. There is no money in it. Money is made by becoming part of the political establishment. They have inherited the goose that laid the golden eggs. They have killed the goose and now they are taking the eggs for themselves until they are gone.
The Republicans are now the working-class party while the Democrats are the party of the political establishment.
The beautiful people and silicon value have united to promote the power of the establishment and now the working people have been taken advantage of. Sites like google, twitter, and facebook are controlled to promote the establishment. So it is not surprisng to read rinos opposing Trump. There is too much money in supporting the establishment.

Trump is the outsider's outsider. He has enough money so cannot be bought and has the annoying habit of keeping his promises. He gives hope to the working class who are becoming increasingly frustrated by the rich beautiful people. Nancy Pelosi was just caught getting her hair done while the shop is closed to the working class. The beautiful people of the establisment are now "entitled." Nancy pelosi is one of the beautiful people and like Marie Antoinette, cannot be put in the same class as the little people so she gets her hair done and the working class women get bupkis.

The upcoming election pits those siding with the beautiful people of the establishment against the working class people the ideals and principles of America support. Trump supports the working class so I support Trump.
commonsense
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Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by commonsense »

henry quirk wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:48 am
commonsense wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:27 pm
henry quirk wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:23 pm

Done better how?
You’re kidding, right?
c'mon, guy: don't do a lacewing (He's the worst! How is he the worst! Well, if you don't know, I'm won't waste my time telling you!).

It's a crap move.

If you think Trump handled beer virus poorly, is handling beer virus poorly, then spit how the particulars.

Shit, or get off the pot.
Alright. The deaths represent death by suffocation, a horrible way to die. Trump could say it hurts him that so many have met that fate instead of shucking it off by saying that’s not so many or that it’s better than deaths from the flu. Trump could have sadly announced that we would still be dealing with this for 9 months or longer instead of his saying that it would all go away on its own in a matter of less than 3 months. Trump could have refrained from suggesting that injections of disinfectants should be able to cure the virus.And on and on...
PeteJ
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Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by PeteJ »

Lacewing wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:55 pm Harper West, a clinical psychologist who studies emotional problems as adaptive responses to fear, trauma, and lack of secure attachment, was interviewed about the odd relationship between Donald Trump and his supporters. West is an expert in shame, domestic violence, and in surviving narcissistic abuse by parents and partners. Her book, Pack Leader Psychology, won the Ben Franklin Award for Psychology.

Here are some excerpts from that interview with her:

> I compare Trump to an abusive personality. Abusers dominate and take advantage of their victims, who may be completely unaware of the abuse. Many Trump supporters seem clueless to the harm he is causing them.

> Abusive and authoritarian personalities create an effect not much unlike a cult, with some people becoming spellbound and submissive to a charismatic leader.

> Provoking fear is something all authoritarian leaders do because they know how effective it is at securing fervent supporters. When our brains are hijacked by fear, our ability to think rationally goes out the window. We become self-absorbed with short-term physical or emotional survival, a way of thinking that does not lend itself to comprehending complex, long-term problems.

> Trump is an extreme example of what I call an “other-blamer”. These types of people, due to their childhood attachment traumas, have low self-worth and are overly sensitive to shaming experiences, such as being criticized, making mistakes, failing, or being “less than” in any way. To manage shame they learned to blame-shift to others to preserve their fragile psyches. This shows up in an inability to be accountable and admit mistakes with equanimity. “Other-blamers” are an abusive style of personality, since offloading blame to others creates unfair and unbalanced relationships and can even reach severe levels of physical violence.

> “Other-blamers” see nothing wrong with Trump lashing out in rage or blame. In fact, they applaud it. This is exactly what they wish to do in their lives — rage and blame to feel powerful and keep criticism at bay. Trump’s supporters love it when he refuses to admit he is wrong, because they, too, do not like to be held accountable. In his entitlement, over-confidence and bloated ego, they see themselves and feel vindicated. They can relate to his fear of accountability, because they suffer from the same trait. Seeing authoritarian, immoral and unethical behavior in a successful billionaire, they conclude that these are not faults, but positive attributes.

> This type of person is going to be very difficult to turn away from their true belief in Trump, because to do so they would, in essence, have to reject themselves.

> I wish I could say Trump supporters are well-informed and have a healthy relationship with the truth, but the research is clear that many get their news from a very restricted selection of sources that tend to corroborate their limited viewpoint and that tend to be very fact-averse, such as Fox News.

> But from a psychological perspective, we can also understand that most of these stubborn Trump supporters continue to back him for emotional reasons that go beyond a misunderstanding of the facts on policy positions.

> “Other-blamers” are in general not open-minded, which can lead them to be misinformed. To learn new information requires an admission that one does not already know that information, which can provoke feelings of inadequacy in “other-blamers”. In response, they are often unwilling to read, think deeply, or be well-informed, which by all accounts describes Trump and seems to describe many of his supporters.

> To acknowledge one is wrong takes good shame tolerance and personal fortitude, which Trump and many of his supporters apparently do not have.

Full article:
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/03/trump- ... nts=disqus
This precisely sums up my opinion. It's baffling to me when people cannot see these faults, but I'm less baffled having read this.
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Lacewing
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Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by Lacewing »

PeteJ wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:04 am This precisely sums up my opinion. It's baffling to me when people cannot see these faults, but I'm less baffled having read this.
I'm glad you found some value in it too. When faced with senselessness, it helps to hear some educated and reputable explanations.

If Trump-supporters were seeing all of these behaviors in a Democratic leader, I'm quite certain they would not excuse it or ignore it as they do with Trump. They would think it horrific, absurd, and insane... which is the truth. This is what shows how emotional their "blindness" is. They have lost the ability to assess an individual based on truth, because their own identity/reality is tied to ideas they are emotionally rabid with. To shift out of that would destroy/invalidate who they think they are. It's like a violent mass existential crisis of epic proportions. And it is not attributed to a lack of theism, as some theists might suggest -- it is happening, rather, for anyone who aligns themselves so rigidly with certain ideas, that they can no longer discern or accept anything to the contrary of those ideas. And the world is full of contrary! The destructive potential of the insatiable human ego and demand for control over reality are being demonstrated in a huge wave. I hope it doesn't wipe us all out.
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henry quirk
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Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by henry quirk »

The deaths represent death by suffocation, a horrible way to die. Trump could say it hurts him that so many have met that fate instead of shucking it off by saying that’s not so many or that it’s better than deaths from the flu.

How do you know he hasn't hasn't commented about those things, in the way you think he should?


Trump could have sadly announced that we would still be dealing with this for 9 months or longer instead of his saying that it would all go away on its own in a matter of less than 3 months.

He might have if Birx & Fauci hadn't been all over the map with their recommendations.


Trump could have refrained from suggesting that injections of disinfectants should be able to cure the virus.

And UV, don't forget about his musings about UV. Thing is: disinfectants and UV are actually bein' looked at, by scientists, as a means of treatment.


And on and on...

Yes, Lace, I know: the list is endless...you just can't be bothered to actually list anything.
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Lacewing
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Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by Lacewing »

henry quirk wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:18 pm The deaths represent death by suffocation, a horrible way to die. Trump could say it hurts him that so many have met that fate instead of shucking it off by saying that’s not so many or that it’s better than deaths from the flu.

How do you know he hasn't hasn't commented about those things, in the way you think he should?


Trump could have sadly announced that we would still be dealing with this for 9 months or longer instead of his saying that it would all go away on its own in a matter of less than 3 months.

He might have if Birx & Fauci hadn't been all over the map with their recommendations.


Trump could have refrained from suggesting that injections of disinfectants should be able to cure the virus.

And UV, don't forget about his musings about UV. Thing is: disinfectants and UV are actually bein' looked at, by scientists, as a means of treatment.


And on and on...

Yes, Lace, I know: the list is endless...you just can't be bothered to actually list anything.
Those comments were from commonsense. Yes, you dismiss everything from everyone if it's to the contrary of what you say.
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henry quirk
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Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by henry quirk »

Lacewing wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:22 pm
henry quirk wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:18 pm The deaths represent death by suffocation, a horrible way to die. Trump could say it hurts him that so many have met that fate instead of shucking it off by saying that’s not so many or that it’s better than deaths from the flu.

How do you know he hasn't hasn't commented about those things, in the way you think he should?


Trump could have sadly announced that we would still be dealing with this for 9 months or longer instead of his saying that it would all go away on its own in a matter of less than 3 months.

He might have if Birx & Fauci hadn't been all over the map with their recommendations.


Trump could have refrained from suggesting that injections of disinfectants should be able to cure the virus.

And UV, don't forget about his musings about UV. Thing is: disinfectants and UV are actually bein' looked at, by scientists, as a means of treatment.


And on and on...

Yes, Lace, I know: the list is endless...you just can't be bothered to actually list anything.
Those comments were from commonsense. Yes, you dismiss everything from everyone if it's to the contrary of what you say.
Yes, I'm mockin' him by comparin' him to you.

Yes, I dismiss all manner of things: I dismiss with style, with just cause, with reason, and with evidence.

You, like many, proclaim, rarely pony with evidence (and, when you do, it's just more opinion), and you never actually think things through (you're a great emoter).

I offer actual gritty & raw substance; you, pretty colors & shiny surfaces.
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Lacewing
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Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by Lacewing »

henry quirk wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:31 pm I dismiss with style, with just cause, with reason, and with evidence.
According to you.
henry quirk wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:31 pmyou never actually think things through
According to you.
henry quirk wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:31 pmI offer actual gritty & raw substance; you, pretty colors & shiny surfaces.
According to you.

Get over yourself.

