the proper balance between idealism and pragmatism

[RCSaunders]

Save the whales, too

I'd rather eat them

I'll eat almost anything, (and pretty much have) especially if it comes out of the ocean, but I cannot abide muscles (not even the seagulls will eat them) or whale meat. It tastes just like cod liver oil.

It's entirely a matter of personal taste. Some people I know say the enjoy it, and the Japanese love it. So I'm probably missing out on something, but I'll just have to live with it.

Have you actually eaten whale, Henry?

[henry quirk]

I'll eat almost anything

me too: I'm a proper omnivore

people is about the only thing not on my menu

but: if my plane crashes in the Andes...


Have you actually eaten whale, Henry?

not yet...never thought about it till Mannie brought 'em up

[Immanuel Can]

Have you actually eaten whale, Henry?

not yet...never thought about it till Mannie brought 'em up

Worst thing I ever ate: squid in its own ink. Unspeakable. Close second: pickled jellyfish. Tastes like slices of thin plastic.

But I hear that Icelandic rotting fish has them all beaten by a long stroke. Me, I'll never find out.

Surprise of the sea: smoked stingray. Quite delicious. Comparable to a union of fresh scallops and smoked salmon. Highly recommended.

[commonsense]

Have you actually eaten whale, Henry?

not yet...never thought about it till Mannie brought 'em up

Worst thing I ever ate: squid in its own ink. Unspeakable. Close second: pickled jellyfish. Tastes like slices of thin plastic.

But I hear that Icelandic rotting fish has them all beaten by a long stroke. Me, I'll never find out.

Surprise of the sea: smoked stingray. Quite delicious. Comparable to a union of fresh scallops and smoked salmon. Highly recommended.

I’ve eaten the Icelandic shark meat you mentioned. Icelanders claim that shark is poisonous to all peoples of the world except Icelanders. They say it is prepared by burying it on a sandy beach for a year. They mark the spot where it’s buried with a sign with the letters WC on it. It’s important to use those letters in order for the shark to reach its full flavor potential

[Immanuel Can]

I’ve eaten the Icelandic shark meat you mentioned. Icelanders claim that shark is poisonous to all peoples of the world except Icelanders. They say it is prepared by burying it on a sandy beach for a year. They mark the spot where it’s buried with a sign with the letters WC on it. It’s important to use those letters in order for the shark to reach its full flavor potential

And when they dig it up, I'm sure they're flushed with success, even though it's a meal they will soon put behind them.

[commonsense]

I’ve eaten the Icelandic shark meat you mentioned. Icelanders claim that shark is poisonous to all peoples of the world except Icelanders. They say it is prepared by burying it on a sandy beach for a year. They mark the spot where it’s buried with a sign with the letters WC on it. It’s important to use those letters in order for the shark to reach its full flavor potential

And when they dig it up, I'm sure they're flushed with success, even though it's a meal they will soon put behind them.

[Skepdick]

That’s just it—the system is “imposed” voluntarily when individuals opt in. Those individuals who at some time want to voluntarily opt out, as is their prerogative since they chose to volunteer, they are reminded that they could be forced to stay in. It is force, or the possibility of force, that compels them to stay.

As if those individuals forgot that one of the reasons humans opted in was safety in numbers.

Force or threat of force shouldn't scare you! Dangerous living was the default state of affairs before society.

Accept the risk, call the bluff and opt out.

[Skepdick]

There is no government that does not exist by force. One lie that is told to justify that agency of force is that is on behalf of the people, but of course the second any of the people would choose not to have that government they will discover what the force is for. In any country where there is a government, no one has a choice about whether they will be governed by the government or not.

Of course you do! You have a choice not to obey a government.

There is ALWAYS a choice. It's the consequences you are unhappy about.

The day you are born you are assigned a government birth certificate, and in most countries a government assigned number (SS in the United States, for example). The moment one begins to work and produce an income the government will take some of it away. You do not have any choice about taxes--they are not voluntary.

Then work on the black market? Start a cash business. Cheat on your taxes.

It's a choice.

Businesses and government are completely different things. A business must produce a product and service that others are willing exchange whatever wealth their own product efforts have produce for those products or services. They can only exist so long as what the produce is desired by potential customers and no one is obliged to buy any companies products or services.

A government produces nothing of value and can only expropriate what others have produced or use others to produce things (paid for with stolen, i.e. tax, money) and citizens are obliged or forced to accept what the government foists on them (like government education) whether they want it or not.

Yes. I know how to draw pointless distinctions too.

If businesses weren't valuable - people wouldn't start businesses.
If governments weren't valuable - people wouldn't start governments.

The free market figured both institutions are valuable in some way so they invented them. You seem to have a problem with free people doing things freely - like starting governments in which they see value.

What sort of system are you proposing where free people are prevented from forming governments?

Perhaps in clubs and recreational activities, but in fields of wealth production, every individual has their own objective

So every individual wants to produce wealth? That sure sounds like a shared objective!!!

, to provide a service (as when an employee, for example) or produce a product, (as a business owner, for example), in pursuit of their own income, each pursuing their own objective. Very few employees of most companies have any shared interest in either a company's purpose or others working in the that company they do not directly interface with. Why would they? So long as everyone is free to voluntarily participate in their part of any enterprise it will benefit everyone involved. No one needs to be part some socially cooperative effort toward some noble common purpose.

