Evolving philosophy

[Age]

The reason that 'you', "your" 'self', are so CLOSED is, as I continually point out, because of your ALREADY firmly HELD ONTO and fixed BELIEFS.

And as I continually point out to you, you don't know what you're talking about in regard to me.

And as I continually point out to you; I would NOT be so sure of your BELIEFS.

So please fuck off with your dumbass analysis and delusional conclusions.

LOL

Your response here speaks volumes in regards to what I have pointed out ABOUT 'you'.

[Age]

Maybe .../... or maybe .../... Or, maybe .../... Or, maybe ...

Maybe you don't know what you're talking about.

Or maybe I am just remaining OPEN. Or maybe I just providing you something to think about and consider instead of you just remaining transfixed on those already held BELIEFS of yours?

Not interested in your distorted beliefs and conclusions, Age.

This REVEALS and PROVES just how CLOSED you TRULY ARE.

[Age]

The reason that 'you', "your" 'self', are so CLOSED is, as I continually point out, because of your ALREADY firmly HELD ONTO and fixed BELIEFS.

And as I continually point out to you, you don't know what you're talking about in regard to me. So please fuck off with your dumbass analysis and delusional conclusions.

We don't agree on much, Lacewing, but I certainly empathize (can't believe I used that word) with you here. The tendency of so many on this board to psychologize, read other's minds, and know exactly what others think and believe can be infuriating. I doubt Age will get it, though.

And here is ANOTHER example of ANOTHER 'one' making ASSUMPTIONS, which are completely and utterly WRONG.

The only " talking about in regards to that 'one' " COMES FROM the actual words that that 'one' uses.

So, I can back up and support EVERY thing that I have said 'in regards to that 'one' and what they think and believe, LITERALLY, through 'their' OWN words. So, the EVIDENCE and PROOF I HAVE is in 'their' OWN words.

By the way, infuriating 'you', adult human beings, is about the most simplest and easiest thing to do. This is just because of HOW the Mind and the brain actually work.

The REASON WHY 'you', adult human beings, become so easily infuriated is because 'you' can NOT soundly and validly argue against and refute what I actually say, and mean.

[Age]

Despite straw men set up by RCSaunders, I will keep on topic. It's hardly a conspiracy theory that schools exclusively for rich people tend to perpetuate class division , and tend to frustrate social mobility.

There is very little difference between those who view human beings in terms of race, ethnicity, "gender," or class, or any other way of ranking individuals in terms of some group one assigns them to. It is that collectivist view of humanity that perpetuates divisions. Until human beings begin to view other human beings as individuals, not in terms of which clan or group or class or category they belong to, your dream of a classless society are impossible.

But I don't dream of a classless society that's another straw man of your own making. My vote goes to politicians who improve education by removing schools that are too expensive for any but a rich elite; providing tertiary education for all; and providing quality nursery education where children learn through play.

But this then just grooms children to grow up how the politicians and/or governments want them to be.

See, 'you', adult human beings, have ALL been groomed and abused as children, and ALL of 'you', adult human beings are doing the EXACT SAME thing now to children. But 'you' are ALL TOO BLIND to SEE and ACCEPT this Truth.

ALL of 'you' were forced to think and behave certain ways, and now, in the days of when this is being written, force thought control onto children, unknowingly.

The oppressed are now the oppressors. BUT, 'you' ALL 'think' that this is NOT TRUE, which was and is just a part of the 'grooming' process. SEE, 'the devil' is in the detail. Which, by the way, CAN BE very easily explained and understood very simply.

[Age]

Everyone is different and there is no, "one way," everyone must think, believe, choose, and live, which is what is wrong with every political ideology which would foist its views on everyone.

Agreed. I would replace the word "political" with the word "any", because I think this applies to religious and cultural ideologies as well.

Well what can be CLEARLY SEEN here is that this thread was created from the perspective of foisting one's own views and ideologies onto "others".

As EVIDENCED and PROVEN above.

I only want every individual to be able to live their own life without anyone else forcing them to do or not do anything.

Sounds good. What is actually considered force, though? We are all subjected to controlling influences that seek to change the way we think, believe, choose, and live. It can happen through a relentless onslaught of coercion, intimidation, ridicule, condemnation, judgments, distortions, etc. -- all for the purpose of defining and/or controlling how things are or should be... based on a particular viewpoint.

As EVIDENCED and PROVEN above.

[Age]

But I don't dream of a classless society that's another straw man of your own making.

My mistake. If you believe individuals should be assigned to different classes, that's fine. I don't.

My vote goes to politicians who improve education by removing schools that are too expensive for any but a rich elite; providing tertiary education for all; and providing quality nursery education where children learn through play.

I don't want anybody's money taken from them to pay for the education of anyone else or their children. It makes no difference at all to me how much a school costs so long as one pays for it with money they have earned, not confiscated by force from others.

It is really dishonest of you to try to put words in my mouth. I am not guilty of the opinions you impute to me.
Very expensive fee paying schools cannot help but school only the children of rich parents.

Unless, of course, they take in and accept some children of 'poor' parents.

So such schools help to perpetuate the class system where there is little possibility for individuals to better themselves by getting better educated.

But where is the actual correlation between paying more money and being better educated?

If this was true, then removing schools that are 'too expensive' (whatever that would actually mean) and providing tertiary education for all, would then make less educated people, overall.

By the way, 'getting better educated' does NOT, and I repeat does NOT, need money at all. The ONLY reason education 'costs money' is because the people who teach are just GREEDY.

To educate is actually FREE. So, it actually costs absolutely NOTHING to teach. Teachers and education systems, unfortunately though, charge FEES. Absolutely EXORBITANT fees I will add.

When these expensive schools such as Eton are removed then the closed club of old Etonians will also disappear, and our political leaders and legislators will be drawn from a wider set of individuals than the narrow set of those who inherit wealth from their parents.

[Age]

Everyone is different and there is no, "one way," everyone must think, believe, choose, and live, which is what is wrong with every political ideology which would foist its views on everyone. I only want every individual to be able to live their own life without anyone else forcing them to do or not do anything.

me too: that's why I advocate for a chartered, natural rights minarchy

We agree to the same principle, we disagree about, "implementation."

*I believe only individuals can make themselves free, **you believe some kind of collective system can do it, but it doesn't matter ***so long as neither of us wants to force our view on the other. I wish you success in whatever you pursue.

*individuals are naturally free

**the chartered natural rights minarchy (not a system or collective) would exist to preserve and further that

***

HOW?

Through some sort of legislation, law, system, judgement, and/or punishment? Or, through some other source?

[Age]

And you know this absolutely.

Sure!

Saying, "absolute knowledge is impossible", is expressing a knowledge as though it is absolutely true, which it could be said is actually 'absolute knowledge', itself. So, an extremely contradictory statement and thing to say.

Okay. According to my epistemologocal perspective absolute knowledge is impossible.

From your perspective, what does 'epistemological perspective' mean, exactly?

Also, could 'absolute knowledge' be possible, at all, to you?

[Age]

Okay. According to my epistemologocal perspective absolute knowledge is impossible.

Just out of curiosity, because I have no intention of arguing about it, what do you mean by, "absolute knowledge." The reason I'm asking is because, what I mean by absolute knowledge is only, "certain knowledge," by which I mean knowledge I cannot doubt, such as my knowledge that I am alive and that I am conscious.

To have knowledge which you cannot doubt, such as; 'I am alive', and, 'I am conscious' implies there is a 'knowing' or a 'certain (without doubt) knowledge' (from your perspective) of who the 'I' is, exactly. So, is there a 'certain (without doubt) knowledge' of 'Who am 'I'?'

If yes, then what is that knowledge/answer?

I am also certain there is heavier than air human flight and that radio signals can be transmitted around the world and even to the planets.

Some people seem to mean something more than just, "certain knowledge," as though to know anything about something they must know everything about it. For example, "you can never know absolutely what an apple is because you never know everything there is to know about it."

Of course you may have even another view of what you mean by absolute knowledge. I know some theists who believe all knowledge is doubtful and that only omniscience is absolute knowledge. I think you can see why what you mean by absolute knowledge is not obvious.

Now, I like this CLARIFYING, through, QUESTIONING here. As this leads to learning more and/or anew and to 'understanding', itself. This type of behaving SHOWN here REVEALS an OPENNESS, which is great to watch and to aspire to, as well.

What can be gained from this is that absolutely EVERY thing is just relative to an observer and their perspective of things, which is WHY EVERY one has DIFFERENT views and perspectives of things, and is WHY it has been illogical for ALL 'you', human beings, throughout ALL of human history to say or imply things as though you KNOW what thee actual Truth IS.

[henry quirk]

We agree to the same principle, we disagree about, "implementation."

*I believe only individuals can make themselves free, **you believe some kind of collective system can do it, but it doesn't matter ***so long as neither of us wants to force our view on the other. I wish you success in whatever you pursue.

*individuals are naturally free

**the chartered natural rights minarchy (not a system or collective) would exist to preserve and further that

***

HOW?

Through some sort of legislation, law, system, judgement, and/or punishment? Or, through some other source?

blood oaths, sworn under a full moon

[RCSaunders]

Everyone is different and there is no, "one way," everyone must think, believe, choose, and live, which is what is wrong with every political ideology which would foist its views on everyone.

Agreed. I would replace the word "political" with the word "any", because I think this applies to religious and cultural ideologies as well.

