Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:41 pm
>What is "your potential"?
Our actual potential is whatever actually occurs, since everything is causal, but in the vernacular sense, our potential is our best selves that we can recognize the actual capacity to pursue.. something like that.
So, I ask 'you' for 'your' potential, (since it was 'you' claiming that if one says that the potential within EVERY one is the EXACT SAME 'must be' living in some "alternate universe"), BUT your response is in relation to 'our potential', and even STARTS with the words "our actual potential". The obvious contradiction and absurdity of this is STRIKINGLY BRILLIANT.
Saying, "is whatever actually occurs" REVEALS that you actually have absolutely NO idea at all. If 'everything is causal', then 'potential' is causal, and thus always changing. So, you could NEVER know what someone's potential is from minute to minute. Therefore, your claim here is just absurd.
Also, in what particular country or region is your, supposed, "vernacular sense" in relation to EXACTLY?
And, if 'our potential' is [to be] 'our best selves that we can recognize the actual capacity to pursue, then this INFERS or at least IMPLIES that 'the potential within EVERY one is the EXACT SAME'. Which, quite humorously, when I said that you said that I must be living in one of those alternate universes that you have been hearing so much about.
Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:41 pm
Oh, judging from the next question you meant me specifically.
Yes.
The word 'your', in a question posed to 'you', is usually in relation to 'you', specifically.
Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:41 pm
My potential is infinite (that being a direction - keep going, not a destination), in that i've solved philosophy and have at least the basic characteristics of the hypothetical best possible world leader.
Being just a "world leader", or just having the characteristics of being the best possible world leader, seems like a very SHORTENED potential if ones potential is supposedly INFINITE.
Also, if we were to take a look at the majority of the, so called, "world leaders" in these days when this is being written, then being a 'best possible' "world leader" would be relatively NOTHING AT ALL.
In fact if I were to take a bet EVERY human being under the age of seven could be and would be a BETTER "world leader" than the current ones, (in the days of when this is written).
Those children could, at least, teach what love, life, and living is truly about. And, the younger the child the BETTER teacher/leader they actually ARE.
Also, how have you, supposedly, "solved philosophy"?
And, to you, what are the "basic characteristics of the hypothetical 'best possible world leader', EXACTLY?
Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:41 pm
My potential in the practical sense - what will circumstantially actually happen, is nil, like 99.99% of everyone who has ever lived.
If 'your potential' of happening is NIL, then you OBVIOUSLY have given up and are NOT 'trying to' live up to 'your potential'.
Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:41 pm
>How does 'it' differ from "others"?
There is a critical distinction that can be used here between do-ers and be-ers. Be-ers just want to exist. They don't care how things work or who's running the show if their shower turns on and they can get groceries. The Be-ers are those who attain to something greater both for themselves individually and for the species/race/planet/what-have-you. Most people are do-ers. I prefer the term Morlock, but not everyone gets the reference.
Are you aware that you wrote "be-ers" just want to exist and do not care how things work or who is running the show, and that "be-ers" are also those who attain to something greater both for themselves individually and for the species/race/planet/what-have-you?
Will you clear up this contradiction?
Also, as you explained you are OBVIOUSLY just being one of those who do NOT care how things work or who is running the show.
Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:41 pm
>And, what does 'love' actually mean, to you?
I'm emotionally stunted and unqualified to answer that question in a manner that would be meaningful in a larger discussion.
Sounds like you actually have some MORE to "solve" in relation to 'philosophy'.
Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:41 pm
I accept a generic version of the word as i understand other people to understand it, then try to elevate it by making it more comprehensible and useful.
But you have NOT done any such thing at all.
You have NOT even CLARIFIED what the, so called, "generic version of the word 'love' is", "as you understand other people to understand it", (whatever that actually means), let alone ever trying to elvate that 'understanding' by making it more comprehensible and useful. You may do this within that head, but if you can NOT or will NOT do this in written words here, in this forum, then what you 'accept' is completely and utterly UNKNOWN to me, and "others".
From what I am observing is a human being who NOT actually KNOW what they are talking about, but is 'trying' their very hardest to appear as though they do.
Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:41 pm
>How do you 'love' someone, and, how do you 'stop loving' someone?
Emotions are beyond our control (the salience part of the three contingencies of "spiritual" matters), but we can learn to control our reactions to them or hypothetically train our subconscious to tamp them down in advance.
What has this, another, attempt at distraction actually have to do with the actual clarifying question I posed to you?
Also, because of the actual amount of absurdity, contradiction, and confusion being expressed in your sentence here I will not even attempt to ask you to clarify this.
Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:41 pm
>How do you KNOW some one and EVERY one's potential, AND, when do KNOW when someone is not trying to live up to 'their' potential?
I don't know.
So, WHY make the claim from the outset?
Also, and by the way, I thank you profusely for being OPEN and Honest, and for answering EVERY question I pose to you. This is a sign of a True human being, and their True potential.
Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:41 pm
This is just the starting point for the discussion.
Okay. But going by your first response to me in this thread it appears that you already have a conclusion, which you already BELIEVE is true.
Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:41 pm
Love is one of humanity's most important and meaningful concepts and we should treat it with deference and improve it just as we should improve everything else with potential.
Sounds GREAT, to me.
But when I asked you what 'love' actually means, to you, you did NOT provide us with ANY concept at all, let alone the most important and meaningful concept, which we could at least START to treat with deference and START to improve.
I suggest that if you want to make the STARTING point for a discussion, then do NOT start it by making a claim, which you OBVIOUSLY do not have absolutely ANY thing at all to back up and support your claim. What you are doing to provide a starting point for a discussion is just expressing your own ALREADY HELD BELIEFS, and expressing them as only they are true, right, and correct.
Discussions that start that way continue in debate and in 'arguments', which end up with
illogical disagreements, bickering, and fighting. However,
Discussions that start from a Truly OPEN perspective continue in learning and in 'arguments', which end up with
logically reasoned agreements, discoveries, and conclusions.
Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:41 pm
It would produce a better society to treat the world love as something that should be earned as much as felt.
What do you propose that a new born baby actually does to "earn love"?
Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:41 pm
We're far too feels-based today.
If 'you' are, then WHY are 'you'?
Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:41 pm
Even the most important and ineffable emotion can still be subject to rational consideration and can be improved or denigrated according to how it's practiced.
To me, there is absolutely NO thing that is "ineffable", including ALL emotions.
Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:41 pm
>IF people have different 'potentials', then what if someone's 'potential' is to be a "child killer", then you 'should' you stop loving them if they are not trying to live up to their potential? Or, should you 'love' them for not trying to live up to 'their potential'?
If you want to use potential in a general way, that's not the obviously positive definition i've been using here so far.
What does "if you 'want to' use potential in a 'general way', actually mean?
How many ways are there to use the word 'potential', and how is the way I used a, supposed, 'general way' to the way you are using that word?
How about from now on explaining how EXACTLY you are using the word 'potential' here?
What is the, so called, "positive" definition for the word 'potential' verses the so called, "negative" definition for the word 'potential'?
To me, words have a definition or definitions. Definitions, in and of themselves, are NOT negative NOR positive. Definitions are JUST, definitions.
So, until you actually CLARIFY how you are exactly using the word 'potential' here, then I will have NO way of KNOWING how you have been using that word, so far.
Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:41 pm
Now how about you provide some clarification about my clarifications?
SURE. When you ask some clarifying questions.
Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:41 pm
I'm sure i misinterpreted something you were asking somewhere along the line. <caveat c - assuming we're speaking the same language>
If you are so SURE that you misinterpreted something I was asking somewhere along the line, then why did you NOT clarify FIRST, BEFORE you replied?
Also, to me, something can be very easily or very simply 'misinterpreted' in a statement or proposition, (which by the way can be very simply and very easily clear up just through clarification), but, when I ask a question, then they are asked in a Truly OPEN perspective, and therefore with absolutely NO preconceived ideas. Therefore, my clarifying questions are usually EXTREMELY straightforward, and very simple and easy, and are just asking for what the words are actually asking for.
Also, what do you mean by 'same language'? Do you see what you might call "the english language"? If you do, then that is a great sign that we are using, and thus speaking, the same language.