Your inability to see beyond your own prized opinions is not intelligence. And your intolerance of other people's views and the expression of them is continually spit back as only an arrogant but ignorant asshole can do.
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henry quirk
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"Get over yourself."

Post by henry quirk »

Good advice: tell it to lil girl in the mirror.
Impenitent
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Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by Impenitent »

don't worry, they are already predicting a Trump landslide victory but not to despair, when they get done counting the mail in ballots, comrade biden will be declared god and the civil war will begin...

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... tion-night

-Imp
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henry quirk
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"the civil war will begin..."

Post by henry quirk »

It's happenin' now.

Blood done been shed (on both sides).

Everyone's just waitin' on Nov 4 to go full-bore.
Nick_A
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Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by Nick_A »

Lacewing
> Trump is an extreme example of what I call an “other-blamer”. These types of people, due to their childhood attachment traumas, have low self-worth and are overly sensitive to shaming experiences, such as being criticized, making mistakes, failing, or being “less than” in any way. To manage shame they learned to blame-shift to others to preserve their fragile psyches. This shows up in an inability to be accountable and admit mistakes with equanimity. “Other-blamers” are an abusive style of personality, since offloading blame to others creates unfair and unbalanced relationships and can even reach severe levels of physical violence.

> “Other-blamers” see nothing wrong with Trump lashing out in rage or blame. In fact, they applaud it. This is exactly what they wish to do in their lives — rage and blame to feel powerful and keep criticism at bay. Trump’s supporters love it when he refuses to admit he is wrong, because they, too, do not like to be held accountable. In his entitlement, over-confidence and bloated ego, they see themselves and feel vindicated. They can relate to his fear of accountability, because they suffer from the same trait. Seeing authoritarian, immoral and unethical behavior in a successful billionaire, they conclude that these are not faults, but positive attributes.

> This type of person is going to be very difficult to turn away from their true belief in Trump, because to do so they would, in essence, have to reject themselves.
And now as Paul Harvey used to say “here is the rest of the story”
“Democracy extends the sphere of individual freedom, socialism restricts it. Democracy attaches all possible value to each man; socialism makes each man a mere agent, a mere number. Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville
Those like Harper West do not understand America so naturally they see no logic in defending it from attack. Trump defends American principles and values and those who support Trump are called “blamers.”along with Trump. So I’ve evolved from being one of Hillary’s deplorables into one of Helen’s blamers.
Trump’s supporters love it when he refuses to admit he is wrong, because they, too, do not like to be held accountable.
But suppose defending America is not wrong so there is nothing to admit. Those who support socialism seek “equality in restraint and servitude.” But this isn’t for them. They consider themselves the intellectuals so not to be confused with the deplorables and the blamers. They are the beautiful people and cannot be confused with the deplorables and blamers.
This type of person is going to be very difficult to turn away from their true belief in Trump, because to do so they would, in essence, have to reject themselves.
Very true. For me to reject my belief in the meaning and purpose of America and the value of liberty Trump is supporting, I would have to reject myself. She has her belief in the supremacy of the indoctrinated intellectuals like herself and I believe in those Hillary and Helen call deplorables and blamers. So for Helen to call me names I take her blaming as an unintended compliment from a foolish woman
Dubious
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Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by Dubious »

No puzzling enigma just a loathsome decrepit buffoon who borders on treason. Makes friends with the likes of Putin and Kim Jong-dung while disparaging the fallen. If that fucker's nose grew an inch for every lie he told it would be over 20,000 inches long. Trying to find a single redeeming feature proved to be an abject failure. Some in his family obviously know him best and have warned against him.
PeteJ
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Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by PeteJ »

Here's one view of the strange phenomena that is Trump's support. https://www.vox.com/2020/9/2/21409364/t ... ket-newtab
commonsense
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Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by commonsense »

Lacewing wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:22 pm
henry quirk wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:18 pm The deaths represent death by suffocation, a horrible way to die. Trump could say it hurts him that so many have met that fate instead of shucking it off by saying that’s not so many or that it’s better than deaths from the flu.

How do you know he hasn't hasn't commented about those things, in the way you think he should?


Trump could have sadly announced that we would still be dealing with this for 9 months or longer instead of his saying that it would all go away on its own in a matter of less than 3 months.

He might have if Birx & Fauci hadn't been all over the map with their recommendations.


Trump could have refrained from suggesting that injections of disinfectants should be able to cure the virus.

And UV, don't forget about his musings about UV. Thing is: disinfectants and UV are actually bein' looked at, by scientists, as a means of treatment.


And on and on...

Yes, Lace, I know: the list is endless...you just can't be bothered to actually list anything.
Those comments were from commonsense. Yes, you dismiss everything from everyone if it's to the contrary of what you say.
Yes, those are my words in bold. I think I did pretty well at asserting my points, considering Hank baited me and then was only able to make some mealy-mouthed responses.
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