Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:29 pm
RCSaunders wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:19 pm
What you describe is exactly what has happened. In spite of all attempts to control speech communism/socialism are being voted in everywhere.
I have no use for any political system and regard them all as evil. Intellectually, I am opposed to them all.
OK.
RCSaunders wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:19 pm
I do not trust in any system or agency to produce outcomes of any kind, except bad ones.
So you believe all systems produce bad outcomes ?
Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:29 pm
RCSaunders wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:19 pm
I trust only in what I can choose and do working with those whom I personally can trust and do business with and relate to socially to produce any outcomes that matter to me or them.
You just described a political system. People self-organizing to achieve common goals that matter to them.
A small-scale system, but a political system none the less.
Would you say the outcomes of your small-scale political system are bad?
Fair question. What I mean by a political, "system," is a system imposed by force, what is normally called a, "state," or, "government." I do not regard totally voluntary behavior of individuals, even when it involves a great deal of organization, as a political system.
Now I have no objection to you calling that a, "political system," because technically it is what politics ought to be, how individuals relate to one another in a society, but that is not what is usually meant, I think, by a political system.
Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:29 pm
RCSaunders wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:19 pm
No system is going to produce some kind of world or society one likes and the worst horrors ever visited on human beings have been the result of such systems.
Then why do you form business institutions?
I do not recall saying I did. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by business, "institutions," but if you are referring to, "corporations," those are only possible in the context of a government or state. Individuals cannot just decide to call their business a corporation (meaning they are protected from personal responsibility for what their company does).
If you mean by business, "institutions," the facilities for doing business, how else would individuals be able to produce most of the products of this world without factories, or store the products without warehouses, or ship them without trucks and railroads, or sell them without stores? How would you get your car filled with gas without gas stations, or your car repaired without repair garages? So long as every participant in any enterprise does so voluntarily they benefit everyone. What could be wrong with that?
Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:29 pm
RCSaunders wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:19 pm
I do not oppose, except in principle, any political system. I am apolitical, not anti-political. Work for and have any political system you believe in and can manage to implement; it's not going to work but it's your life and emotional and physical energy you'll have to spend on it, not mine. I'll not fight you, but I certainly will not part of it and will live as I choose in spite of any system.
Why do you believe that your institutions are going to work if you are so cynical about the institutions of others?
Private businesses in which everyone is voluntarily a participant can only work so long every individual, worker or customer, is satified their association with that business is to their own benefit. If the business exists, it is because it is working to satisfy everyone involved, if it is not working, it will cease to exist. Only businesses subsidized and controlled by a government can exist without being benevolent.