Of course! Every individual has their own mind and must use it to learn, think, and make their own choices about what to think, believe and do in every area of life.

I only want every individual to be able to live their own life without anyone else forcing them to do or not do anything.

Sounds good. What is actually considered force, though?

By force I mean that direct use of physical force, or realistic threat of physical force, against any individual's person, property, or those of immediately personal interest to them (e.g. loved ones).

We are all subjected to controlling influences that seek to change the way we think, believe, choose, and live. It can happen through a relentless onslaught of coercion, intimidation, ridicule, condemnation, judgments, distortions, etc. -- all for the purpose of defining and/or controlling how things are or should be... based on a particular viewpoint.

You've mixed up coercion and intimidation (force and threats of it) with other's words, which can do no harm to anyone who simply refuses to listen to them. You could save half the misery of the current generation by teaching them what all young children were taught when I was young, "sticks and stones can break my bones but name can never hurt me."

Anyone who is intimidated by anyone else's words, opinions, ridicule, condemnation, or judgments, even lies about them, has a personal problem with their own self-assurance and integrity. Half the problems of the word would go away if people weren''t such thin-skinned wimps. Those who know who and what they are, why they believe what they believe, and are living as well as they possibly can really do not give a damn what anyone else thinks, believes, or says, about themselves, or anything else, and are certainly not threatened by anyone else's opinions about anything.

[Lacewing]

You may stand in the midst of all of that, and choose the enemies you feel it worthy to rage against, and encourage others to focus like you do. But truly, who decides... for everyone... what the perspective should be?

The answer to this is OBVIOUS.

So, when you think the answer is OBVIOUS, you state that as if it needs to be stated... and say nothing more.

Does that mean you think the answer ISN'T obvious when you, instead, babble on and on with all of your made-up crap?

Your supposed inability to communicate better is a front for the limitations/distortions of your thinking. What goes on in your head in regard to other people (what YOU interpret and project and conclude about them) is YOUR thinking. Repeatedly, it's not true nor perceptive -- and it even appears delusional based on the amount of effort and false claims you put into. It's your nonsense that doesn't matter to anyone else.

[RCSaunders]

My vote goes to politicians who improve education by removing schools that are too expensive for any but a rich elite; providing tertiary education for all; and providing quality nursery education where children learn through play.

I don't want anybody's money taken from them to pay for the education of anyone else or their children. It makes no difference at all to me how much a school costs so long as one pays for it with money they have earned, not confiscated by force from others.

It is really dishonest of you to try to put words in my mouth. I am not guilty of the opinions you impute to me.

What planet are you from? On this planet the only way, politician "provide," anything is by first confiscating it from the tax payers to fund their so-called provisions. You think politicians provide anything with their own money? You cannot disguise the fact that what you would vote for is the use of tax money to provide what you would like, and you can't have tax money without taking it away for people by force or intimidation.

[RCSaunders]

*individuals are naturally free

**the chartered natural rights minarchy (not a system or collective) would exist to preserve and further that

***

HOW?

Through some sort of legislation, law, system, judgement, and/or punishment? Or, through some other source?

blood oaths, sworn under a full moon

Sublety, satire, and nuance are totally wasted here.

[Lacewing]

You could save half the misery of the current generation by teaching them what all young children were taught when I was young, "sticks and stones can break my bones but name can never hurt me."

What about people who didn't have your upbringing? What about children who were beaten down continually? Are they supposed to magically know otherwise?

And who is supposed to do the teaching? Who ensures that such teaching is made available?

You make it sound so simple... but is it?

Anyone who is intimidated by anyone else's words, opinions, ridicule, condemnation, or judgments, even lies about them, has a personal problem with their own self-assurance and integrity. Half the problems of the word would go away if people weren''t such thin-skinned wimps.

Your lack of empathy is stunning.

Those who know who and what they are, why they believe what they believe, and are living as well as they possibly can really do not give a damn what anyone else thinks, believes, or says, about themselves, or anything else, and are certainly not threatened by anyone else's opinions about anything.

Well, again, this is rather extreme. You appear to be someone who thinks things are black and white, this or that -- whereas I think there are many colors and variations and factors (how could there NOT be?). Being of the black and white model, you can claim to know what is and should be, and you can associate yourself with the best as you see it, and show disdain for those who are not. Do you see that?

But maybe your experience/outcome is not the only possibility?

I don't think "force" has to be physical. People can be (and are) influenced and directed and enslaved (and attacked) to their detriment by more powerful, devious, or ignorant influences and forces all the time. They can be deceived/misled into thinking they're smart or free or safe to go down a certain path that is not actually any of those things. If we only consider physical force as a threat to guard against, we fail to recognize the impact of, and take accountability for, all of the toxic manipulation and deception and ignorance being used and imposed on people. It's real and it threatens freedom and security too.