Of course nobody NEEDS to, but everybody DOES.

If you don't want poverty, then you are on-board with the common purpose of wealth-production.

Show me somebody who prefers poverty to wealth.

Obviously, but what's the point. They're all good so long as they are all voluntary.

You are flogging a dead horse.

Governments are voluntary! Free people voluntarily invented them.
Obeying laws is voluntary!

No business can force anyone to participate with them in any way, either as a worker or as a customer. Only governments can force people to do thing or not do things.

You don't understand what externalities are. Businesses don't exist in a vacuum. Doing business has side-effects.

Since a government produces nothing of value that anyone would willing pay for, to subsidize anything, a government must first confiscate (steal) wealth produce by those who do provide goods and services people willing pay for.

Lets not jump to such general conclusions. I find the services governments offer valuable - I pay my taxes voluntarily.

Only your taxes are stolen.

Any business that survives on government subsidies is essentially a crooked business supported by stolen money.

Schools aren't businesses. They are non-profits. Schools are not economically sustainable as businesses in rural areas. They depend on subsidies to exist.

Should country folk be denied education because your ideology?

[attofishpi]

Have you actually eaten whale, Henry?

not yet...never thought about it till Mannie brought 'em up

Worst thing I ever ate: squid in its own ink. Unspeakable. Close second: pickled jellyfish. Tastes like slices of thin plastic.

But I hear that Icelandic rotting fish has them all beaten by a long stroke. Me, I'll never find out.

Surprise of the sea: smoked stingray. Quite delicious. Comparable to a union of fresh scallops and smoked salmon. Highly recommended.

I’ve eaten the Icelandic shark meat you mentioned. Icelanders claim that shark is poisonous to all peoples of the world except Icelanders. They say it is prepared by burying it on a sandy beach for a year. They mark the spot where it’s buried with a sign with the letters WC on it. It’s important to use those letters in order for the shark to reach its full flavor potential

Shark is available in most fish n chip shops around here - it's called 'flake' - very nice.

[commonsense]

It might be ideal for everyone to live together in peace and harmony by welcoming every asylum-seeker into our country. Yet pragmatically, there’s a limit to resources available to go around for everyone.

So, where’s the balance? Limiting admissions to what our resources can absorb? How would you define that limit?

[henry quirk]

the one silver lining of beer virus is a lotta folks have come to see certain necessities as sumthin' less than neccessary

formal education (organized, in brick & mortar) is one of those unnecessary things

here, my kid's school let out a month early (march) cuz of beer virus and is scheduled to re-open a full month later than normal (on sept 8th)

for the past five months: the kid & me spend some part of each day 'in school' (reading, math, history, civics, writing, etc.)

as I say in another thread: I'm no teacher (not in inclination or training) but I reckon I'm not half-bad at it

my point: brick & mortar, regimented classrooms are not the only way to teach & learn and aren't even necessarily the best way to teach & learn...mebbe it's time to re-think them subsidized institutions

[henry quirk]

It might be ideal for everyone to live together in peace and harmony by welcoming every asylum-seeker into our country. Yet pragmatically, there’s a limit to resources available to go around for everyone.

So, where’s the balance? Limiting admissions to what our resources can absorb? How would you define that limit?

as I say elsewhere: I'm all for open borders but not with a welfare state in place

entitlements make up nearly half of the federal budget in the u.s., entitlements that are easy to access by anyone, includin' refugees & illegals

[RCSaunders]

Should country folk be denied education because your ideology?

What, "ideology," is that? I have no social or political ideology. I regard all such ideologies as, at best, mistaken, and in practice, malevolent. I'm only pointing out how absurd any view of making societies what anyone thinks they ought to be are, and how dangerously harmful they are to actual individual human beings, as a warning to those who are really interested in making something of their lives.

[Skepdick]

What, "ideology," is that? I have no social or political ideology. I regard all such ideologies as, at best, mistaken, and in practice, malevolent. I'm only pointing out how absurd any view of making societies what anyone thinks they ought to be are, and how dangerously harmful they are to actual individual human beings, as a warning to those who are really interested in making something of their lives.

The ideology which concludes that subsidising rural schools (which are otherwise economically infeasible) with taxes is "malevolent", "absurd" and "harmful".

You don't think denying education to individuals is harmful to individuals?

[RCSaunders]

the one silver lining of beer virus is a lotta folks have come to see certain necessities as sumthin' less than neccessary

formal education (organized, in brick & mortar) is one of those unnecessary things

here, my kid's school let out a month early (march) cuz of beer virus and is scheduled to re-open a full month later than normal (on sept 8th)

for the past five months: the kid & me spend some part of each day 'in school' (reading, math, history, civics, writing, etc.)

as I say in another thread: I'm no teacher (not in inclination or training) but I reckon I'm not half-bad at it

my point: brick & mortar, regimented classrooms are not the only way to teach & learn and aren't even necessarily the best way to teach & learn...mebbe it's time to re-think them subsidized institutions

The idea of a government-provided education was never part of American thinking until Horace Mann learned it from the Prussians and brought to this country. That idea of education was to make "useful citizens," for the state. It was never about providing individuals with the ability to think for themselves and be free, productive individuals.

It is understandable why socialists and collectivists despise the home school movement in this country, because it proves the lie that education requires the government to provide it. With regard to so-called, "educators," who's income is provided by money extorted from others, Shaw was right, "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach."