Evolving philosophy

[Belinda]

I never cared for it much myself, but I can tolerate it if I have to. I cannot tolerate rap or hip hop. It's truly painful and mind-numbing and does more damage than drugs.

Is it the idiom itself , or is it the typical content of the idiom that offends? If it is the content alone that is offensive you could use the idiom as a medium for your own message.

for me: it sucks, as a package

I wonder if there is such a thing as a right wing rapper.

[henry quirk]

Is it the idiom itself , or is it the typical content of the idiom that offends? If it is the content alone that is offensive you could use the idiom as a medium for your own message.

for me: it sucks, as a package

I wonder if there is such a thing as a right wing rapper.

ted cruz comes to mind

[Belinda]

for me: it sucks, as a package

I wonder if there is such a thing as a right wing rapper.

ted cruz comes to mind

Interesting. I never set out to listen to rap and am not good at music since I became deaf. I have heard rap being belted out from young men's cars with the windows open but never managed to hear what the rapper was saying so rhythmically.

[henry quirk]

I wonder if there is such a thing as a right wing rapper.

ted cruz comes to mind

Interesting. I never set out to listen to rap and am not good at music since I became deaf. I have heard rap being belted out from young men's cars with the windows open but never managed to hear what the rapper was saying so rhythmically.

it's jungle bleating, all if it

tribalism

[Belinda]

ted cruz comes to mind

Interesting. I never set out to listen to rap and am not good at music since I became deaf. I have heard rap being belted out from young men's cars with the windows open but never managed to hear what the rapper was saying so rhythmically.

it's jungle bleating, all if it

tribalism

That was my reaction but I must be more broad minded

[henry quirk]

Interesting. I never set out to listen to rap and am not good at music since I became deaf. I have heard rap being belted out from young men's cars with the windows open but never managed to hear what the rapper was saying so rhythmically.

it's jungle bleating, all if it

tribalism

That was my reaction but I must be more broad minded

too broad the mind, too wide the gate into the mind

make the salesmen work hard: keep it narrow, like the eye of a needle

[RCSaunders]

Your lack of empathy is stunning.

You call turning young people into a bunch of paranoid freaks, afraid of every harsh word and disagreement, "empathy?"

How did you come up with that? Must your responses/conclusions be so extreme and distorted?

I'm afraid I must. It's not my fault. It's the society I was brought up in, how I was raised, how I was educated, and feelings I have that make me say and do those things. It's genetic, just the way I evolved. Have a little sympathy. [I do hope you don't take that seriously, but ...???]

I want every young person to have the ability to stand a look anyone in the eye and declare, I am a person and your opinion of me does not matter, and then go off and make something of themselves. I want them to be happy.

Well sure! But there's more going on than we can see from any single human perspective.

If you have your way, they'll never be anything more than quivering little victims terrified of everything the comes along, form the latest virus to the latest environmental catastrophe.

Again with the absurd extremism? It's so ridiculously dishonest! You know that, right?

Dishonest? Well, I suppose I could pretend my feelings mattered and that I'm only expressing my heart-felt compassion for others, but that really would be dishonest.

I'm a total radical for black and white. The ideal is always the best possible, not a compromise between good and evil. How much poison mixed with your food is OK. How much lie mixed with knowledge is OK. Grey is just a mixture of black and white and a failure to discern when what is right has been corrupted.

Wow. Thanks for expressing so well how distorted and limited your view is. There is no middle ground, for you, correct? It's either perfect and the absolute best (as you see it), or it's poisonous and bad. What the fuck are you doing on planet Earth with such a high and mighty opinion about how everything must be? Roll in the dirt a little... let your hair down... loosen up man. LOVE what is. Maybe even eventually see the perfection in what is!

You just can't help telling other people what to do, can you? That is the real difference in our view. All I've done is tell you what I believe is true, I'm not telling you what to believe or do. I'm only explaining what I see as the real-life consequence of, "rolling in the dirt," I'm not telling you not to do it. If you really believe my view is distorted or limited, that's my problem, isn't it. I have no idea why it bothers you so much. Believe, think, and do whatever you choose, I am no threat to you or your views, even if you think my expressing my own is.

No one can make someone else believe or think anything against their will

True! But don't we have a responsibility in not bombarding others with a bunch of crap? If we're honorable, that is.

Last time I checked, no one is forced to read anything I write or listen to anything I say. My only obligation in that area is to be polite and treat others as rational beings who are free to agree or disagree with anything I say.

But I'm not in charge of the big picture... I just do my best and have respect for the vast potential and connectivity I've noticed.

If you say so.

And I feel love more immediately, rather than hate.

Not sure how valuable your, "feelings," are to anyone. I hate no one, so never have feelings I would call, "hate." I love almost everyone I know, because I find something in them worth loving, and that love, when I'm well and nothing interferes with it, evokes feelings of love. But my love is not the feeling. I love my children. Even when they become so exasperating my feelings are nothing like love, I love them no less. But I do not love indiscriminately, like a whore. I do not love, "just anybody," both the my wife and the one who threatens to harm or rape her.

[Belinda]

it's jungle bleating, all if it

tribalism

That was my reaction but I must be more broad minded

too broad the mind, too wide the gate into the mind

make the salesmen work hard: keep it narrow, like the eye of a needle

Good

[seeds]

However, I would like to know what you would do if you were walking down the street and saw some god-awful brute sodomizing a 3 year old child (perhaps your own little girl) while holding a knife to her throat with a promise to cut her head off after he finishes pleasing himself?

No you wouldn't. Would you really be willing to base your social principles on what I'd do? Then why ask what I would do?

It is extremely unlikely that anything that any of us say to each other on these forums is going to have any effect on our deeply ingrained social principles, so please don’t use a nonsensical straw man argument as a way of avoiding the question.

And in regards to the question, keep in mind that it was you who stated the following:

It is always wrong to initiate the use of force, or the genuine threat of it....I would never use force...

In which case, I was simply exploring a means by which to test whether or not your “...I would never use force...” assertion has any exceptions.

If you are going use a hypothetical case, provide all the details.

Okay, if you want details in my little hypothetical thought experiment, then let’s start with your first question:

What possible reason would I be in a place where I might see such a thing?

You are there because you are walking home from a trip to a gun shop just around the corner where you just purchased a loaded .44 magnum pistol (Dirty Harry style) that you bought for your wife to use for protection due to recent events of there being a child-killing madman in your city who has already raped and murdered 5 children in your particular neighborhood.

Am I the only one there?

Yes.

Whose child is the 3 year old,...

The child is your own little girl.

...and how did the brute get him?

It’s a “her,” and he snatched her off of her tricycle as she was riding on the sidewalk in the front of your home.

And yes, it was a terrible idea to let her play outside with a madman on the loose, but your wife was keeping a close eye on her through the front window until the madman snuck in through the back door and strangled her.

(You did say that you wanted details.)

Is there a way to prevent the crime without anyone using force?

No.

What are my abilities?

You are a devoted father who knows how to point and shoot a pistol and would do absolutely anything to save your little girl.

If I happen to be tied up (the brute overpowered me first) there is nothing I can do.

You are not tied up.

If I'm a cripple there is nothing I can do.

You are not a cripple. In fact, you have the pistol pointed at the madman’s head – a madman who is already sodomizing your little girl and has flat-out told you that he is going to cut off her head when he finishes pleasing himself.

Furthermore, he also warned you that if you move one step closer he will immediately slit her throat with the knife being held to her jugular.

The bottom line is that what you do in the next 15 seconds is the only hope your little girl has of being saved.

Now Assuming that that’s enough details for you, while once again reminding you that it was you who said the following...

It is always wrong to initiate the use of force, or the genuine threat of it....I would never use force...

...what would you do?

(And please spare me your complaint about me picking the most unlikely and hideous situation I could think of, because I’m pretty sure I can think of something worse.)

So then, your “obvious solution” to the problem comes in the form of a crotchety old fart shaking his fist at the wind in a futile rant about the need to eliminate all political ideologies in the hope that all humans on earth...

(many of which actually enjoy committing barbarism, cruelty, and oppression on others)

...would then be able to “see the light.”

Go back and read what I wrote: There is no political solution.

No, RC, you said the following:

There are no social or political solutions to anything.

The word “social” can mean a lot of things other than political.

Furthermore, you made it clear that the only way the problems of the world will ever be resolved is if all formally arranged social and political institutions and processes are abandoned and then replaced with the utter nonsense of thinking that if humans are no longer constrained by formalized rules or laws,...

...then the world will simply transmogrify into some kind of utopian paradise where people like Trump, or Kim Jong-un, or Putin, or the Rothschild clan, or the world’s monarchs, etc., will no longer desire wealth, power, and control over other humans.

Now I respect and applaud your good intentions, but if you actually believe that in the context of a completely lawless world, that the greedy and stronger human animals on this planet would no longer take unfair advantage of the weaker humans, then you are deluding yourself with wishful thinking.
_______

[RCSaunders]

I know what human potential is, and it does sadden me some to see most of humanity squander their lives in the pursuit of that which can never satisfy them.

According to who?

Can you imagine that what they're doing is exactly the dance they came into this life to experience/do -- however herky-jerky it might appear -- and might THAT be a form of artwork? THEIR artwork. Not everyone appreciates/sees artwork in everything... but what if you did?

No. I believe every human being is a volitional being who must consciously choose everything he does, not some kind of marionettes performing some kind of unchosen, "dance."

[RCSaunders]

WHY do you claim that this is one's ONLY responsibility?

Because responsibility only pertains to choice.

But to be of real value and benefit to "others", as you talk about, then one would have to take note of their neighbors' lives and business, correct?

How could one be of real value and benefit to "another" if one kept out of their neighbor's life and business completely?

One is only responsible for what they can an do choose to do.

But people can accept and take responsibility for their past choices, correct?

If yes, then they can be responsible for their past choices, AS WELL.

Every individual has their own mind

This would depend on what the 'Mind' actually IS.

and must make their own choices and is responsible only for the choices they make.

At what age do you propose this happens at?

Okay.

Is this what you do?

If yes, then what did you learn, and what do you do?

You just can't help it, can you.

What does the 'it' here refer to, EXACTLY?

You cannot talk about anything without turning into some kind of personal thing.

I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHY you persist going down this line of thinking EVERY TIME I just ask you to CLARIFY what you say in regards to what you have learned and do do.

It is like you are 'trying' things to deflect away from just answering the clarifying question/s.

You are TELLING US that if we want to be of value to "others", then we MUST learn how, and then make the effort to actually produce a product or perform a service that will actually benefit people.

But if you can NOT or will NOT clarify and/or explain what 'it' is exactly, which you say we MUST learn, then we OBVIOUSLY will NOT be able to do what you say we MUST then make.

OBVIOUSLY, what you say we MUST learn, and then do, would the EXACT SAME thing for EVERY one. So, either you have learned 'this' (whatever that is) and are doing it "your" 'self', or you have NOT. Now, if you have, then WHY NOT share 'it' with us?

But if you have NOT YET learned 'it', and/or are NOT YET doing 'this', then HOW do you KNOW that we MUST learn 'this' AND do 'this'?

Quite frankly what I have done and produced are none of your business and totally irrelevant to the issue.

LOL So, you allege and claim WE MUST do the things you do, BUT then TELL US what you do IS IRRELEVANT.

Are you joking here?

I have lived my entire life by that principle and do not have to explain any of that to you.

You are CORRECT; You do NOT have to explain 'that', NOR explain absolutely ANY thing else to us. But, it appears to be extremely contradictory and/or hypocritical to TELL US what we MUST learn and do, but then CLAIM that you do NOT have to explain ANY of what we MUST learn and do to us.

Some would be concluding that you actually do NOT know what you are going on about here.

If you have SUPPOSEDLY lived your ENTIRE life by 'that' principle, which by the way is a complete IMPOSSIBILITY, and then TELL US that we MUST learn and do this as well, then INFORM US that you will NOT and do NOT have to explain ANY of 'that' principle to us some are CLEARLY SEEING is you NOT following and doing your OWN 'principle' at all. In fact, you are SHOWING and REVEALING that you have NOT learned 'that' principle at all.

SO, HOW does one make themselves free?

Or, are you going to HOLD BACK this information?

I'm sorry. I get paid for that kind of information and I do not think you really want to know. If you are willing to pay for a course in setting yourself free, I'll consider it.

LOL So, then you are CONSTRAINT by YOUR 'love-of-money', correct?

What has actually come-to-light here now, well from my perspective anyway, is you have come to a philosophy forum to TELL "others" that they MUST live a certain way, but then when just asked for clarity about what this way is and how we can learn 'it', then you INFORM US that we have to PAY for a course on 'it'.

I wonder if this is ALLOWED in such a forum as this one is.

By the way being Truly FREE is NEVER being a captive to a love for more money.

If people pay you money, for what is essentially FREE information, for a course in setting themselves free, then you AND them are BEING HELD 'more' captive than you ALREADY WERE.

By the way NEVER be sorry for what you choose to do. If you really are, then you are OBVIOUSLY NOT living a life well lived and NOT being of ANY real value NOR benefit to "others".

If you feel the need to apologize, then there is a Knowing that you are doing some thing WRONG, and thus abusive to others.

I might have taken the time to answer some of this, but you have made it clear you do not believe a single word you have written. So why should I?

[RCSaunders]

I hate that song...so...damn...much

I never cared for it much myself, but I can tolerate it if I have to. I cannot tolerate rap or hip hop. It's truly painful and mind-numbing and does more damage than drugs.

Is it the idiom itself , or is it the typical content of the idiom that offends? If it is the content alone that is offensive you could use the idiom as a medium for your own message.

What, "idiom?" It's just noise. If you've ever worked in a factory where machines make constant repeated painfully annoying meaningless sounds, that's "rap." There is something essentially wrong with intentionally abusing one's self with meaningless noise.

[RCSaunders]

That was my reaction but I must be more broad minded

too broad the mind, too wide the gate into the mind

make the salesmen work hard: keep it narrow, like the eye of a needle

Good

Ditto!

[RCSaunders]

too broad the mind, too wide the gate into the mind

make the salesmen work hard: keep it narrow, like the eye of a needle

Good

Ditto! (for Americans), Spot on! (for Brits)

[Belinda]

I never cared for it much myself, but I can tolerate it if I have to. I cannot tolerate rap or hip hop. It's truly painful and mind-numbing and does more damage than drugs.

Is it the idiom itself , or is it the typical content of the idiom that offends? If it is the content alone that is offensive you could use the idiom as a medium for your own message.

What, "idiom?" It's just noise. If you've ever worked in a factory where machines make constant repeated painfully annoying meaningless sounds, that's "rap." There is something essentially wrong with intentionally abusing one's self with meaningless noise.

But rhythm is the most important function of music.This is true historically and psychologically. Rhythm is more basic to music than pitch, melody, or harmony.

What is wrong with "intentionally abusing yourself"?